<p>The bpttom line is that there are many very students that would qualify for FA at these top 20 schools, especially the IVYs. These kids should be encouranged to apply. Too often I see threads that state if you can’t afford it don’t apply. THIS IS SO WRONG. Everytime I come across a thread like that I wish I could call that kid or parent and tell them PLEASE APPLY. I always wonder how many middle income kids with great credentials just don’t bother.</p>
<p>^^^^^And this is what I wish I knew before starting this whole process with my daughter.
She ended up getting great aid from an elite LAC, but just 2 out of seven. Just luck it seems.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>OTOH, I know students with great stats who were encouraged to “aim high”, applied and got in (Ivys and other top schools), then were offered FA packages which were much less than hoped for and had to say no. Very disappointed kids.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with aiming high, but be sure to include an academic and financial safety. Many aim high and get sorely disappointed.</p>
<p>“Too often I see threads that state if you can’t afford it don’t apply. THIS IS SO WRONG.”</p>
<p>Yes…excellent students should be encouraged to include some academic reaches, BUT, in addition to including an academic and financial safety (that they would be happy to attend) they must be aware, at the time they apply, how much their family is willing to pay. AND, if circumstances change (loss of job, major illness, family issues) the family may need to revise that amount. </p>
<p>Unfortuntely, in addition to the kids who don’t apply, we see the kids who apply, get in, but even with some aid, the parents can’t (or won’t) pay the $25,000 - $30,000 per year at a $50,000/year school. So…no parameters were set at the beginning, the kid gets in, but can’t go…and there is major resentment towards the parents.</p>
<p>Emphatically agree with the last two posts! It’s one thing to tell a 17 y/o, “You can only attend a need-only school if your finaid award covers X amount.” It’s another for the student to fully understand and accept that come April. And, of course, there are those parents who change their minds about what they’ll pay once all offers are on the table - and even parents whose heads are stuck in the sand and refuse to accept in December what becomes all too clear the following spring. </p>
<p>It worked for us to tell each child what we could afford and help them compose lists with affordable options, either with possible merit aid or a lower price tag. There is no shortage in this country of schools where a committed student can get an outstanding education.</p>
<p>Just a point about vacation homes and affording college:</p>
<p>I know three families who own shares in vacation homes that they inherited from their parents. They own these shares with their siblings or other family members. This asset was one reason they received no or very limited financial aid (from schools that promise to meet 100% of demonstrated need, although not Ivies). None of these families are extremely wealthy, and this situation is definitely a hardship for them, since they can’t sell their share easily.</p>
<p>Couldn’t a sibling buy them out temporarily?</p>
<p>
Maybe. I expect eventually to have a share in one of these “assets,” and they can be very difficult to get rid of. In our case, the various “owners” are responsible for a proportionate share of the upkeep, and nobody wants to have a bigger share. Also, because it’s a beloved family homeplace, it has been made deliberately difficult to sell shares to anybody outside the family.</p>
<p>Hunt…Assuming the other shares belong to siblings can’t you sell your share? The other option would be to document everything regarding the house. The value divided by the number of shareholders so to speak. The money it takes to keep the house up etc… That is a tough one to swallow however there are people who do not have a vacation house either by purchase or inheritance to take a vacation to. Shore or lake houses are wonderful but they are assets.</p>
<p>If you sell your shares at fair market value, then you have a large pile of cash that you have to report on your financial forms. I don’t see this as a good tactic to getting more financial aid.</p>
<p>The only option is if you try to “gift” it your siblings to hide your assets. But we’ve already covered hiding assets.</p>
<p>It is hard to muster much sympathy for the plight of the “I inherited a beloved family homeplace which I can’t sell” crowd. I don’t mean to be unkind- I realize that owning property is a mixed blessing which involves costs and can crimp one’s cash flow- but it’s hard to argue that pound for pound, better to have the asset (which after all, has some value even if it’s not easy or desirable to sell it) than not.</p>
<p>If your siblings also have college-age kids applying for financial aid, they aren’t going to want to buy you out.</p>
<p>Blossom, I wasn’t trying to get sympathy (and I’m not even in this situation). I was trying to counter the assumption made upthread that if you own a vacation home you must be wealthy and not need financial aid. These families are very happy to have this place to go 2 weeks a year. All three families were unaware of the ownership’s impact on their EFC until they filled out forms. Because of the ownership situation, I don’t believe they can get a credit line or second mortgage on the property to help cover college costs.</p>
<p>In one case (I think), the parents are still alive and decided to gift the property to the kids. My friends now really wish the parents had waited to do that until all the kids were done with college.</p>
<p>We declined the opportunity to jointly own a family vacation home for a lot of reasons (didn’t want to own a property far from home that we would seldom use, tax and maintenance liability, and financial aid for our kids…and their offspring in the future). In many cases, these family shares cannot be sold without the consent of the other owners and creates a true headache for someone who wants to get out of their share of the ownership for any reason…unless the remaining sibs want to buy them out. </p>
<p>Vacation homes and rental properties are both items that impact the FAFSA EFC (and Profile calculations) regardless of how you acquire them.</p>
<p>And again, who all of this financial mess hurts is the students. The fact that a student’s parents own a vacation house that they are unwilling to sell, and therefore, the student can’t attend Stanford or MIT gets shafted.</p>
<p>There’s much a guy can say except “Life is unfair.”</p>
<p>But it really goes to show that there are many, many circumstances behind whether a student can attend an expensive private college. The simple fact that one coworkers kid is attending an expensive private school doesn’t mean that another corworkers kid can also afford. Parents would do well to keep that in mind.</p>
<p>
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<p>Right, including private financial matters or situations that really aren’t anyone’s business.</p>
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<p>If HYPSM’s financial aid policies bother you so much, perhaps you should show them who’s boss and not send your daughter there.</p>
<p>UPenn tells the families at the info sessions to check
fee waver for the application and to apply, if the fee is a hardship…
so at least in the case of UPenn, no kid can say it was too expensive to apply there…</p>
<p>And I expect there are fee waiver options for all of these reachy schools</p>
<p>As for CollegeBoard and ACT fees…thats another ball of wax…however I think they have a fee waiver program as well.</p>
<p>I think the issue of applying or not–because the app process is too expensive gets handled that way, right? So the post many pages ago about the middle income kids who don’t apply is probably not wholly accurate.
(wish I knew how to quote to insert it here…)</p>
<p>The issue of paying --reminds me of the post in a thread that cited the Ct ruling that states its not more patriotic or loyal to pay more taxes…"
So families ARE looking for how they fit into the system.</p>
<p>Seems that if a kid qualifies for aid based on what the school’s fin-aid cmte does–will vary from school to school …who are we to tell them how to run their business?
and They determine the criteria, not us.
Its a business and yeah, we can play by their rules or take our marbles and play elsewhere. Right?
Does it seem unfair, yes because we want the rulles to work for US. </p>
<p>So, I think the OP was trying to state that in this case the student got some nice aid packages from schools often seemingly “out of reach” which in this case was urban myth and unfounded…</p>
<p>I also noticed that the top schools vary by quite a bit on how they address student assets. Some schools assess 25% of student assets in determining EFC, while other schools only use 5%. If a student has significant savings from earnings or even a small inheritance, this difference could be significant (initially at least). BUT after those assets are used up, the FA should increase in later years.</p>
<p>The difference between the people that have inherited money or assets and those who have not is that the college their kid is attending will want/expect and deserve a portion of that. There are alot of people trully scraping by to pay the high tuition bills without the luxury of driving nice cars, remodeling kitchens and bathrooms or taking vacations. </p>
<p>If people can afford to pay tuition then they should be paying. There are people who expend a great deal of time learning how to cheat the system. The people who are on the edge of receiving but receiving much are the ones who really need the help. It is the kids who have a tougher time trying to work and go to school. Each of my kids pay a student contribution every year as well as books and entertainment expenses. How else could I send four kids to expensive colleges. That is the difference between people who need vs people who expect. I think it is difficult for one group to feel for the other group. I know that I have no tolerance for parents that could afford to send their kids to any school but choose to live their lives without any changes. I find it hard to imagine that a parent would tell a kid who got accepted to a top tier school sorry kid you will need to go to XXX because it is cheaper. The kid sees their parents lifestyle and knows full well that the parents are just placing their own needs ahead of their child. I read those threads and feel so sad for those kids. Many people have the attitude that you pay what you feel comfortable paying, and let the kid worry about the rest. That is why there is fafsa and CSS, it forces cheap selfish parents to face the reality of what they need to put out. </p>
<p>I admit that I resent paying more for state school than I do for MIT and Cornell. That is my problem not my kids. I am happy as long as she is happy and going to school. I also thank God that the other schools have provided enough that husband and I could send her to state school without starving ourselves. We are still paying the cost of almost two tuitions a year and no I don’t feel guilty for taking it. My kids will pay it forward and so will I.</p>