Condolences on your uncle, but she did not kill him, a virus did.
Your uncle took a risk, including the risk that others would not be masked in a place where he was. Depending on his age, it does appear that he was very unlucky. Fatality rates do not get to even 1% until about age 70.
Our ability to respond to the virus has been quite different for months now than it was at the beginning. And many at the beginning - particularly the elderly - who died did so due to the negligence of long-term care and other facilities or the state policies allowing them exposure to the infected. It was no different here; MN was one of the worst offenders throughout most of 2020 when it came to killing our elderly. Thatâs not because humans werenât smarter than the virus, however - it was due to making poor choices about the most vulnerable.
Iâm so sorry to hear about your BIL and friend.
Thatâs like saying that a drunk driver didnât kill somebody, the car did, or the alcohol did.
That makes absolutely no sense. It was humans who made those choices for the elderly that put them at risk. Across the country, in many states at many elderly living facilities. So using your logic, the humans made bad (non-smart) decisions and the virus apparently outsmarted the humans.
Thatâs my quota of answering or debating content that is never going to be agreed on here for today.
From the CDC website:
More than 310 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through June 14, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 5,343 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if itâs unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse eventâblood clots with low plateletsâwhich has caused deaths.
During roughly (this number includes all of December) the same time period, 303,561 Americans died from covid.
5543/310,000,000 = 0.0017%. That assumes a correlation between ALL reported deaths and the vaccine.
303,561/332,000,000 Americans = 0.091% off the total population dead in 6 months
Death Rate of adults: 303,401/258,960,000 = 0.12%
Death Rate adults age 40+ : 292,570/162,000,000 = 0.18%
Death Rate Adults 50-74: 119,017/94,410,000 = 0.13% (probably most of us here are in that range)
Even if you believe all 5500+ of the deaths reported to VAER were caused by the vaccine (they werenât) your chance of getting and dying from Covid are 50+ times higher. Roll the dice.
Iâm betting virtually everyone (who believed Covid is actually a thing) who has died since December also believed they were doing everything rightâincluding those who were doctors and nurses.
It is happening and I assume itâs being reported to VAERS or that those getting medical attention can rely on their medical provider to assist with that. The health system I referenced is a well known one in a well-populated area. In a blue state, in case you were wondering. Just because you arenât hearing of this now doesnât mean that you wonât hear eventually. the myocarditis was well known anecdotally before CDC started looking into it.
I also agree that the large number of AMA docs being vaccinated is a testament to their own confidence in the vaccine vs. getting Covid. Iâve spoken to my own doctors about the issue and they are having their families vaccinated as well. One in particular is from a large birth family and Covid swept through that household with one elderly parent in the hospital, etc. In their case they thought being out in the country would protect them, but of course all it takes is one family member to bring it into the house . . .
Unfortunately the vaccine-enthusiastic are also reaction-deniers who refuse to acknowledge that complications can exist. Indeed they can and they do. It will take time to sort it all out so we understand genuinely what is going on. That doesnât mean the vaccine isnât a good idea overall and we need to be careful not to attribute stuff that would have happened anyway to the Covid vaccine. But itâs not helpful if, for instance, someone was knocked out flat for over a week - missed work, etc. - or ended up at ER for chest pain and several days of tests - or is experiencing swollen neck glands still (several weeks after the first dose) to pooh pooh these occurrences or - worse! - deny they are genuine. They are over and above what youâd normally expect from a vaccine - you do realize that most have had some experience with vaccines, right? - and each required medical attention. No other reason could be found so common sense points to the vaccine as a catalyst for whatever weird and alarming thing happened for a few days (or longer).
Hopefully no one here has questioned someoneâs horrible time with Covid. Those having a bad time with the vaccine deserve some of the same courtesy.
MODERATORâS NOTE: leftcoasthope has been suspended because the account is a multiple registration of a banned account (the same person who derailed the original COVID thread last year).
I think the last paragraph of your post is the best proof that we arenât smarter.
They made bad decisions. They may have been smart or unsmart depending on how much those at-risk populations mattered to the decision makers. That humans are smarter than the virus doesnât mean humans arenât capable and even willing to make some pretty bad decisions. Remember the context: we are discussing whether everyone who can MUST be vaccinated, or whether itâs possible to avoid it using common sense. As many have been able to do just that long before a vaccine was available, Iâd argue that itâs still the case using common sense will outsmart the virus. BTW, a big part of that common sense would be to protect the most vulnerable.
I am a vaccine enthusiast and not a reaction denier. I havenât seen anyone here deny that there can be complications.
How so?
I assume you are very pro-gun control since people donât kill people, guns do - using your reasoning. In reality, if she, being symptomatic, had not gone out to eat at the same restaurant that day then chances are my uncle would still be alive.
Yes, my uncle took a risk. He assumed that other humans would be reasonable and take precautions. His story is a good reminder for anyone reading that itâs a bad assumption to make. Many people donât give a hoot about others.
Your statement is totally illogical. Itâs like saying weâre smarter than cancer. Thereâs not even a way to refute it, itâs so nonsensical. As Iâve said many times, the scientific illiteracy in this country is staggering and frightening.
The problem with the story about the lady coughing near the uncle is there is zero proof that the lady had covid. The uncle could have gotten covid from hundreds/thousands of other people that he potentially came into contact with. Perhaps it was even a person wearing a mask that passed on covid to him. So why are we blaming this person or comparing it too someone driving drink (not wearing a mask)? Perhaps it was a person following the rules but the virus still transmitted (sober driver). The person that infected the uncle could also have been asymptomatic. We will never really know.
Shocking that there are people intentionally trying to rile up the good posters here! 
There isnât anyone I know who denies that reactions exist for some people. They often get the vax prepared to be âoutâ for a few days and are thankful if they donât have to be. They just know their odds are better with the vax than the disease.
Workplaces around here also usually allow people to be out for a few days post vaccine knowing reactions can be common. Women I know have been told to postpone getting mammograms for 6 weeks post vaccine due to potential for harmless lumps that will go away, but would mess up the scan.
I too was worried that I would get the side effects since I was hit hard by both Shingrix shots, but the vaccine was worth it IMO. Fortunately for me, effects from Covid - outside of a sore arm - never happened. Iâm thankful, esp since my blood was later tested for antibodies and I have them!
I know, can you imagine? Trying to keep this thread goingâŠ
Nobody is denying that some people react to vaccines. We are simply pointing out the vast discrepancy between that actual reaction rate, and the claims of the anti-vaxxer and vaccine reluctant as to how common these reactions happen to be.
It is a fact that the percent of people who react badly to the vaccine is smaller, by a number of orders of magnitude, than the percent of people who have died from COVID. Not the percent of people who died after they got COVID, but the death rate overall.
With no more than 20% of the population having caught COVID, there are 600,000 dead from COVID, and 2.2 million have been hospitalized. With 52% of the population having received a vaccination, no more than a couple hundred people who have even become ill, while only a fraction of that have died.
At the most extreme case, death rate from the vaccine is 1/10,000,000. Whereas, death rate from COVID 19 for children (under 12), the age group for which it is least lethal, is about 20 times that rate (2 per million). The death rate for people older than 12 is from 200 times that for young adults, to a death rate from COVID that is 30,000 times higher for people over 65 than the maximum possible death rate from the vaccine.
To repeat - a person who gets the vaccine is more likely to die from falling out of bed than from the vaccine. On the other hand, in 2020, COVID 19 was the third leading cause of death in the USA.
You keep saying this lady killed your uncle but you donât really know that. Her coughing doesnât necessarily equate to having covid. It could as easily have been an asymptomatic person that infected your uncle unintentionally. No one really can say.