<p>When you talk about large schools, you have to consider that they are largely run by department. For example, at Cal, it is harder to get into the College of Engineering (which make up 20% of the student body) than L&S. It’s also harder for OOS and Int’l students (which make up 30% of every freshmen class) than in-state students. What happens at schools like Cal and UCLA is that they’re adding more students just so they can say they’ve complied the State’s mandate. But in reality, if you take the bottom quartile out from the student body at those schools, you’d see stats similar to schools like Vandy, if not better. Most grad school adcoms at the best schools, as well as, the top employers, are familiar with such system, that’s why, in my opinion, these top publics are in their elusive list seating side-by-side the “lower-ranked” Ivies.</p>
<p>RML- Do you know for a fact that Vandy grads are even applying to those top 3 schools? Maybe they don’t want to go there! Maybe they all go to law school! This is probably one of the most stupid discussions I have ever seen on CC, and that’s saying something. Congratulations!</p>
<p>In terms of academic standard for undergraduate education, I’d say yes. (You can include the top LACs in that list too.) But in terms of school prestige amongst the academics and top employers circles, Michigan has the slight advantage over JHU and a somewhat noticeable advantage over Vandy. Michigan is a target school for bulge-bracket. Vandy, whilst a very good school from what I hear, is not.</p>
<p>It looks to me that you’re suggesting that Berkeley should just be the College of Engineering. Satisfied now? </p>
<p>Like I said, those are “extra” students that Berkeley accommodated just so they can comply with the State’s mandate. But that should not be counted against the school. It means, you have an excellent school accommodating above-average students in addition to their strong, solid student body. If Vandy would expand to Berkeley’s size, I doubt it can make up a class similar to Berkeley’s current class.</p>
Why are you being delusional and hallucinating? The fact is that Vandy will never expand to Berkeley’s size and therefore it will always have a weaker undergraduate population overall.</p>
I know for a fact that applicants to the top 3 business schools self-select. Meaning, only those who think they stand a chance apply. But those applicants kind of knew what kind of students would these 3 schools want – a stint at Goldman or McKinsey, superb ECs, high GPAs, possess leadership qualities, etc, etc… If you look at the people who mostly comprise Goldman, McKinsey and such, you’d see they mostly come from the best schools. Unfortunately, Vandy isn’t in that list. If it’s in there, you’d see many Vandy grads at the top 3 business schools now. But you don’t.</p>
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<p>Okay let’s see if this would warrant Vanderbilt’s case this time.</p>
<p>The top 3 law schools are Yale, Harvard and Stanford. I do not have the data for the current class and/or the current enrolled students of these schools. But I do have Yale’s for 2007 and Harvard’s for 2006. </p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 57
Princeton University 54 University of California - Berkeley 48
Brown University 48
Columbia University 46 Cornell University 45
Duke University 41
University of California - Los Angeles 39
Dartmouth College 35
Georgetown University 32
.
. University of Michigan 23
University of Virginia 19
.
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.
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Vanderbilt University 13</p>
<p>Goldenboy, this thread is about Vanderbilt. Leave Michigan out of it. Nobody but you has tried dragging Michigan into this conversation, and I am fairly certain the OP had not intended this thread to be about Vanderbilt vs Michigan.</p>
<p>It was supposed to be a hypothetical question, lol. </p>
<p>Of course, Vandy wouldn’t’ expend to Berkeley’s size. It does not have the money to do it. It does not have the resources to do it. It does not have the horde of talented people to do it. It cannot do it. </p>
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Now you’re gradually understanding how large schools run. They run by department because they are large. As a result, their departmental strengths are stronger than those that are LAC-like. They are more focused towards departmental strength. </p>
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There you go. That came from your very mouth, Goldenboy. You just confirmed what I said. At least you’re confirming that top banks recruit from Michigan whilst they don’t at Vanderbilt. Michigan is in their prestigious list. Vanderbilt is not.</p>
<p>I have to agree with MomofWildChild RML. I don’t know much about Vanderbilt, but I know that Midwestern universities typically do not attract many “Wall Street types”. Chicago and Northwestern have very few students interested in those types of careers. With the exception of Ross, Michigan undergrads have virtually no interest in IBanking. Even at Ross, only 20%-25% of students are actually interested in IBanking. But in LSA and Engineering, perhaps 2%-3% max. East Coast elites have far larger chunks of their student bodies seeking jobs in IBanking. I would guess that Vanderbilt students have more in common with Northwestern and Michigan students than with Dartmouth or Penn students.</p>
Uh RML, do you even read the data sources that you cite? Cornell has 13 alums at Yale Law and Berkeley has 14, not 16 and 11 like you claim. Vanderbilt alumni are more interested in attending Duke and UVA Law than Yale Law. They are mostly Southerners after all.</p>
<p>I would vote that you let this go, folks. The OPs question has become a territorial battleground and I don’t really think anyone is listening any more. Just my opinion but really…</p>
<p>Vanderbilt has a student body that is comparable to the Ivy League. Last year, it received 28,348 applicants for 1,608 spots (4,038 were admitted for a 14.2% admission rate). In terms of selectivity, these numbers are comparable to Cornell and Penn. In terms of student quality, the SAT range for admitted students was 1400-1560 (M+V) or 32-34 for the ACT. </p>
<p>In terms of traditions, Vanderbilt has a huge literary tradition – the Fugitives and Agrarians are famous in literary circles (among which included Pulitzer Prize winner Robert Penn Warren). Throughout the years, Vanderbilt has had many CEOs of major companies, Academy Award winners, and top government positions (from Supreme Court Justice to Senate Majority Leader). More recently, it had back-to-back Nobel Prize winners with Al Gore and Muhammad Yunus. </p>
<p>In terms of the business world, two of the most prestigious consulting companies are Bain & Company and Boston Consulting Group. Bruce Henderson was the founder of Boston Consulting Group who is a Vanderbilt alum (who also went to Harvard Business School by the way). And Bill Bain was a Vanderbilt alum who currently and sits of the board for the university. Both company sites have a page for top schools which include Vanderbilt. </p>
<p>For investment banking, Vanderbilt is a target for BAML, Wells, Barclays, SunTrust, Harris Williams, and Stephens. It’s a semi-target for everything else (and in recent years GS and JPM have visited campus) so the name is getting out there it just takes time. Vanderbilt’s business school strengths are entrepreneurship and health care. It also has a very loyal and dedicated alumni base.</p>
You do realize that Vanderbilt has a larger endowment than Berkeley right? I guess that’s why Harvard doesn’t expand to 26K undergraduates as well, in your words: “It does not have the money to do it. It does not have the resources to do it. It does not have the horde of talented people to do it. It cannot do it.”</p>
<p>All of your Vanderbilt hatred won’t change the fact that its a top 20 American university and Berkeley isn’t.</p>