Vassar College or University of Richmond

College Search & Selection
1

Dear Everyone,
I got accepted into the University of Richmond, and off the wait-list recently, at Vassar college. My long-term college expenses are almost the same(13,000 USD) however, at Vassar I’m getting international loan which makes my expenses 9500 USD. I’m a Boatwright Scholar at Richmond, but I’ve heard really good things about Vassar.

Expenses aside, Which college do you think is better? What are your opinions on either colleges, their strengths and weaknesses ? How are graduates from either schools doing? Any additional advice and recommendations would be highly appreciated, since I need to make a decision on which college to attend.

I’m an International student, from Nepal. I’ll probably be majoring in a STEM field(Physics, comp. sci, or math) , but am interested in exploring other areas.

2

Go to Vassar. URichmond is a great back-up choice for certain eastern small colleges, but, it is very different from them in some ways. UR graduates a large number of business and accounting degrees which are not considered liberal arts subjects in the traditional sense. Most Vassar students, including the STEM majors, will have an entirely different attitude toward learning and a life of the mind generally. U of Richmond’s influence essentially ends once their students land their first job. Vassar’s lasts a lifetime.

3

Vassar: Fine-arts/English-major veneer laid over substantial academic programs in other disciplines as well. Intellectual students. Gender imbalance, though real, does not differ significantly from the national average. Beautiful library, new science building. Recognized by Forbes for being worth the expense: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2017/04/26/10-expensive-colleges-worth-every-penny-2017/#5d4aa0285f6a

URichmond: Substantial endowment tends to support top facilities: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4546120

4

Go to Vassar. For STEM it gets a little messy, as Vassar is … not that great … for physics (according to students) or math (according to my prof who taught there). For computer science, Vassar’s curriculum seems more theoretical than Richmond’s. I’m not so sure about Richmond’s focus, but I imagine that as a school with an accounting major, Richmond must have a curriculum suited for finding jobs.

Also: don’t worry about international loans. You will figure those out. If Vassar will cost your parents less right now, go for Vassar. Also I’m willing to bet that in grad-school terms, Vassar > URichmond.

5

Current UR student here double majoring in Math and CS (will be a senior in the fall), who is also a Scholar (for music).

I don’t think you could go wrong with either school, but I would think long and hard before turning down UR’s offer.

UR has a really strong physics program and solid math and CS programs, as well. The benefits of UR also include the fact that becoming involved with undergraduate research is really easy and also strongly encouraged, which benefits you when applying to grad schools. You can get involved in research as early as freshman year. In terms of job placements, we have excellent career services and placement in STEM fields. Google regularly recruits from campus, among many other companies. UR’s CS program includes theoretical classes in its core, but the really nice thing is because of the electives in the major, you can really tailor your classes to what you want to do. For example, I’m actually interested in going into crypto and security, so I’m able to take classes like databases, computer networks, operating systems (for the understanding of parallel programming), and computer security to fulfill classes for the CS major. CS majors at UR don’t have any problems finding jobs- most have them lined up well before graduation. Some of the skills you need for grad school or jobs aren’t immediately visible in the title of the classes, but we learn all that is necessary. For example, all CS majors graduating from UR will know at least (in terms of computer skills): Java, C++ and (basic) C, Linux, LaTeX, Data Structures, Algorithms, Computer Architecture, Assembly (at least MIPS), Design/Implementation Programming Languages, test-driven development. That’s just what we learn in the core classes.

Also the Richmond Scholar is a huge deal. You get lots of perks with that you wouldn’t have at Vassar. Priority registration and guaranteed on-campus housing really aren’t something I would give up. You also have the scholar stipend on top of the Richmond Guarantee, so you basically have two guaranteed summers of research/“unpaid” internships (funded by the school) available right there.

Also not true that Vassar is better than UR for getting into grad school. For STEM, what matters is what classes you take, how you do in them, and research experience for getting accepted- that’s not dependent on what school you went to. UR has a small program, so you get to know your professors better and therefore, you’ll have better recs. It’s also not unusual at UR to get your research published which is a huge deal as well.

6

One of my Ds graduated from the University of Richmond last year, with a double major in Biochemistry and CS. Science programs at UR are excellent and well supported. She had a great experience, was able to do research with a professor starting freshman year, with paid internships each summer. She was well prepared for Phd programs and received offers from Duke, UNC Chapel Hill, and UVA.

The UR campus is gorgeous, dining hall food is great, and there are many clubs and activities to get involved in. Downtown Richmond is 10 minutes from campus, with lots of great restaurants, museums and historic sites, nice parks. There is also an Amtrak stop 4 miles from campus, so traveling to Philadelphia, New York, Washington DC is very accessible.

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https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/infographics/top-feeders-phd-programs

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I could be mistaken, but from what I have heard, Vassar is very liberal; U Richmond is more conservative. That may/may not be important to you.

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Go to Vassar. Excellent academic environment - encourages critical thinking. Richmond reportedly has a heavy Greek life, if you want that, as Vassar had no frats/sororities, then go to Richmond. If not, go to Vassar.

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@2017fromNepal…Wrt CS and Physics:The new science center is stunning with state-of-the art equipment and labs. https://science.vassar.edu/

Don’t take the Forbes ranking too seriously. It has numerous flaws.

11

I based the theoretical comment on the sole fact that Richmond does not require its students to study computability and complexity, but yeah, guineagirl96 makes good points. The priority housing point is moot because Vassar has guaranteed housing for all four years. However, OP, you have to think about equally what culture you would prefer; URichmond has fraternities, Vassar does not. Think about the kind of student that would be drawn to Richmond versus Vassar. Think about whether you prefer an open curriculum or a college with requirements. Think about super liberal students vesus … not as liberal of a student body. For instance, I would be shocked if there were Trump supporters at Vassar; at Richmond, it would be hardly surprising (http://www.thecollegianur.com/article/2016/11/silent-minority-trump-supporters). These kind of students would make me, as an international student, feel very uncomfortable.

There is a lot to think about; you are blessed to choose from two fine schools, but don’t base it simply on one factor. If you are looking to simply go into industry after you graduate, which is the norm for a lot of CS majors at LACs I know well, you could go to either school and turn out fine. It’s mostly a decision of fit… and, as a student at a school more similar to Vassar than Richmond, I obviously have strong opinions. We recently hired a CS professor from Richmond; when I meet her this fall, I’d be interested in know of the reasons why she decided to move. I wouldn’t be shocked if it were for reasons @circuitrider mentioned.

Good luck!

12

UR is pretty liberal. There are some conversative students at UR but they are the minority (and the trump supporters are largely unaccepted by other students… there were many protests on campus and in the city after his election). Not to get too political, but UR is extremely supportive of its international students (which are 10% of the student population). The school administration has sent out emails reaffirming its positions on things throughout the year and making sure students know that the rules on campus, regardless of national laws/policies (LGBT protections, helping students with immigration status, allowing students to stay on campus if they can’t go home for whatever reason).

Also Greek life at UR is pretty isolated and does not really affect campus life much- like I said, I’ll be a senior in the fall, and I’ve never been to a Greek party. Same with many of my friends.

@International95 if you are talking about the school and the professor I think you are (they’ve been my advisor and I’ve taken multiple classes from them), I don’t believe she’s leaving UR permanently (although who knows, that may change). I’m pretty sure it’s just a visiting professorship, which is something that happens from time to time, especially with profs that are well regarded in their field. She in particular has done a lot of work in increasing diversity in CS and STEM in general.

But like I said before, Vassar is also a good school and I don’t think you’d go wrong with either choice.

13

@guineagirl96, she was hired as a tenure-track professor; 100% sure. I went to her talk when she was interviewing for the position, and she was hired as an associate professor. I guess it’s standard for faculty to be on leave from their current post to see how they like the new school. I also suppose that she would want to get tenure (which would take 2 years) before quitting Richmond permanently. One of our economics professors was on leave as she went to Wellesley for a year and got tenure there in a semester (apparently it paid 1.5x more); she came back the next year, citing that Wellesley students are just obsessed with grades and want to simply go into IB.

14

Thank you for your replies! It is really helpful.
Just a little bit more detail about my interests: I’m actually not very sure about what I’d want to study long-term. The areas that I’m thinking of exploring include: Mathematics(Stats focused), Computer Science, Biology, Psychology/Cognition, Physics, Economics and Political science. Topics that I tend to enjoy include: Probability, Game Theory, Cellular automata, Simulation, Evolutionary theory, Human Cognition, Choice and decision-making(social psychology), Moral Ethics. On the one hand, I like thinking about how intelligent systems acquire and process information, while on the other hand I like to think about how knowing how individuals and groups think and behave(data) can be used to manipulate systems to produce optimum results or predict the future behavior of such systems. What kind of system(Biological, Human-social or Machine) I would be interested in modelling, analyzing and manipulating, I’m not sure, and hope to figure out in college. What I know right now is that whatever field I go into, I will be using plenty of Mathematical/Computational modeling and Statistics, and therefore will be taking plenty courses in this area.

Your insights have been very helpful. It’s a very difficult decision to take, and I’m using all the resources I have to try and know more about both colleges as best as I can.

Hope there are more insights and opinions to come…

15

Btw, @International95 , quote “Vassar is not that great for… maths(according to my professor)” This is something that concerns me as I’ve heard this comment elsewhere too. What are your opinions on this?

16

Regarding your interest in econ, both UR and Vassar appear to attract accomplished faculty:

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uslacecon.html

You can read through these sites for indications of the popularity of various majors:

https://www.niche.com/colleges/vassar-college/majors/

https://www.niche.com/colleges/university-of-richmond/majors/

For example, in a recent class, Vassar enrolled 22 math majors, UR 19.

17

Honestly, I would suggest asking on the Vassar subforum to see if you can get input about math and physics. I talked to a physics alum a while ago and he did not seem that thrilled with the program. For psychology and biology, Vassar is very good.

18

Know 3 2017 Vassar grads with relevant experience: a CompSci major who is going to work for the NSA, a Math who is going to Cornell for PhD and a Physics also going to Cornell for PhD (who broke records by being accepted to all 12 PhD programs applied to, including 4 of the top 10, and 5 Ivy League programs). All had done lots of summer research, 2 starting the summer after first year through the URSI program.

Apparently there is one math and one physics prof that those students feel should be avoided, but they are seen as outliers. The math dept has 2 newish profs (one last year, one 3? years ago) who students already consider stars. Physics students were happy with all but the one teacher (though they were sorry when they lost one teacher to Yale b/c there wasn’t a tenure track position open at Vassar and there was at Yale). All three loved their time at Vassar and feel that they were very well served both academically.

Vassar has very few requirements, so you can build a course to suit you, but you might look at their Science, Technology and Society program. Fair warning, though: it has a reputation for being very rigorous.

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Curious to see if you made a decision?

20

When did UR become so wealthy??? Vassar is, in elite circles, a global name. However, if you go to a great grad school, that will neutralize the disparity of name recognition. I’m from the southeastern U.S., and the schools people talk most about are Duke, Davidson, Vanderbilt, and Emory. Also Washington & Lee has ascended to a high ranking in U.S. News; it’s a good repository for high-scoring, ant-intellectual, right-wing frat douches. Of all the southern schools, Davidson probably has the most serious mandated intellectual life while Duke is largely what you make it.