Vandy Double Majors

@AnnieBot : I don’t think they were claiming the workload is not manageable (no need to go after their son. Also, aerospace or mechanical is often among the more rigid engineering disciplines at most schools. I don’t know about Vanderbilt, but I think of places like Georgia Tech where it is definitely a heavy hitter. BME is at least more interdisciplinary to begin with so if you have other interests in the life sciences, often the curriculum somewhat accommodates. But places like GT tend to make engineering curricula so intense course requirement wise that double majoring becomes unlikely anyway so maybe not the best comparison). I think they just do not get why so many people do it (often flippantly- not really taking either as seriously as one would expect).

They don’t see the point from the perspective of an adult. And I agree with your third paragraph as contributing to the double major phenomenon. I think what we are saying is that doing MAJORS in all is unnecessary. Often you don’t actually need a major in a discipline to access certain types of jobs usually associated with them, but you do need a skillset, some of which are often not built by the major you choose. Engineering, IF you want to do it as a career is somewhat exceptional. However, if one is a STEM major, often it isn’t too difficult to choose another department to take extra courses such as econ. up to the intermediate level at least and then a couple of upper division (or special topics) courses of interest. That, or majors like engineering often overlap well with CS, so you can take more CS courses than required and then do personal co-curricular or extracurricular projects that further enhance those skills. I think some put too much stock in the major itself and the courses and not how to properly tailor the classes of the department. It is very natural to make assumptions that the major itself actually matters at that age. I ended up landing in chemistry/structural biology. Could it have been helpful to have biology and chemistry as a major, such, but I think dabbling strongly in both could have gotten me to the same level.

My guess is that many students like you would benefit from something like a computational/quantitative neuroscience (often this type of track involves much more engineering and physics oriented courses and research but geared toward the perspective of neuroscience) program fellowship or something. You can have the cake and eat it too without having to major in both. I had a friend very much like you but he started more from the BME perspective doing research in a more BME focused lab at Georgia Tech since his sophomore year of HS and then he went across town to do the neuroscience major (he actually joined an additional lab), but he more or less powered it up and got to the point where he developed software that was neuro focused. He didn’t have the best GPA (chemistry courses kind of dragged it and neuro is actually very stringent in comparison to many other programs), but ended up being admitted to MDPhD programs. And if he did graduate school (or even a job), he would have had many options in terms of where to and what types of programs he wanted to apply because of the skills he actually developed and things he did and lesser so the courses he took (though he definitely challenged himself. Started with ochem, took analytical and inorganic to keep pre-health in play despite having the option to do gen. chem. Took many of the more difficult biology and neuro professors/courses, and took a couple of graduate courses. Also, took much more math than needed).

Aside from STEM, keep in mind that many humanities and social science majors at elites are being clever enough with how they navigate college to do more than limit themselves to grad, law, or a future MBA. Many are making themselves ready for say, consulting jobs with that single major. It can be done. The co-curricular and extra curricular can take one far, especially if they are very meaningful and marketable.

AnnieBot: so you are BME major with 3.95 and what is your second major? well, I take it you have only one major not two while this discussion is about Double Majors. And do you think double major is useful while employers only need to know one major for entry level job.

Now, I am asking you again, what is your second major since the topics is double major. Kindly, let us know.

Also, upon graduation which field you want to work for? BME and another one? will you work two jobs at the same time? would any employers care for your second degree? I take it you are not out of school. But, have you given any thought of two jobs with two majors you are planning to work for?

MY son finished Vandy with dual degrees (Two majors - BE and BS) from Vandy (Mechanical Engineering and Tulane Physics). Upon graduation he has been offered a high paying job in aerospace company-Cali. During the interview, the hiring manager said he has read his resume but he only wants to see the Mechanical Engineering courses not Physics. Although Physics and Mechanical Engineering are closely related.

Anyhow, my son after HS, he has been accepted at JHU to major in BME however JHU is kind of stingy and did not give him lots of school money (tuition and fee). So, he chose to go to Tulane with dual degree programs.

So, think again that if anyone or even you AnnieBot wants to get two majors even they are related and they will not benefit any of you when it comes to apply for entry level jobs.

Anniebot said also: If I’m interested in both ChemE/CompSci and Econ, should I flip a coin to see which one I major in? If I can succeed in both majors, why not take them both?

I would say: Yes, you should flip the coin. Unless you can work two jobs (80 hours a week). So, you want to work in ChemE in the day time and moonlightning after the first job and doing the source code, debugging the programs, fixing the network in the evening?

Yes, nobody is stopping you to take two or three majors. However, are they beneficials for your career?

I have given you examples that a career banker as commercial lender (loan officer) will not have time to monkey around doing computer job. Also, I know one two guys working for Facebook, Google and they have comp science degrees but don’t have time to do accounting, or art jobs, etc.

@Tulanefan101 NO ONE IS GETTING TWO MAJORS BECAUSE THEY ARE PLANNING ON WORKING TWO JOBS AT THE SAME TIME!! Drop this issue! Major does not equate to job! It equates to area of potential expertise, should one wish to switch paths later down the line. It’s not a requirement that one moonlight as a jazz singer simply because they have a BM in voice, nor that they have a job in both engineering AND asian studies academia because they have both majors. Seriously, if you don’t get it now you’re not going to, so I feel like this discussion should just be closed.

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@Tulanefan101 It was in my first post on this thread, and it was in my second post on this thread. I’ll post it here again. I am a double major in both peabody and the engineering school majoring in BME and Cognitive Science.

Just because your son’s double major didn’t help him doesn’t mean it won’t help other people. Did having that physics major actually hurt him in getting that job? Unless it severely hurt his GPA, idk if they would look at it and say “Great kid. But we can’t hire him because he majored in both physics AND MechE. If only he didn’t have some of that additional knowledge related to the field he wants to work in, maybe then he would be a great candidate”. What if after he graduated he wants to go into physics academia? Having that double major definitely gave your son some potential flexibility that a single major didn’t have.

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I’m planning to double major BME and ChemE, so I’ll throw in my two cents.

I can understand that taking two unrelated majors may be unnecessary. No, you’re not going to be an engineer by day and professional musician by night. However, if it’s doable and doesn’t hurt your GPA, there’s no reason not to. Yes, you can always take those classes but not take on the extra major, but why not go ahead and get the second major if it’s relatively easy to fit it in your schedule, and it’s something you enjoy and want to take classes in? Also, some students who aren’t sure what they want to do feel better knowing that they have that second major in case they suddenly change their mind down the road.

On the other side of the coin, taking two related majors also can’t hurt. I’m really interested in medical research but BME is a trending major right now. However, chemical engineering is always in demand. Chemical engineering can relate to the same areas of work as biomedical engineering, but also encompasses a wider range of jobs. The vast majority of people aren’t working their dream job right away anyway. Personally, having the chemical engineering major will make me more comfortable after graduation because I know I’ll have more options as far as employment goes. For me, the double major is a compromise between being practical and pursuing my interests. That’s not to say that you should major in something you hate because it’ll get you a job, but if it blends well with your major and the knowledge you’ll gain from the second major is valuable in the field you’re aiming for, there’s no harm in going for it.

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@LexRex Just an FYI, you can’t double major in ChemE and BME at Vandy. Two majors from the school of engineering are not permitted. Just wanted to let you know that in case it alters your decision (which it really shouldn’t) but just a heads up on that one.

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Senior2016M: NO ONE IS GETTING TWO MAJORS BECAUSE THEY ARE PLANNING ON WORKING TWO JOBS AT THE SAME TIME!!

I would say: Plain and simple. Writing in big letters is showing you have no etiquette in discussion. You may be mad and angry but the world will still consider that you do not have the proper manner to channel and voice your concerns. Having said that I would say again: Vandy and any other schools do not care if you have two major or even three majors. But, those majors will not benefit you. I already told you that my son has two major Engineering and Physics from two different schools. When he was being interviewed for high paying job in aerospace company, the hiring manager only looked at his one major Mechanical Engineering from Vandy. He looked at his courses only in ME. Although physics is closely related to Mechanical Engineering but it was never brought into the interview.

So, why you need to do two majors while you only need one to get a job? it is wasting your energy to maintain high GPA let alone to do both. Besides, when you are looking for HIGH PAYING JOB, you need to have ECs, REUs (undergraduate research), internships, etc. If you don’t have any and only your gpa then forget about getting any good haying paying compensation entry level job.

Senior2016M said again: you can’t double major in ChemE and BME at Vandy. Two majors from the school of engineering are not permitted.

Well, you are contradicting yourself. One point is ok to do two majors and now you said the school (vandy) is not allowing you to do so? what is the rational behind? I already know the answer but I want you to say in here. Therefore, it makes you think again that two majors are not allowed at Vandy and they are not beneficial at all for your career.

AnnieBot: I am a double major in both peabody and the engineering school majoring in BME and Cognitive Science.

I would say: so you want to work in BME or Cognitive Science when you finish your school? Remember you can have only one job and two jobs. So, you have to choose one for your career.

During interview, the hiring manager only will look at one major and its courses and not both even though those majors are probably closely related to each other. Also, have you been able to get any REUs, research, internships, etc? IF not then forget about getting high paying job (hpj). The hiring manager for high paying job will only look at your High GPA, REUs, Research and internships. If you have only high GPA even 4.0 but no REUs, internships, research then you will get a job but so-so job, not high paying job at all.

Remember, HPJs are not many and they are to get. They are special in nature. But, you need to have three components: High GPA, internships and research.

Also, read this carefully, my son has two degrees one in ME and the other one if Physics. He got a job (high paying job) in Aerospace company but the hiring manager did not bother to look at his courses in Physics. He said that to my son during interview. The hiring manager looked at his high GPA in ME, his courses during undergraduate and his REUs (yes he had REUs-undergraduate research taken/done during summer time) and outside internship and internal research. Therefore, he was offered High Paying Job.

Anyway, don’t get me wrong that Vandy and other schools will be ok if you have two or three majors. But, the hiring manager only will look at one majoir.

Also, I would say it again: high GPA does not mean you will get high paying job if you don’t have internships, research, REUs (undergraduate research). There are two different jobs out there. One job will take you in if you have high GPA and it is so called so-so jobs meanwhile the other jobs so called High Paying Jobs (HPJ) will require more than high GPA but also, interships, research, REUs, etc. Good luck finding your HPJs with your two degrees.

LexRex: I’m planning to double major BME and ChemE, so I’ll throw in my two cents.

I would say: the other guy said you can not do it at Vandy. So, sorry LexRex, you have to change one of them BME (e=engineering) and ChemE (e=engineering) and vandy will not allow you to have two engineering degrees or two majors in E (e=engineering) at the same time.

LexRex: On the other side of the coin, taking two related majors also can’t hurt. I’m really interested in medical research but BME is a trending major right now. However, chemical engineering is always in demand.

I would say: Yes, they can not hurt even vandy and other schools will encourage kids to take two or even three majors. But, are they beneficial for your career. Although they are related but you can only work for one job.

So, if and only if Vandy will permit BME and chemE, would you work in oil company as chemE and at the same time you want to do research? now, you know that you are not able to do that. Or, you want to pursue your career in BME and as a side business wants to do ChemE too? I don’t think so.

Also, any college kids after graduation will go and look for HPJs (high paying jobs) not so-so jobs. However, any HPJs will require you to have High GPA and ECs like REUs, internships, research. will you be able to get high GPA, REUs, research or internships during your 4 years of education? high GPA alone will not land you in High Paying compensation entry level job.

remember engineering is hard let alone to get and maintain high GPA at vandy and do double or two degrees at the same time during 4 yrs college at vandy.

@Tulanefan101 Let me first address this ostensible debunking of my genuine advice to another person who used this site properly: “you can’t double major in ChemE and BME at Vandy. Two majors from the school of engineering are not permitted. Well, you are contradicting yourself.”

False. Vanderbilt has rigorous engineering standards and as such doesn’t allow you to do 2 engineering majors. It’s an exception to the double majoring rule. Not a contradiction.

You are without a doubt the most frustrating person I have ever interacted with on this site. Your condescending manner is unparalleled by even some people on the Harvard forum, and your ridiculous use of time in typing the above 3 meaningless responses to people indicates that perhaps you ought to find a different means of using your time effectively, as the college admissions sphere is not one in which you excel. I made the statement IN ALL CAPITALS not to show frustration, but to make it larger so you could see it and hopefully internalize it, but it seems even this was an unsuccessful method of driving home the point to you.

This is a fruitless argument. You are against double majors (albeit for the wrong reason, because you see it as a waste of time whilst the ambitious students like @anniebot pursue it for pure interest and because they can, not just to get ahead as you seem to insist must be the only rationale). That’s fine. Get over it. We disagree, and I’m sorry that you seem to be incapable of understanding this very simple principle that several people have explained in a myriad of different ways to you.

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Senior2016M: I am sorry if you don’t understand that double majors or two or three majors will not benefit you to get HIGH PAYING entry level jobs. To each each own and you can do two or three majors and Vandy and other schools do not care. But, if there is no benefit in getting entry level jobs at all then why you need to sweat it all.

Meanwhile, you have to know that getting a high paying job (hpj) entry level is different then so-so job for entry level. Yes, you can have two majors but can you do also internships, research, REUs and maintaining high GPA in engineering like 3.7 and above for HPJ?

Yes, high paying jobs (hpj) in engineering require you to have 3.7 GPA. If your GPA is 3.5, the hiring manager will not look at your application. Besides, the job will have the required GPA 3.7 in the post itself.

Also, I have been saying that double majors like Econ and BME, Econ and Comp Science, Econ and Engineering, Music degree and Computer Science etc are not beneficial at all for interview the entry level jobs. The hiring manager only look at your engineering GPA (high GPA 3.7 for high paying jobs), courses, REUs, research and internship. If you bring your two majors in interview then the hiring manager will smile and say I am sorry we don’t look at your econ major or music major or cognitive science major etc.

If you don’t believe me then try applying to aerospace company, oil companies, car manufactures, or for computer science jobs : google, Facebook, etc and don’t forget tell the hiring manager that you have also another major at ECON, Music, etc.

Or, ask any engineers if they have two majors and if their one major non engineering is useful for their entry level jobs. Or, ask any computer scientists if they have two majors and if their one major non comp science plays important role in their entry level jobs.

OP, to your questions…I’m not sure it’s so unique to Vandy. Many HOD majors double up and Econ is a popular second major choice. Another popular choice for HOD majors is to minor in financial economics, although that is being phased out for a business minor program. My D is considering a double major in a completely unrelated subject to her primary major. Her motivation is intellectual curiosity, and she feels it would be very manageable. She is self-motivated and has found a very good balance at Vandy. I don’t see her education strictly as a means to an end and I’m glad she doesn’t either. Regarding the tangible benefits, there are studies that are probably more reliable than opinions. I think the intangibles in college can be of great value too.

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@Tulanefan101

It is clear that @Senior2016M is not arguing whether a double major will increase one’s chances of getting a job or saying it is necessary to get one. I do not understand why you, @Tulanefan101 , keep going on about just focusing on one major because in the end you will get one job. College is not just about producing jobs although a degree is important for getting one. Why would you try to discourage others from pursuing multiple majors if they can handle it? I’m currently a freshman at Vanderbilt and plan on double majoring in Mathematics (applied track) and Neuroscience. I plan on applying to medical school although pursuing a PhD in math is not out of the question just improbable. I currently have a 4.0GPA and sure I’m still a freshman but I am pretty confident in my mathematical ability and my passion for both subjects. So, why not pursue two majors if you can do it for the same amount of money and have a passion for both subjects? Perhaps, the problem lies in each person’s belief of what a college education should be.

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It is honestly just easier to say that they primarily care about skills, knowledge base, and experience (and in some cases GPA, yes, depending on the industry) more so than the major itself. No need to argue about whether or not folks should double major for sake of a job. If they want to double major, they should, but they should realize that it isn’t a particularly helpful move for landing the first job. When they screen they will mainly look at the cover-letter and CV or resume to see if the skill-set matches the job description. If one is strategically double majoring for job flexibility, they need to be sure to take advantage of whatever programs, internships, etc that allows one to build skills in both disciplines. A poster above expressed interest in BME and ChemE, while perhaps too rigorous to do in 4-5 years, I see the dual interests in engineering (maybe not quite those two) and believe it or not, there are jobs and projects at the interface. I still remember my organic chemistry teacher telling us the story (which turned into an in class activity) about nutrasweet and diet coke and how Coca Cola company had a method of making the same type of sugar substitute and was going to compete directly with nutrasweet (they basically forced nutrasweet into buying off the method). They actually used a team of different type of engineers to facilitate that (part of the project involved designing an apparatus with a membrane that separated off a set of enzymes from each other that would do a particular transformation on aspartate I believe. The first would make it relatively non-polar so that it could pass through the membrane and the second, happening on the other side, would add a functional group, I think a methyl for all my chem nerds out there). Either way, I see from an intellectual standpoint, and you never know where the knowledge base may take you. My double major saves my behind in my current lab, but I suppose it is rare that many looking for an entry level job would be thrown into an extremely interdisciplinary environment.

However, on the other hand, I had a couple of friends who ended up a Tech/software jobs who were chemistry and math major respectively. They got access because of the projects they did on their own time and likely lesser so whatever major. Even there, there is some complexity, because they both are considering graduate school in STEM at a later point, so taking many STEM classes will help them already be kind of pre-qualified in terms of the transcript.

@XAtlas : Please try to combine those two interests (get a lab, internship, something), and perhaps DO NOT keep a 4.0 (3.85-4.0 are basically viewed as the same by most med. schools especially if MCAT is strong) will reflect that a strong student who took challenging courses. You may discover something VERY cool. Be sure to be challenged. You can be within reason and most medical schools will interview, and math graduate programs will absolutely expect it (top ones will be more enamored to see those with at least a couple of graduate level courses who still had a great GPA, but don’t over-rate the 4.0). Also, if you want to consider medical schools with special programs for the math and tech inclined like Harvard, or schools with dual degree programs in say, an engineering program, you will be more qualified.

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Generally the only context I fully agree with Tulanefan is that the actual major and courses should not be so important. If you are good at math, then you can pretty much get involved with any other area of interests without taking on a whole major. You can take a couple of entry level courses in another discipline and immediately “jump” to upper-division courses combining the interests or satisfying an intellectual thirst. A neuroscience major I knew back at my school was really bright so knocked out a couple of neuro courses her freshman year (on top of biology, and organic chemistry), proceeded to take the weed-out core course in neuro her second year along with an upper level electives and boom, a graduate level biomolecular chemistry course. Note, she had no intention on majoring in chemistry, I think she literally wanted to know how different types of systems (especially motor proteins) work at the molecular level. Admittedly, she was a pretty intense student. But she showed that there was a way to “dabble with pride”. She also essentially did a dual appointment in 2 labs as an undergraduate to combine the interests, one in her neurobiology lab, and a collaboration in pharmacology. So this I guess satisfied her thirst to continue learning from the perspective of a chemist or molecular biologists.

To be clear, certainly strive for a perfect GPA if you really want to, but don’t let it prevent you from taking certain academic risks (again, I don’t consider double majoring much of an academic risk unless both majors are EXTREMELY stringent and work load heavy) for the sake of knowledge. As I always remind folks, you could be missing out on some of the best instruction and perhaps the best recommendation letters you can receive. Strong rec. letters from mentors or instructors who know they do things differently or more rigorously than their peers usually have a lot to say about those who put up a solid performance (that need not be an A BTW). I had another friend that intentionally added one course each semester (he would literally say, “I usually choose at least one potential B”) that he knew wasn’t a strong point (like he would take a top English instructor known for harsh grading for the experience of having the instructor or a graduate level biology course that was known to be on the “rough” side) and would put his back against the wall in terms of getting an A/A- (he knew sometimes he would hit it and sometimes he wouldn’t). He learned a lot, kept a very strong GPA (in the range above) was interviewed at all of his MDPhD programs, got into several, and is doing that today. Basically, if you are talented, become more talented if you can.

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xAtlas said: Why would you try to discourage others from pursuing multiple majors if they can handle it?

I would say and say it again: to each, each own. But, why waste your time and energy when upon looking for entry level jobs, the employers only look at one major not the other one and certainly not both. The key word is: to each, each own.

xAtlas said again: I’m currently a freshman at Vanderbilt and plan on double majoring in Mathematics (applied track) and Neuroscience. I plan on applying to medical school although pursuing a PhD in math is not out of the question just improbable.

I would say: go ahead do double majors (and perhaps three if you have the energy and time). Nobody is stopping you. But, take my word, the easy way to go to Med School is just take one major like Math, Bio, Chemistry or even music if you have the passion. Once again the medical schools will look at your high GPA (like 3.8 GPA and above) MCAT Score, LOR (letter of recommendation), etc. No and no the med schools will not look if you have two or three majors. Just one is enough. HOWEVER, if you want to debunk me then go ahead study two majors and see if you can get stellar GPA and MCAT scores; and see if med school admission office will care for your two majors. Nobody is stopping you only you want to do it the hard way. Good luck and don’t blame me if you don’t get accepted at any med schools if you don’t get accepted.

PS: have you looked at the requirements for Med School? please go to their website.

To all of you who have read this discussion: XMAS is around the corner and I would like to end this discussion otherwise, it will be going around and around. XMAS time is a nice time and peaceful time. It is not time for arguments. So, I would say again that to each, each own. You may have the passions and energy to do two or even three majors and graduate with high GPA etc. And Vandy and other schools also will not care if you do two or three majors cause you still have to pay one price, like going to buffet all you can eat with one price.

However, after gradution, you only need ONE entry level job and the hiring manager will not care and neither will look at your second major etc. Then why you need to sweat it all doing two majors and perhaps can not even get high GPA cumulatively for both majors?

Also, have you looked at all of the entry level job posts? look at their requirements. Do they require two majors? I have never seen any but if you have then good for you.

And that is my last word. May this XMAS will bring you joy and happiness.

I think the point is that, for many, there is hardly any severe “sweating” (you can get a broad background and simply not choose the more challenging courses/instructors for one of them if you are super GPA conscious. Pre-professionals going to super GPA sensitive prof. schools such as law and medicine do this a lot. You can complete the pre-reqs and some other recommended courses while earning a super high GPA with careful selection) with the one or more majors they choose lol. Basically, it isn’t particularly hard for the folks who do it. Also, ideally, it is an elite school, students should embrace a challenge and not only have the end in mind (Xatlas has two potential ends in mind, one where a mixture of rigor and good performance is rewarded and another where only the good performance is rewarded by most options) .but merry X-mas.

Also, med school admissions is much more complex than the GPA cut-off. I take for granted that @Xatlas will be able to hold a good enough GPA ( they are good and neuro major there is not that stringent: https://as.vanderbilt.edu/neuroscience/major/course-checklist-major/ It overlaps well with pre-health requirements in terms of the cores. The “requirements” are fairly flexible except one category…not really anything that truly puts them in a position to damage their GPA. It isn’t structured so that there is a clear weed-out course or two that students must all go through.). Math there is also fairly flexible:http://as.vanderbilt.edu/math/manage/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/math_major2.pdf . The only time I get squeamish about pre-healths is when those majors are not flexible and say that ALL majors must complete a certain core that isn’t typical at other places…then there is additional exposure to weeder courses. But honestly, in Xatlas’s case, most of the “weeders” are actually the pre-med requirements and not ones exclusive to the majors. And they seem to be doing fine. And regardless, they should keep their mind open. I would rather close on that note of encouragement and solidarity. They seem like a strong student. They can do whatever they want. If they don’t get into medical school for who knows what reason, they can do other cool things. They won’t be left with no options.

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@Senior2016M I’ve talked to staff and students at Vandy, and you can double major in ChemE and BME. There’s information about it on their website and I know someone who’s doing it

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Yeah people do double major in chemE and Bme. I know someone who is doing it and he’s doing very well.

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