All valedictorians/salutations and other top 10 from his schools are the ones who got into top schools. It’s rare for jack of all trades to make it. He isn’t naturally gifted in his favorite EC’s but he is in academics. That’s what makes scares him.
The valedictorians who post on CC seem to be surprised that there aren’t really any benefits to the honor other than the warm glow of achievement. To answer the question, it would be unrealistic that the top 8 or 9 students could all be overtaken.
Well, worry hurry, maybe he will just have to expand his focus a little bit more beyond the tippy-tops. What prevents him from doing so? It’s your job as a parent to counsel him wisely, not to feed into any “you must get into the tippy-tops or your life is over” or “goodness, the kids at #25 are just so much stupider and you’ll wind up flipping burgers or making lattes.”
He doesn’t HAVE to be “gifted” at his favorite EC’s. My kids both got into fancy-schmancy schools that would hopefully meet your criteria. They were dedicated to them and did interesting things because they were interesting EC’s.
These forums are supposed to help ppl.
If he can make it, just talk to GC to see about taking most rigorous course load. Don’t sacrifice personal health, and definitely don’t trade classes he would enjoy just to “look good.” Check out online/summer school options, and good luck to you.
Pizza Lady, I agree but I also don’t want him to think that he can’t achieve his goals and must give in to mediocrity because that’s what most adults see as a balanced route to happiness. It’s his life. By the way, flipping burgers is a fine job in my eyes if it makes him happy.
Wow, what an attitude. Kids who take interesting electives that aren’t AP classes are “giving in to mediocrity”? That’s so insulting.
My sophomore is taking electives that interest her and that we both think will develop her talents and interests. She is loving her high school experience and she isn’t “giving in to mediocrity”. She has super high standards for herself (to the point where I have to tell her to stop working or that things are good enough). I know she won’t be valedictorian because of the course choices she’s made. It’s simply not something we consider or care about. I invite you to come back here in 2 years and compare lists of college acceptances between my “mediocre” kid and your valedictorian.
Your kid will be in trouble if all he offers is academic superiority in his one hs, among one set of peers. Top ten isnt “the magic.”
Cmon, just look at what the top colleges say they look for. Some spirit, some willingness to explore, not the narrow minded idea it’s all rank and rigor perfection. Do him a favor.
“I agree but I also don’t want him to think that he can’t achieve his goals and must give in to mediocrity because that’s what most adults see as a balanced route to happiness.”
But the goal of getting into one of a handful of tippy-top schools isn’t a goal that is in his power to guarantee. It’s like having a goal of dating Scarlett Johannsen or George Clooney. It’s a great goal, but the person who makes that dream comes true ain’t you, baby.
Anyway, how black-and-white, how distorted-thinking on your part and/or his part to think that anything but those tippy-tops is “giving into mediocrity.” Do you have any clue how completely off the mark you are on that one? I’m really, really sorry that your home culture steered you into thinking that only a handful of schools in the US are excellent / worth going to / full of resources and smart kids, but you’ve just got to get over it and come to grips with reality. And the first thing you need to do is disabuse him of the nature that there are just a handful of “dream schools” and the rest are trash where the mediocre hang out.
Just wanted to add that my kid puts a lot of time and effort into an EC that she is mediocre at and has no chance of winning any titles or awards for. But she loves the friends and the experience. It makes her happy. And I am absolutely sure if she doesn’t get into her “dream school” she won’t look back and say, gee, I really wish I hadn’t done that EC. I should have taken even more AP classes and spent even more time studying.
You seem to feel that those other classes would be a waste of time. If I were you, I would absolutely encourage my child to take the debate class. I think that would be a great experience. What do you imagine your kid will do with all this schooling in a few years? Has it occurred to you that practicing speaking in public might just possibly be a valuable experience for interviews and giving presentations? Like, for instance, they might have to do in a job or in grad school? You need to get rid of this snooty attitude about “balanced” development being mediocre. People need a lot of skills to be successful. Book knowledge is just one of them.
My other kid took 5 music classes in high school. That kept her from being valedictorian but it was also one of her essay topics. She loved her music classes and also wouldn’t have traded them for anything.
Let’s unpack prestige.
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There’s prestige among the unwashed masses – Harvard, sure, but Ohio State too, because I know them through sports. Such prestige is based mostly off familiarity - I’ve heard Harvard is good, but I don’t really know anything about it, and I knew this one kid who went to Ohio State and he’s a good kid so it’s gotta be a good school.
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There’s prestige among those who have a very superficial understanding of colleges. This is the crowd who repeats “HYPSM” and “The Ivies” and “Upper Ivies versus Lower Ivies” and maybe throws in Duke or U of Chicago or Caltech. If they are from California and/or Asian, they invariably add UCLA and UC Berkeley to the list – if they are elsewhere, not necessarily. Their understanding is also based off familiarity – I’ve heard all my life these are the best, so they are, and if other people I know haven’t heard of it, it must not be very good.
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Then there is prestige among those who are actually very knowledgeable on what makes a high quality educational setting. This describes many people on CC who are generous with their time and knowledge. This group certainly believes the above mentioned schools are all great places, but they also will add in liberal arts colleges that the group above has simply never heard of, or universities that are below the top 20 but are still great institutions (Georgetown, USC, Tufts, etc.). Their knowledge is based on ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE, not just “whether I’ve heard of it.”
My guess is that your son is sitting squarely in #2. His “dream” is predicated off what he considers to be “name brand colleges” - which are simply those colleges that his peers or older adults around him fetishize. They’re all great schools – no argument there - but they aren’t the only game in town. Your job is to make him see that the truly SMART people work along the lines of 3 – they care about excellence, not just what is familiar to others.
Are you ready to go to Group 3? Are you ready to help your son go to Group 2? Or is he just going to chase what you termed in a different thread the “mirage” of Group 2, who over-focus on a few chosen schools?
His point of view is that just because most people don’t make it to Val/Sal or top colleges for diffrent reasons, it doesn’t mean that it’s unacchiveable for everyone.
I don’t even understand what you mean by that. Of course it’s not unachievable for everyone–they do accept students. But you are doing him a great disservice if you lead him to think that making val will significantly help him to get into a top college, or that colleges don’t value other classes than AP classes. It sounds like he wants to take music and debate. How can you as a parent tell him not to or make him think that he is jeopardizing his future if he does what he likes and wants? Don’t let your ignorance ruin your kid’s high school experience.
Oh and don’t come back on this site and whine about how some kid with lower rank took “your kid’s spot” at some college.
And sheesh, what wd he replace music and/or debate with? An umpteenth AP so his classmates are impressed?
We see this thinking all the time on CC.
Yes, it’s really very sad.
OP, you might look at the recent thread on student suicides at Penn or the high school students jumping in front of trains in Palo Alto. It’s really not healthy to lead your kid to think that they have to be number one, can’t take a class or two they like because that would mean “losing” the number one spot and if that happens their life is ruined. Kids need to be allowed to learn and do what they love. They need time to explore to find out what they love, not be pushed by parents into things and wind up as a young adult who’s never been allowed to make any decisions and doesn’t even know what they like because all their life they’ve been told what they must like.
“His point of view is that just because most people don’t make it to Val/Sal or top colleges for diffrent reasons, it doesn’t mean that it’s unacchiveable for everyone.”
And you’re the parent. Which means it’s your job to counsel him that while it’s always good to shoot for good things, val / sal is a distinction that isn’t terribly meaningful to elite colleges nor is it meaningful in the real world.
And it’s also your job as a parent to get him out of the mindset that there are only a few colleges that are worth attending and everything else beneath that is filled with stupid peers, terrible teachers and will lead to nothing other than flipping burgers.
If my kid says “Hey, NYC is the capital of NY State!” it’s my job to correct them and say - no, actually that isn’t true, it’s Albany. Likewise, if your kid says “anything below these handful of schools represents mediocrity” it’s your job to correct that as well.
I guess the million dollar question is – do you actually believe that? Do you think the scope of opportunities at HYPSM et al is indeed orders of magnitude larger than a few rungs down? Where did he get this opinion from?
I was never as smart as him so I guess I can’t really relate to his dilemma. I do tell him that in bigger picture of life, these things don’t matter but honestly, I don’t want him to look at his world through my biases.
But that sharing truth. That’s not bias.
It is, he may look back and realize he passed on things that were reachable and worthy for him but his parents were naysayers who coaxed him toward their version of balance.