Why is it up to the rest of us to protect those who choose to not get vaccinated?! Pitch in people!
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Thereās a strong socio-political component to mask-wearing decisions that goes well beyond the science, on both ends of the divide. The governor of Massachusetts (an old-fashioned truly moderate New England Republican) lifted the stateās outdoor mask mandate recently, following the CDC guidance, but my town has kept its mandate in place. That really canāt be for much of a reason besides political signaling. The mask I put on while taking my garbage cans to the curb doesnāt protect anyone from anything, but it reassures people across the street or driving by that Iām not one of those people. Itās not a big deal to me ā Iām not at all an anti-masker, and modeling safe behavior can be beneficial even when thereās no practical advantage. But I find it a bit overdone.
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of course, modeling safe behavior with no practical advantage can be a disincentive to vaccinations. It also throws shade on āthe scienceā. If your Mayor would come out and say, as soon as we get to 70% vax rate (or whatever %), we can be eliminate the mask mandate outdoors. Otherwise, it can feed vax reluctance.
In the past week or so, Iāve seen PSAās on the local SoCal TV stations for people to mask up. The actors(?) even say that they double mask to go on a bike ride even tho they are fully vaccinated. If true, how does that incentivize folks to go get vaccinated?
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The science isnāt shadedāitās been sucked into a black hole. If you followed CDC all along by now if youāve had the vaccine then you can ditch your mask. If you havenāt had a vaccine and donāt want to wear oneāwell, thatās up to you. If you want to wear a mask for the rest of your life (I probably will during flu season at least) thatās up to you also.
We can go outside and be 3 feet apart. No need for mask.
So thatās great. But in some areas of the country they act like science doesnāt mean anything and itās looking more like politics than anything else thatās keeping people in lockdowns.
Kids were never known to be a vectorāhere comes my rant if you prefer to not readā¦
And now Fauci comes out with draconian rules for summer camps for kids which absolutely defies all the science. Masks outside all the time. Not one mask but two. Black hole time. And I personally think borders on child abuse. No science backs him up.
Fortunately I donāt have kids living this but I spent time underneath my elementary school desk wondering how it would protect me if the bomb hit us. I remember that clearly.
We now get a generation of kids who will be fearing their death by the very air we breathe and getting close to someone else. Theyāve spent at least a solid year with basically no interaction with friends and schoolmates. Itās hard on everyone but especially the youngest.
Babies mimic facial expressions and I donāt think that ever really stopsāitās part of emotional development to learn to read others expressions way beyond infancy. Mom with her mask on talking to kids is not a good look. Masks can stunt emotional growth. Masks hinder clear communication, masks can hinder speech development.
A mask is not a badge of honor to be lauded. Itās needed when actually needed and then to be discarded. Sorry for the mini rant.
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Good point. Supposedly the town medical board is reviewing the situation and will have a new policy decision soon, so it might not be an issue much longer. But yes, the messaging overall is a bit confused.
Are/were these outdoor mask requirements general outdoor mask requirements, or requirements only for specific situations (e.g. crowded areas where social distancing cannot be maintained, waiting in line, etc.)?
Over the past year, I have found that state and local health orders are often greatly misinterpreted by both the media and the general public, since they may not be willing to read more than the first 140 characters of it, resulting in missing important conditionals.
I believe the previous Massachusetts order (like the continuing Brookline order) was a general requirement that masks be worn when outdoors in public, because the new state order still requires masks outdoors when social distancing canāt be maintained. In practice, Iām not aware of any real enforcement when people are out running or biking alone, but you almost never see people walking around the center of town without a mask, regardless of the immediate density.
Very tough on the kids, my 18 month old grandson is definitely overly attached to Mom, unhappy to see her paying attention to cousins on a long awaited visit. I am sure much of that is all this isolation.
Actually, those were not Fauciās rules but the CDCās guidelines. This is what Fauci said about them:
I wouldnāt call them excessive, but they certainly are conservative.
The CDC makes decisions based on science, they will continually reevaluate that. Youāre right, it looks a bit strict, a bit stringent, but thatās the reason why they keep looking at that and trying to reevaluate literally in real time whether or not thatās the practical way to go.
Sure enough, CDC director Dr. Rachel Walensky said yesterday that vaccinated kids do not have to wear masks outside at summer camp. She said that āthe agencyās guidance was intended to prevent a repeat of virus outbreaks last year that were traced to summer camps. Unvaccinated, unmasked children who engage in close-contact sports like soccer are at risk of transmitting the virus even when outdoors.ā
White House pandemic advisor Andy Slavitt said, āWe know that kids want to go to camp this summer,ā he said. āWe know that parents want them to be safe. If they want that done without masks, vaccinations are the best answer.ā
Word is that the Pfizer vaccine will be approved for ages 12-15 on Tuesday. I will make an appointment for my 15 year old ASAP. Iām psyched that he can go to camp without a mask, but Iām even more psyched that heāll have protection from Covid and wonāt be a potential spreader.
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āI wouldnāt call them excessiveā. Oh yes they are big time. Nobody without a monetary or political goal would have even suggested them. Itās only the huge immediate pushback that has made any difference.
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Thatās a quote from Fauci, not me. My point was that Fauci pointed out that the CDC guidelines are a work in progress. Iām not sure why anyone needed to get upset about them as we are still a month away from summer camp.
Also, I do not think it is excessive for the CDC to recommend that unvaccinated children wear masks when transmission of the virus is likely, such as when:
playing contact sports
singing, chanting, or cheering in a crowd
unable to maintain distance
inside
Summer camps must comply with local and state regulations, but the CDC guidance is suggestion. If summer camps want to avoid large outbreaks of Covid, they will likely follow a lot of those suggestions.
Kids themselves, from my observations, adapt quickly to masks. If wearing masks, playing outside, or maintaining distance is whatās necessary to be with their friends, they will do it. Itās great also to have cohorts of kids with whom masking and distancing is not necessary, like those in your friend-bubble, class, or cabin at camp.
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I was looking on Amazon and a book came up that was definitely aimed at the vaccine reluctant/non vaccine. In reading reviews it was clear the people that read the book already werenāt going to get the vaccine or in some cases donāt believe in Covid. All I could think of is that there are many āexpertsā who are making money over pandering to an audience to tell them what they want to hear. The consumers think they are well informed and are being good consumers of information, but the information is one sided and has an agenda. Meanwhile those that are selling these things are laughing all the way to the bank.
There are people on the other side as well who are making money from this- big money. My vaccine reluctant friends point that out. Itās true, but without the vaccine, how do we end this???
People have built their own echo chamber. Need validation? Itās right at your fingertips. Never mind that that validation gets money for every clickā¦ I really hate the internet sometimes.
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Epidemiology is far from a precise science. Thereās still a lot we donāt know about the novel coronavirus and its evolution. No one can speak with certainty now, or perhaps ever.
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Firstā¦I know that was Fauci and not you. Sorry if it was otherwise implied.
Secondā¦it is excessive for CDC to recommend that kids wear double masks outside. Or inside. With no science nor studies to back it up. And to teach kids to to accept arbitrary rules with no backing is not acceptable.
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We tell kids daily to accept arbitrary rules- itās called a dress code. I hate the dress code, but kids have to follow it. They see masks the same way, just a part of the dress code. I think we adults have way more problems with the mask. I hate mine, except the allergy and skiing part- might keep it for that!
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Oh, time to stop reading this thread. I have had to delete several possible responses just now.
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@Vineyarder, I have been in a town adjacent to Brookline for the last week. I have been walking daily, and rarely do I see anybody not masked. I donāt mind that I have been wearing mine with being a block away from people. My wearing mine says I respect your health, as I appreciate others doing the same for me.
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Right. Itās symbolic, not practical, since a bare face a block away is exactly as respectful of oneās actual health as a masked one. Eventually weāll get past needing to signal the thing weāre signaling with the symbolism, but weāre not there yet.
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Exactly. And this area is full with Dr.s and all medical personnel, so I dont see outdoor masks going away anytime soon.
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