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<p>Yea you’re probably right. There’s definitely not biology majors carrying 15-18 unit courseloads while interning in labs, or pursuing undergraduate research. Or Engi majors loaded up with 5/6 unique courses, all the while toiling in the computer labs gulping down Red Bulls to finish group design projects.</p>
<p>You don’t fight gross generalizations with gross generalizations.</p>
<p>Jesus Christ! This has turned into a pointless thread.</p>
<p>Regardless of how many facts and/or stats are pointed out by either side of the argument, chances are the other side won’t be swayed. Can we all just agree to disagree?</p>
<p>This forum is meant to help students and their parents when they need it. So why don’t we stick to answering the questions that are asked and stop giving unsolicited “advice”?</p>
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<p>Try computer science at a top-20 or even top-50 program. Worth the investment for sure.</p>
<p>As I stated in an earlier post, MT like any arts major is fine - just don’t take on a lot of debt in obtaining it. It’s all about what kind of lifestlye you want - low pay and high debt equals misery. Maybe the answer is a lower-cost arts program without all the overhead of traditional four year colleges.</p>
<p>ANDS!–Or 6 year architecture program students staying up till all hours to finish a project with bandaged fingers from Exacto knife cuts from the LAST project. :D</p>
<p>^^ha…I have one in musical theater and one in architecture and both involve LONGGGGG hours!</p>
<p>Well, speaking as an MT major, I’ve noticed that a lot of people in my life (and apparently, also on this thread) consider themselves sort of experts on life. Everyone’s got an opinion and they all think that they are right and need to tell the world because their way is obviously the best way.
Actually, there are lots of different people and thank God there are lots of different majors to accomodate them. All majors are needed.
Another problem is that some people seem to think that the value of a career is based on how much money you make. I am always devastated when someone tells me how lucky I am that my parents are supporting me, because theirs wouldn’t do the same for them. I know a talented violinist who was forbidden to study music in college. I think it’s the most terrible, sad thing in the world to teach your child that success, happiness, and life is all dependent on how much money you make. Not that I think that an MT student–or any student for that matter–should accumulate massive amounts of debt. You just need to be smart.
For people who think that MT is an “easy major”: HAHAHAHAHA
I am looking at my schedule for next year, which, as someone said above, is chock full of classes, many of which are one credit.
Lastly, for those of you who have come trolling onto this forum, I fail to see what you gain by bashing MT majors and their parents. We are not doing the same to you and I’m not sure why you seem to have such great dislike for those who love the arts. Show a little respect because the world needs all sorts of people, not just math and science people. </p>
<p>Oh, and in response to the original reason for this thread, I have gotten “…and what do you plan to do with that?” in snide voices many times and I usually just grin and say “perform!” They can think what they want, I probably won’t even know most of them 4 years from now. And then on the other hand, I’ve gotten very supportive responses with people saying things like “can’t wait to see you on broadway!” which is not quite as awkward but still a bit awkward since, while broadway would be awesome, it is not the only thing I can do, nor is it necessarily my only career goal, nor would it be a measure of my career or success.</p>
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<p>Yes, I am. I did not say that biology, math or English majors don’t work hard. I said that they don’t work any harder than MT, music and theater majors. That is not a generalization. </p>
<p>It is certainly undeniable that many MT majors could successfully switch places with those in other majors but it does not work the other way around. That’s just common sense.</p>
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<p>Of course it is a generalization. Not for the least of which is that you offer no quantifiable definition for “working hard”.</p>
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<p>You’re an “art” ■■■■■. This statement simply proves that.</p>
<p>I suspect that most non-MT folks posting here don’t realize how competitive admission to MT programs is. </p>
<p>Most schools have capped MT admission of ~20 students. At top programs, fewer than 2% of those highly trained performers who audition are admitted.</p>
<p>That is the factual basis for cartera45’s claim that folks in most other majors would not have much chance of being admitted to an MT program, while most MT majors could have been admitted to many other majors.</p>
<p>8.9% of applicants were admitted to Med School in 2010, with the top 10 Med schools admitting ~4% of applicants, yet only 2% are admitted to top MT programs.</p>
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This is such an utterly naive statement it bears examination.</p>
<p>First off, MT is a professional degree that confers a BFA, which is dramatically more sequenced and “closed” than the subjects with which it’s been grouped. As such, at the more rigorous programs, you not only have to have outstanding stats, but you’ve also had to distinguish yourself and trained in HS, which usually involves years of private lessons plus a robust repertoire. If you meet all of this criteria, then you still live and die by your audition. The only thing “pleasant” about rigorous study, unbelievably long hours, stressful deadlines that can’t move and the constant judgement/criticism of peers, directors and the public at large is the satisfaction of doing something you love and improving at it and having your contribution move people.</p>
<p>If the folks in “hard” majors, by which I assume the poster means STEM, don’t experience “pleasure” from doing something they love, improving their capability and moving people with their contributions or innovation, they shouldn’t be studying that major! Because the people who are “good” at STEM actually do feel as passionately about it as MT students feel about their pursuit.</p>
<p>I wonder how a STEM undergrad would feel about having to “audition” for his or her spot at a Coe - eg submit a portfolio of evidence that they’re already accomplished at eng 
At my son’s school, there are 6,000 students in it’s top engineering college, and about 80
undergrads in it’s MT program. Which do you think is the harder program to get into?
His degree is a BFA in the music/performing arts college whereby 4 students were selected for his discipline his year. He could easily have been an eng student, with exceptional math aptitude and a GT program background. You will largely find that many music and theater students indeed have the stats to pursue engineering or any other discipline they want (at least, this is true at his school – some of his peers dual degree with eng) but they follow their hearts, which in this case, leads them a different direction. I would hope the same could be said of eng students – but some of these posts make it sound like the only reason folks pursue STEM fields are for the jobs, which might explain why my recruiter clients have such a great deal of difficulty finding the kind of stem grads they want – if you ask them, they’ll say they’re looking for grads with demonstrated passion
and innovation. </p>
<p>At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what you study. What matters is who you’re being about it ;)</p>
<p>Kmcmom…great post…agree with you on all you wrote.</p>
<p>Kmcmom - so well put!
However, don’t expect ANDS to admit being wrong. Anyone as unknowledgeable about a topic as that who butts into a forum populated by experts in the field and never the less presumes to lecture them on their own area of expertise, (art trolls! how quaint) is unlikely to have the grace to admit they are wrong.</p>
<p>Fortunately we don’t really need or care about ANDS approval.</p>
<p>There are kids that have a talent and a love for computer science that should take computer science in college, there are those that have talent and a love for biology that should take biology, and there are kids that have a love and talent for music and theater that should take music theater. It’s not a terribly hard concept.</p>
<p>Those who have entered the thread that aren’t here normally seem to continually raise the point about cost effectiveness. And no one can predict that, for any high school senior regardless of what their aspirations are right now. A statement is made above that spending the oturageous amounts of $$ colleges demand today can be justifed if you go to a top 10 or top 50 computer science program. To which I guess I would say: duh. Kids that would get into such a program would likely be in the top 0.1% of all computer science students, and as such they posess two things, I would predict: 1. unique talent and 2. a love for what they do. I would maintain the top 0.1% of music theater students would also have more opportunities and liklihood of success (including financial success however one defines that) in their field.</p>
<p>In the end as a parent I support my daughter, which means we discuss the positives and negatives of her choice of what to pursue in college, we discuss financial concerns, and we make sure she has all the information she needs to make the best decision going forth. Isn’t that what all parents do, regardless of their child’s choice of career path?</p>
<p>Oh, and as far as paying off the debt, with the way the market and economy is going and with two kids yet to put through college, at last estimate I will be able to afford to retire when I am 123 years old. So I have plenty of time to continue saving to help pay for costs!</p>
<p>I don’t understand why people whose kids are not in the arts have to have any opinion at all.</p>
<p>Those who disapprove can fight it out with their own kids, if necessary.</p>
<p>My H majored in business and learned nothing. He was a very talented photographer and started a studio and created a 1/2 mill a year business that he completely mismanaged. I have a PhD in English and had to step in and manage the business until digital destroyed his basic client base and it became too computer based to do the same work. He had the skills, but the computer work was so labor intensive that it was hard to keep up his income level.</p>
<p>Now he’s a financial planner.</p>
<p>My point? He studied business but had skills in the arts. He would have been better served studying that because his business skills remained limited. He just doesn’t think that way. I hate business (and a college professor) but was born with that kind of head and managed the business without any training.</p>
<p>I studied English because I loved it and work in that field.</p>
<p>I would not deny my kids the same opportunity.</p>
<p>They were both performers but didn’t have the temperament (or maybe even the talent) to pursue it further, but for those who do? Brava and bravo.</p>
<p>What a dull world we’d live in if everyone majored in STEM, not to mention dull campus communities. The breadth of knowledge and career fields makes colleges and real life all that much more interesting. </p>
<p>For all those who poo poo majoring in performing arts, I wonder if they ever watch movies, see theater, listen to music? If so, and they enjoy such things, somebody has to do them!</p>
<p>The “drive-by” comments on this thread that are critical of the arts remind me of the Monty Python sketch about the “Argument Clinic” -</p>
<p>M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn’t; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn’t just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can’t. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn’t.
M: Yes it is! It’s not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that’s not just saying ‘No it isn’t.’
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn’t!</p>
<p>Of course, this hilarious sketch was done by ACTORS!</p>
<p>Those who cite engineering/CS as a surefire worth-it degree have not had many engineering/CS folks in their families or colleagues spanning 5+ decades. </p>
<p>As someone whose one side of the family is filled with such folks…I’ve seen and heard of many with degrees from places like Columbia SEAS and MIT who ended up serving years long stints driving taxicabs or serving as SAHDs in decades when that was severely frowned upon by society at large…all because their engineering/CS fields went through a cyclical downturn. </p>
<p>More recently, I have some younger friends who graduated with CS fields right around the time of the first dotcom bust or a few years afterwards. </p>
<p>Vast majority ended up being underemployed or unemployed for long periods and ended up working outside of their fields…met a few working retail or manning the front desks of car rental companies for years as recently as last summer. </p>
<p>Even when the CS field started to pick up…a younger friend at a barely T-50 university counted himself lucky to be one of the less than 25% of graduates to get a job related to that field.</p>
<p>Moreover, I knew plenty of folks working as software developers/engineers and more so…IT without having majored in engineering/CS or MIS. </p>
<p>Some of them majored in fields as far removed as MT, Music, English Literature, and speaking for myself…History. Heck, some never got their college degrees…or even graduated high school. </p>
<p>Ironic considering someone said something about “real talented folks not needing a college degree in MT”…most of my colleagues…especially the older ones would say the same thing about the software development and especially the IT field. </p>
<p>In fact, regarding the latter…the common perception among those colleagues was if one needed to major in MIS/IT in college to enter the IT field…they’re either not very bright or don’t have a real passion/interest in it beyond dreams of lucre.</p>
<p>I am just relishing being called an “art” ■■■■■.</p>
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<p>There is nothing to admit being wrong about. You’ll note I’ve made no comment about the prowess of MT majors, whereas you folks seem to have non-MT majors all figured out somehow.</p>
<p>And please, one can not “butt in” on an open forum (least of all a forum with a topic plastered on the front page). </p>
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<p>I’m sure that has nothing to do with funding. Not at all.</p>
<p>To my friend above: Can this just stop now? You apparently don’t think a MT degree should be as highly valued as other degrees. Many here disagree. The fact remains that high school/college kids have widely differing interests and abilities, and will pursue widely different careers. The successful student (spoken from the perspective one one who is a college professor) is the one that will take true interest in his or her field of work and will put in the hard work necessary to achieve success. That holds true regardless of major. And when they get out in the workforce hopefully that pays off, but there are no guarantees. So let’s just stop, because this tit for tat has become tiresome.</p>
<p>The thread was opened by asking what people say when they hare challenged by having a child go into MT. A multitude of answers now have been given. Time to move on.</p>