I would have not responded to the thread if DadII have listed what he meant by middle income.
My intention was to highlight the fact that HMSPY can do a better job with FA</p>
<p>This is what I think should be done: FA should be divided into Tuition Aid (TA) and Other Aid (OT)</p>
<p>Formula to compute TA: Based on AGI reported to IRS on/by April 15th.</p>
<pre><code>$TA = $T - ($AGI - $AGIO) / M
</code></pre>
<p>Where $T is the tuition
AGI is the reported Adjusted Gross Income
AGIO is the adjusted gross income below which Institute don’t charge any FEE.
M is the multiplier that decided by the institute based on the endowment which compute the scale of tuition wrt to AGI.</p>
<p>Other Aid:
$O = $S + $OA
where S is the student contribution thru semester work study and summer work.
OA is the other aid computed taken into account AGI and other factors presently used.</p>
<p>So for example let’s take Harvard:
AGIO can be set to $60K
M should be around 7
That will generate something like this If tutition is $35K
AGI <= $60K - $TA = $T = $35K
AGI = $130K - $TA = $T - $10K = $25K
AGI = $200K - $TA = $T - $20K = $15K
AGI = $270K - $TA = $T - $30K = $5K</p>
<p>If you take a look at it this actually fullfill Harvard claim that no one has to spend more than 10% of the family income on tuition.</p>
<p>Pea: I think Harvard does claim that for family earning upto $180K but with this mechanism no one will have to pay more than 10% of the family income in tuition.</p>
<p>This way no one will feel left out as the only concern people have when some one making the same pay as them get $17K in FA while they get none. This is from the average FA Princeton says family making $200K get.</p>
<p>AGI takes into account medical bills, charity donations etc.</p>
<p>So when IRS don’t charge different tax rate on the same AGI then HMSPY should not charge different tuition for the same AGI.</p>
<p>One thing this thread demonstrates is that someone will always be mad. HYPS has the most generous financial aid policies of any colleges and apparently the most complaining about what they haven’t done. I know families who are paying the full price at small private colleges whose financial aid policies are not as generous as Harvard’s and I haven’t ever heard them complain. Maybe Harvard has already done too much.</p>
<p>Pea: ^^^ Again repeating the complaints are because Harvard treats two family with same income differently which the small LAC doesn’t.</p>
<p>At the small LAC both families will be full pay while at HMSPY one will be paying the full price while the other half.</p>
<p>That is what is not correct in my opinion. I’ve nothing against those making less than what I make getting the FA. The problem is with those who make same as I do or more but get away with FA from HMSPY.</p>
<p>^^^: The Other Aid takes that into account and HMSPY or anyother college chose to give family with multiple kids aid and those with one kid don’t.</p>
<p>So if Harvard extend a TA of $15K to families making $200K and OA to family with multiple children of $10K then the total FA for family with multiple children becomes $25K.</p>
<p>Tuition is per head and if a family has two children in college then they have to pay two tuitions.
But they do get double the TA also.
So the family making $200K with first child at Harvard gets TA of $15K.
With another joining Harvard the total FA becomes
$15K for the first child
$25K for the second child
So the family gets a total FA of $40K which is more than 1 full tuition.</p>
<p>Point to be noticed that this system will extend only $15K to the first child as it is no different from a child attending from a single child family.</p>
<p>The fundamental wrong premise of POIH’s argument is that people with the same AGI are similarly situated. That’s not true at all. Family A may have an AGI of $100,000/year, which consists entirely of cash interest and dividends paid on a long-term investment portfolio with a value of $6 million, and live in a house (purchased years ago, debt free, from sales of portfolio assets) worth $3 million, with a vacation home worth another $3 million. The art collection in its houses (which produces no cash income) has been appraised at $4 million. Family A can essentially decide what AGI it wants by turning over or liquidating its investments, creating capital gain or loss taxed at a much lower rate. Family A has two children, each of whom has a substantial 529 account. Family B has an AGI of $100,000 because both parents work at jobs that pay $50,000. They don’t own a house, although they have $30,000 saved for a downpayment. They have four children and support a disabled parent who lives with them.</p>
<p>Sorry, I don’t get the argument how morally these two families must get the same financial aid / pay the same price for college (if we accept the idea that what people pay for college is going to reflect their ability to pay). At Harvard, Family A is going to be full-pay, and Family B is going to get reasonably close to 100% financial aid.</p>
<p>I don’t know rom828, it depends on what kind of a night it will be here. Could be ice cold beer, or might be a Long Island tea night. Any predictions?</p>
<p>OK…this is going to be unpopular. How about if colleges are “fixed price”…everyone who attends pays the same amount. Some would be inexpensive or free (sort of like the old CA community college model in the 70s) and others would be more costly…sort of like cars…some would be priced like inexpensive cars and others like BMWs. If you decide to purchase something you really can’t pay for out of pocket…you take out a loan…just like you would do with a car. OR you choose a less expensive model.</p>
<p>But of course that would mean that income and assets would weigh heavily on who attended which schools…which is what this generous need based aid does at schools that have those policies.</p>
<p>I’m with Curm…I’ve learned a lot from the goats.</p>
<p>Speaking of goats…let’s have Feta cheese and some Tapas today. I’m sick of cheap popcorn.</p>
<p>You got that right. As the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished.</p>
<p>Anyway, why should Harvard “have” to work it so that no one pays more than 10% of income? That’s a nice thing for them to do to the extent they can, but it’s certainly nothing they owe anybody. A Harvard education is a luxury good. It doesn’t “have” to be priced at no-more-than-10%-of-anyone’s-income any more than a Mercedes needs to be. The entitlement that a Harvard education should be easily affordable to everyone just doesn’t hold water. </p>
<p>If anything, it would hold more water for someone to say that a given public state u tuition scale should be set up so that no state resident taxpayer pays more than 10% of income. That might be a good or a bad policy – I don’t know – but at least it’s linked to something concrete – that the public state u’s mission is to serve the people of the state who fund it. Harvard has no such mission. If they decide tomorrow they want to eliminate all FA and jack up the price to $500K / year, they get to do that and that’s how it goes.</p>