I have a relative who has hated needles all their life. They are on the spectrum so that’s part of the backstory. We never insisted they be vaccinated - it was totally their choice, although we did explain that if their school had a mandate then that changes the picture. Anyway, they attended an event with us unmasked for the first time, got nervous being around so many others who were unmasked and opted for the vaccine. Now they have just learned that if they can show their vaccine card at work they needn’t wear their mask there. Win-win!
If enough people protect themselves by getting vaccinated to produce herd immunity, that will help protect the most vulnerable (e.g. those who do not get good immunity from vaccination or who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons).
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We are smarter than the virus…
Following this thought through to it’s logical conclusion…this means you believe that the 35,000,000+ (actual probably double or triple that number) people who’ve contracted the virus, or the 615,000 people who’ve died from Covid so far, were actually NOT smarter than the virus…
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Saying something “many times already” doesn’t make it true. Not everyone is gullible to gaslighting.
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I knew it! I just knew it.
Thanks for catching on. 
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I expected as much and with all the data I’ve seen not matching what was said on here in a couple of posts… I’m not surprised at all. I was willing to give some leeway if it was a non-Covid destination hospital within a system, but that’s the only plausible possibility I can think of.
It’s ok to be afraid.
This isn’t a correct analogy. Someone who drinks and drives committed deliberate immoral actions that led to that death. In contrast, Covid can spread and result in death w/o people even realizing they have it. And as many are saying here, it’s very possible to get it despite your best efforts (I’m of the opinion that best efforts reduce that likelihood significantly, but I digress . . ). Those who catch it and die may well have spread it - and those who infect others with Covid may well have caught it completely unawares. That’s the trouble with those infectious viruses.
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Sure, but if it starts to eat at your life then that’s a different thing. If I may suggest: a healthy fear is always something worth having. It will lead to right judgement and right action. An unhealthy fear can lead to less than a full and abundant life.
If I may quote you:
More than one hospital, Creekland. The person I’m referring to works at several and is well connected to the medical community. And knows many healthcare workers who have been vaccinated. It’s interesting that someone is so insistent on knowing which hospital and where: that will usually cause others to stop sharing. Personally, I have no way of verifying this information - nor do you. I only pass on what I’ve been informed of by a healthcare provider who is trustworthy. My response to any of this news is to encourage people to report it through VAERS or sign up with V-Safe and use that route.
The difference between us, splash, is that I might disagree but wouldn’t therefore insist that you see it my way. The vaccine-enthusiastic aren’t content merely to disagree with others.
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Don’t worry - this is an open forum so you are probably safe from being gaslighted. That was a reminder, not an attempt at psychological manipulation 
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Well, many who opted to engage in behavior that violated Covid protocols and got infected as a result were definitely NOT smarter than the public health people who came up with those protocols. Either that or they gambled rationally and lost. Over time and as more data and information became available, it was probably more the latter than the former but with tragic consequences on occasion. Many vulnerable who died as a result of human negligence - poor decisions made about institutional care, for example - were victims, not chumps. Unfortunately they weren’t prioritized as they should have been once it was clear that the virus was killing primarily the old and the sick (we knew this even early on from the data in Italy). Many in marginalized communities that got hit hard with the virus were basically forced into situations that cause them to become infected, as they had to choose between their livelihood and staying home. They didn’t have the luxury of working from home.
But there are plenty of examples and data from this year - well before a vaccine was available - demonstrating that it’s not difficult to work around Covid. It takes a bit of discipline, but many things do. It may not be optimal from our viewpoint, but so what? If it’s not our cup of tea we don’t have to live like that.
Of course. Now, in our state the number of breakthrough cases is just minimal. Pretty much all the hospitalizations and deaths are of unvaccinated. We do have a large population of elderly who have been vaccinated. So I suspect the number who are not getting good immunity is pretty small - but of course I haven’t followed any detailed discussion of that here so could be off. The latter category would of course benefit from herd but that might be an unrealistic expectation. It would be wonderful if everyone saw things the way we do but we don’t live in a country known for its unanimous opinion on matters of large import. If I had someone like this in my family I’d figure out a way to help them live a full life w/o putting themselves at risk. This is similar to helping someone with a chronic illness or life-threatening allergy.
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Lots of people apparently lost the needed discipline during the winter holidays when they had indoor family gatherings. Many (not all) got unlucky and had super spreader events.
What made it difficult for many is that contagious diseases upend trust relationships. Ordinarily, you only need to trust your family member or friend. With contagious diseases, you need to trust whoever they trust, and so on. So people may be ok with social distancing and masking against stranger danger, but dropping their guard with family and friends made it easy for the virus to exploit their social networks.
With vaccines, this is much less of an issue, except for the medically vulnerable who do not derive good protection from vaccination. They still need to depend on others’ immunity for protection while doing “normal” things around others, and be COVID-19-paranoid around those not known to be immune.
Please consider that you don’t know everyone’s experiences or circumstances.
It’s insensitive, for example, to tell a parent of an immune-compromised child not to live in fear during a pandemic. We took all the necessary precautions and were extremely lucky to be able to stay as safe as we needed to be, but I was still afraid for my child, especially when cases spiked and no vaccine was in sight. I’ve been through the ringer with anxiety and fear the past year and a half and that’s on top of my usual worry about my child (don’t be concerned; I keep all that stuff inside my head so she doesn’t suffer from it).
And yes, I understand the difference between “healthy” fear and “unhealthy” fear. We wallow in unhealthy fear from time to time, but we keep going. I understand about helping a person with chronic illness live a full life without putting themselves at risk because that is what I’ve done since my child was diagnosed years ago.
Maybe you think I’m too sensitive or something, but when you wrote that we should trust that everyone out there is acting with intelligence and common sense and that we shouldn’t live in fear…well, to be honest, it made me angry and upset.
I’m not sure what you have against vaccine enthusiasm, but I’m extremely enthusiastic about the vaccine that could literally save the life of my child and my elderly parents.
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Last fall, during the TG holidays, I personally trusted no one outside my immediate family living in my house. It’s not that I thought they had done something wrong - I simply didn’t really know where they had been. Still I was able to see extended family just w/o hugging and close contact, lack of masks, etc. It worked. Was it “optimal?” yes - considering the alternative which so many others employed (ie cancelling Thanksgiving 
). Did someone get offended? Of course. Did someone boycott? Yup. Our family is no different from other American families - we have our zealots on both sides of the issue. The idea was show up if you are comfortable - if not we’ll have you via zoom. And please people: no kissing. (NB: we also met in a way that didn’t violate social gathering rules. Took a little planning but we made it work). Two people from that group (siblings, younger, not as cautious) were diagnosed with Covid the following Monday. No one from my immediate family, however. Perhaps we were lucky but, as a famous golfer once said, the more I practice, the luckier I get. We practiced good Covid protocols. And that’s not the first time something like that has happened. I won’t rule out having weird genetic factors that help (several members of my birth family have been repeatedly inadvertently exposed to Covid over the past year with no impact) but in the absence of any data suggesting that, I’m chalking up our good outcomes to those good ol’ Covid protocols.
The medically vulnerable should take those same precautions even now. If they can’t, then someone should help them figure it out. In all cases, agency should be respected as much as possible. JMO. Unvaccinated Granny might depend on my vaccination but it’s possible that my breakthrough case of very mild Covid could kill her. She should feel encouraged to wear a mask if she wants one, and anyone visiting should do the same. If Granny’s all “phooey and fiddlesticks” and is of sound mind, different story.
Interestingly, my parents’ residential community no longer requires visitors to wear a mask as long as they are vaccinated. They clearly either believe they have very few medically vulnerable in residence there or enough are vaccinated that the spread is just not a risk.
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Thank you for providing this detailed explanation. Please accept my best wishes for your child and my congratulations on your being able to navigate a scary year so successfully. I too have vulnerable children and elderly parents but have no idea whether I walk your path. Each is unique - yours might indeed be more difficult.
I have nothing against vaccine enthusiasm unless it’s imposed on others. By all means, you and your family should have been vaccinated! It’s when those who embrace the vaccine decide that others “must” embrace it too also for their benefit that I get a tad nervous. As do others on this thread.
Currently, more than 300 million doses have been given. Obviously, there is widespread acceptance for the vaccine. But in general, millions of Americans are also capable of living their lives perfectly sensibly without the “help” of those who wish to correct or instruct them on whether to be vaccinated. You and I might also see people very differently and I’m sure that our views are colored by our personal experiences as much as they are formed by dispassionate thought. Finally, empathy for the other doesn’t mean one has to agree.
However, we can probably both agree that the vaccine is overall great news.
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Actually, the CDC estimates that the disease burden from Feb 2020-March 2021 might be as high as 134 million! https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html The 95% interval range is 98 - 134 million with a point estimate at 114.6 million.
602k deaths is horrific, but the death rate overall is estimated to be something like .4-.6% given the CDC’s disease burden, rather than the .9-1% we all have read about. Naturally, that varies by age group. But overall it’s probably 3-5x as deadly as the flu.
Estimated hospitalizations from Covid are also higher than the actual numbers we have seen, and those will vary by age group as well. For example, the 65+ age group has nearly half the number of estimated infections as the 5-17 year old group but something like 15-20x the number of hospitalizations.
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