<p>Now that this year's admissions season is drawing to an end, I thought I'd follow the lead of a few other posters and start a thread to look back over the process. Specifically, I am wondering about the value of pre-college programs in the overall process. I know there are some outstanding programs attached to music schools (Julliard, MSM, Mannes in New York, and I'm sure many others elsewhere). Some offer a clear path to continuing in those conservatories, others do not. Of course, like summer camp programs, these are very valuable for overall music training and musicianship, orchestral experience, etc., but there are also many young musicians who enter conservatories without having attended a pre-college. DS and DD both got a lot from pre-college programs at Mannes and MSM; one headed to a conservatory, the other didn't but continues to play in his college orchestra.</p>
<p>So I'm just wondering if other CC folks have stories to share about pre-college programs.<br>
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<p>I sing the praises of the pre-college program! I had all kinds of questions about the value of doing this, for my already too busy son, but it was a phenomenal experience, as he learned a great deal, got to play with incredible players, etc. </p>
<p>It is a huge commitment though; every Saturday, and there are so often other Saturday commitments. Some kids we know only did ensembles or lessons, not the full certificate program, but I really think the latter offered the best benefit.</p>
<p>My son was accepted at the conservatory where he did the pre-college program, but I have heard of a number of cases where attendance in the pre-college didn't in any way predict acceptance. So, I don't know, since there is no overlap between the prep and college faculty (at least in his program).</p>
<p>I'd highly recommend it, but that is mainly because I think it was so valuable for my own child.</p>
<p>There are no pre-college programs like this anywhere in our state. However, my son participated heavily in youth orchestra from 8th grade on. They had rehearsals every Sat. morning during the school year. They also had an excellent chamber music program in which he participated heavily. Both experiences were invaluable for him. Not only did it benefit him greatly musically and give him many audition and performance opportunities, it also connected him with other young classical musicians from around the area. </p>
<p>My guess is that many posters on this board do not have access to pre-collge programs, but most can access a youth orchestra. If pre-college is not an option, definitely look into youth orchestra.</p>
<p>I agree fully with Shennie that it is very important (for an orchestral instrument) to play with other players however you can achieve this. My son was in the Peabody Prep program for 3 out of 4 years of hs. An hour away, it was an all-day affair and made other parts of his life more of a strain. Nevertheless, there he was able to participate in a first-rate orchestra, excellent chamber music, a violin choir, a performance class, a theory class and a host of master/repertoire classes and recitals. He gained a lot from it and is a much steadier performer on all levels because of it. Worth it, but in his senior (this) year, he decided to stay home and just practise for auditions/study on Saturdays. I don't think he would have had the success this year had he gone to Peabody on Saturdays. It is always a balancing act with these kids! But I do recommend substantial ensemble playing during the high school years - a prep program is ideal if possible.</p>
<p>The value in either a precollege program, or a high quality youth symphony where available is the benefit of playing with like minded peers of equal and greater ability. This cannot be underemphasized. In most cases you will not get this in your high school orchestra... there are exceptions, and if you're lucky by all means continue to include that as well.</p>
<p>The greater the level of exposure to quality peers (and instructors, coaches, ensembles), in general, the quicker the student develops musically. Summer programs provide a similar experience, in addition to exposing a student to different teachers/methodologies and a wider perspective of peer ability.</p>
<p>Another great developer is small ensemble play, within established programs, or seperately with quality coaches.</p>
<p>For those without the geographic proximity to established resources, think a bit outside the box and try and become involved with community orchestras, chamber groups, and ensembles. These often include retired pros, former teachers who are more than happy to mentor a younger student, often for the sheer joy of sharing music.</p>
<p>Here are a few music schools that offer pre-college / preparatory programs (there are also many community music schools, and lots of youth orchestra programs)</p>
<p>Bard Conservatory (just added in 2007)J
Carnegie Mellon
Colburn
Cleveland Institute of Music (CIM)
Cincinnati College/Conservatory of Music (CCM)
Hartt
Julliard
Mannes
Manhattan School
New England Conservatory (home of "From the Top" radio broadcasts)
Peabody
San Francisco Conservatory
Temple Music Prep
Shepherd (Rice)</p>
<p>DD was at Peabody Prep for the last three years of hs. She also attended an arts high school and did orchestra/chamber music/theory classes at school and private lessons, violin choir and a performance class at Peabody. Her teacher was absolutely great and she got to play with some really high-level kids, both which gave her a better idea of what college level music would be like than I think she would have gotten if she hadn't gone.</p>
<p>I was in Juilliard's Prep, and it was a great experience. The best part was definitely the two great teachers I had the chance to study with. It was also terrific to have three orchestras to play in, solfege/theory class, chorus, and chamber music. It was a lot of fun, and I'm happy to have had the opportunity to do it for such a long time. It had an immeasurable effect on what I've chosen to do with college and music.</p>
<p>Even at the high school level some kids can't keep from seeking out as many music experiences as they can find, just as some, when they are seniors, will look for a Conservatory experience. My son feels almost like his precollege saved him because our high school music program was weak. He finally got to spread his wings there. I do know one student who has gone to the MSM precollege for seven years and went on to an Ivy college and no music plans, but the majority of my son's peers were applying to all the same schools this year, saw each other at auditions and are now planning on seeing each other next Fall!</p>
<p>I think some of the classes that are not performance, like theory/solfege and history, add a lot...and give the kids a more "holistic" feeling for music. Wish we had started earlier, actually (our daughter just did last classes on Sat.'s during her last two years of high school). She really enjoyed the classes and they supplemented our small school's music, which is mediocre at best. Driving an hour in and out was well worth it. It was nice for the kids to run into each other at auditions, I totally agree.</p>
<p>My son performed and was instructed in jazz for 3 years at NJ performing arts center in Newark, NJ. I imagine other performing arts centers have both classical and/or jazz education programs, like NJ PAC.</p>
<p>My son's experiences as part of a pre-college type program offered by a community music school in Chicago, The Merit School of Music, were invaluable. He was also fortunate to participate in a jazz performance mentorship program offered by the Ravinia Festival. Without these experiences, I do not believe he could have reached a level of readiness for conservatory--the music program in his high school was not strong. The wonderful thing, also, is that they were offered completely without charge. I encourage anyone in the area to look into these programs. The Merit School provides a range of programs for both classical and jazz musicians from pre-school age through high school, and the Tuition-Free Conservatory is very much like the pre-college programs affiliated with music schools mentioned in earlier posts.</p>
<p>I met a trumpet player recently who teaches at the Merit School and it sounded fantastic! So glad to hear your son's experience was wonderful....Perhaps someone can suggest some similar programs elsewhere?</p>
<p>D was in Duke University pre-collegiate string school (DUSS) for 8 years. She had fantastic chamber group experiences, challenging pieces, and took music theory. As she got older, she worked as an assistant and coach with younger players in a chamber camp. The director was her private teacher and was a fantastic influence on D. D will be playing the Mendelssohn e-minor as a soloist with the youth symphony on 4/26. I know I will cry all the way through it! It is her last performance with them as she goes to college next year.</p>
<p>DUSS gave her something she could not have gotten elsewhere- other strong players, an opportunity to grow with the program and lifelong friends. DUSS was also a great network for a parent to learn about auditions, summer opportunities and the college process. Her public HS program has been fun and a source of friends for D but didn't offer the level of players or the rich, music experiences (e.g:at DUSS she had contact through master classes and pre-concert performances for the NC Symphony and local chamber guild). D feels DUSS was the most influential activity she participated in. Well worth 8 years of Saturday mornings in the neighboring town.</p>
<p>Oops- I see there is a distinction here between pre-collegiate and youth orchestra. Duke does not have a conservatory or school of music, only a department. However, the program called itself pre-collegiate because it was started at Duke and had faculty support.</p>
<p>I believe the Merit Honors Jazz Ensemble was in NY recently, so you may have met the jazz trumpeter and teacher who leads that group. He was a great teacher and mentor to my son.</p>
<p>Hello Hornet, I didn't mean for there to be any distinction, actually, just thought it was time to find out about some of the great programs out there for pre-college (aka high school, middle school) students that helped our kids learn to love making music. I think Shennie has also mentioned a youth symphony program her/his son loved...(but didn't say which one) I know there are also two great ones in the New York area, Interschool Orchestras (ISO) and New York Youth Symphony.</p>
<p>I thought the New York Youth Symphony application was the weirdest and most political thing I ever had to fill out for a child's music experience. I think you have to know someone to land that. They seemed more interested in your media connections and friends in politics than anything else. Does anyone know what I mean, or are all honors orchestras like that?</p>
<p>I'll weigh in on the value of getting exposure from as many angles as possible for prospective musicians. DS participated in the Youth Orchestra and Wind Ensemble and Chamber music groups at the Hartt School. It was an all day commitment every week for his entire high school time. BUT he made friends in that group who he still keeps in touch with. DD also participated in these ensembles (not chamber music) and again, the experience was invaluable. It was particularly good for our kids as their high school does not have an orchestral program. Neither of my kids did a precollege program although Hartt does offer this. DS wanted to do this, but we live a bit of a distance and he simply couldn't get there during the week on time to do it. The Hartt Program is during the week...one or two evenings for two years. Our kids both participated in summer music programs. DS started at the end of 8th grade, and this really gave him a perspective on his place in the world. He was suddenly with students who ALL were the "first whatever" in their high school ensemble. This is where my kids both got many summers of solfege, music theory, music history and the like. The summer camp they went to had classes in the summers and both found these as interesting as the ensembles...and it prepared them well for their theory courses in HS (and for DD, the AP exam...she's not a music major).</p>