<p>^^well, traditionally, arts conservatories are very small. maybe cause of funding, but also because smaller class sizes in non-lecture coursework has always proven to be more effective in any area of academia. since most of the classwork for arts majors is hands-on and therefore a “lab” setting, it makes sense to admit less students unless they want to have a core faculty that numbers well over 10 people. in other fields of study, that many number of faculty members plus some graduate level students is enough to service a large number of undergraduate students. in the performing arts, that does not work. </p>
<p>and originally, acting training was done through apprenticeship in companies before schools became established. it was always a small group of young actors working with their more experienced elders. most of the “top” programs are able to duplicate something similar through small studio settings for classes. many of them also believe in training with a “company” or small ensemble of other actors. there’s something very beneficial to young actors to spend their formative training years with a group of 10-20ish people that they can learn to trust and experiment with in the work room.</p>
<p>there are many people, like me, who can’t imagine going to a program with a graduating class with over 20 people. we like the studio system. i don’t think i could have learned as much in the past 2 years if i had to continually worry about getting acquainted with the people i was going to work with. </p>
<p>perhaps it has to do with funding, but it’s also common knowledge that expansion in anything always puts quality control at risk. if many of these programs had the money to hire more full-time faculty and the ability to admit more students, i’m not sure they would. i think many of them think that a small program is more successfully run and maintained. </p>
<p>i like the tags for this thread: “extreme<em>aptitude</em>for<em>bs, learn</em>to_proofread”</p>
<p>and now i hope to leave this subject forever. i’m getting tired of it.</p>
<p>excuse me but i have a mountain of physics homework to do…after this thread, i’m determined to beat all these engineering majors for the top grade…not many of them seem to passionate about the subject. what a shame…it’s pretty fun. pity for them they’re not in love with their planned profession. if i wasn’t too committed to what i’m studying, i’d be pretty stoked at the thought of becoming an engineer, but i guess a lot of people in the world don’t really like the idea of “doing what you love”? no one told my dad to not follow his dreams when he decided to become an engineer at 6. he wanted to design airplanes…didn’t really work out and he now designs blood testing machines. big failure at life right cause he didn’t really end up doing what he had imagined for himself…and there was a time when he worked in a tuna packing factory and another as a dishwasher for some restaurant…not too far from mcdonald’s work i would say? obviously didn’t stay there, but everyone ends up doing job stints that pay low wage and have nothing to do with their future career. it’s not just wannabe performers who are waiters and fast food workers…</p>
<p>one more “little” blurb so i can forget this thread lol.</p>
<p>my piano performance major friend feels guilty if she hasn’t practiced for at least five hours a day. then she has studio to attend, rehearsals, gen ed classes, and all the other music coursework like music history and theory in addition to practicing guitar for music therapy which she’s doubling in. she doesn’t even go to a “top” music school…imagine the kids at the big name music schools. us performance majors really don’t work hard.</p>
<p>this entire yr, i was on campus from 8 am - 11 pm most of the time…morning academics, 6 hours of studio, 3-4 hrs of night rehearsal…o 5 hrs of saturday rehearsals…and i’d often have to go home to do hw at night…and somehow i’d have to find time and prep for scene and text work…and try my best to sing for an hour or two a day. o and dialects…who can forget that? i was gulping down as much caffeine as all you more “pragmatic” folk. at least you weren’t on your feet for half of the day…my work requires me to treat my body like an athlete would, but i don’t have the time to do that. that’s easy?</p>
<p>please, stop judging people like me. i understand very well where you come from. i came from that world and find great value in it. my parents are asian immigrants…i know what practicality is and used to be those kids in hs that was always talking about sat scores and ap classes and was expected to follow in my cousins’ footsteps of attending berkeley and ucla and eventually go into law, medicine, or engineering. i’ve been taught that it’s extremely important to find a way to make a secure living so i don’t have to live the way my parents did when they first entered the states with practically no money in their pockets. i do my best not to judge your career choice, so stop lashing out about what i want to do with my life. i think most of the kids and their parents on these forums are a very well-informed bunch of people. we know how risky it is to pursue the arts. it’s a constant state of worry…i don’t think we need people who have no idea what they’re really talking about to talk down at us.</p>
<p>Point to ONE comment of mine that has actually denigrated MT majors. </p>
<p>What I find humorous, is that I actually agree with the frustration expressed in the OP’s message, and clicked through the front page to see what they were talking about. My original comment was focused on the messages in this thread that went from support of the OP’s comment, to marginalization of OTHER majors to buttress MT as a major (I’m sure the irony is lost on no-one). In the rush to “correct” the comments of other posters, some in this thread have simply resorted to the same tactics they feel have been directed at them.</p>
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<p>Oh give me a break. There are people pushed into non-arts majors, and there are people who run to it, arms wide open. There are miserable people in quantitative courses, just like there are miserable people in arts majors. This idea that there is some monopoly on self-satisfaction is ludicrous.</p>
<p>i’m ashamed at always being sucked into these forums…</p>
<p>ANDS! i agree with you that it is wrong to marginalize other majors. the only reason why i did it and why i think other people did it was out of spite to people who posted rude comments about us getting degrees to work at McD’s and other people trying to school us in the statistics we’re all pretty well aware of as if we’re all stupid. </p>
<p>i give my respect to people studying any major. it’s not my place to judge what they’ve chosen to major in. and yea. i get it. i know. there are miserable people in every field. if you didn’t notice, right after that i wrote about my dad who is also an engineer who loves his job and would continue to do engineering work for free if he ever decides to retire simply because he thinks it is fun. i was not judging a person going into the sciences… and usually the miserable arts majors are the ones who generally quit and leave to do something else cause the pay off is not worth it if you don’t absolutely love it. i was only commenting on how sad it is to see people committed to going to school just for a money making career end goal rather than perhaps pursuing something that’s somewhat practical but also something they’re really curious about. i get there are some people from low income backgrounds who are trying to build a better future for themselves and bravo for them…but oftentimes those are the kids i see pursuing their education with fervor. it’s always the kids from more well to do homes who have gone to college simply cause mommy and daddy made them rather than a real passion for learning that baffle me. they’re kids who definitely can take the leap of studying things that are a little more risky but i see them forcing themselves to study whatever it is their parents have outlined as possible career paths. those were the kids i was commenting on. if you’re given an opportunity to do what you want and you’re actually good at it, why would you ever not? that goes for everything, regardless if it’s science, math, art, business etc.</p>
<p>I’ll just add that, in my experience, Music Theater programs are well aware of the miniscule percentage of people who actually make a living on stage and aren’t shy about reminding their students about it. They make sure people graduate knowing how to work stage crew, production, and direction.</p>
<p>To the OP, whose original query has been so camouflaged, and to anyone who studies, teaches, or works in the arts, I’m just posting this quote (attributed–I think correctly!–to Kurt Vonnegut):<br>
“The arts are not a way of making a living. They are a very human way of making life more bearable. Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven’s sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possibly can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country</p>
<p>And of course, as most of us recognize, college is there to make us wiser, more skilled, more compassionate, more open-minded. That’s why we study the liberal arts, from sciences to languages to humanities to arts. Soak it up, and best of luck to all the kids and their parents who know there is more than one path through the proverbial forest. I for one am grateful for the supportiveness that characterizes most members of the CC community.</p>
<p>I’ve spent quite some time lurking here on the MT forums, and have always been so impressed by the kindness of all the regulars, who go out of their way to be helpful, thoughtful and encouraging. </p>
<p>I assumed all the forums on CC were just as positive. It would appear this is not true. I was actually very shocked to read some of the posts on this thread – posts which intentionally denigrate students and their parents, which go out of their way to be insulting and to inflict emotional injury on others, simply because of the college major some students have chosen.</p>
<p>There is a word for this kind of behavior. It’s called bullying. I’m very sad to have found it here.</p>
<p>@Times3, I am the OP, and I want to thank you so much for that quote. I had not remembered that quote … I love Kurt Vonnegut, and this quote makes me love him more.</p>
<p>Mommy5, I think others are reading this thread because it is featured on the main forum discussion page on CC. They did not venture to the MT Forum, in other words, but opened a featured thread.</p>
<p>Right, soozievt. That accounts for the highly uncharacteristic nature of this particular thread. Uncharacteristic for us, anyway. You know, you would think, given the competitive nature of the performing industry, that this forum would be even more full of snark and backstabbey nastiness than the usual (have any of you ever perused the Ivy “chance me” threads? What a riot) but instead it’s the warmest most wonderfully self policed forum I’ve run across. I have no idea how bad of a year my D and I would have had last year without the support we got here. I have made friends in this forum that are now IRL friends and it’s just really heartening to know that there are people who are so wise and compassionate. We don’t all agree on everything all the time but it’s always respectful.</p>
<p>If someone truly has outstanding talent, there’s a chance he or she can make a good career in the arts. My H works in the entertainment business (animation) and has had more success than he ever imagined way back when he was in art school. At an animation awards ceremony we attended, one of the musicians who won an award thanked his parents for not killing his dreams of one day writing ukelele songs for a yellow sponge.
That being said, H did NOT encourage our D to pursue a career in show business as it is very fickle and involves a lot of luck. There was a time in hs when she thought of majoring in music, but she decided to take a different route in college and is happy that she did. She is a talented trumpeter, but not VERY talented, and didn’t want to be a high school band teacher if performance didn’t work out. When my community college had an opening for a music teacher, there were over 200 applicants, all very qualified (Juilliard, etc). Scary. However, some of our friends also in the entertainment industry have encouraged their kids to follow in their footsteps. It seems to break even: those who tell their kids, “Follow your dreams”, and those (like us) who say, “Get an MBA”.<br>
Yes, there is a lot of work in Hollywood for artists, actors musicians, writers, but it is not secure. Some hit it big, some struggle, and a lot fail. All I can say, having seen this world firsthand, is - good luck to you, and don’t send my H your kid’s portfolio. He gets so many, you wouldn’t believe it.</p>
<p>@tptshorty: ok, I’ll swap anecdotal evidence with you - my brother is a successful composer and music director and he would encourage anyone who is passionate to follow their hearts and pursue a career in the arts. He followed his dream by majoring in music against the express wishes of my dad and I am so thankful that he did (all my dad would say is, “unless you are going to write the next ‘Stardust’ you are wasting your time”). My brother would not have been happy doing anything else. He started composing music in middle school and has not stopped since. It wasn’t easy, it took him five years to get his first piece published. But he supported himself as a church choir director and now he has more than 400 published works, ran his own publishing company before selling it to a major house, has been commissioned to write works for major events, has traveled the world as an invited clinician, and now, among other activities, is music director for a Shakespeare festival where he gets to work every summer with Equity actors in musicals. </p>
<p>While I made decent money with my MS in Computer Science, the software that I have written and the development projects I have managed will be obselete in a few years. Meanwhile, my brother will leave behind a great legacy of composing, conducting, directing and performing that has lifted the hearts of thousands. His compositions in all likelihood will still be performed decades from now. I sure am glad that he didn’t listen to my dad’s “practical” advice.</p>
<p>My d can think of doing nothing else but MT. She may never grace a major stage but we fully support her pursuit of her life’s goal - the skills that she will develop will serve her well in whatever career she ends up in. I have no doubt she will leave behind a wonderful legacy even if she only sings as a volunteer for kids in hospitals. My wife has an MBA and I have 3 STEM degrees, but neither of us would blankly recommend that she or anyone else “get an MBA” unless they were genuinely passionate about a career in business.</p>
<p>Success and failure is not measured by the size of a paycheck.</p>
<p>By the way, when he was running his publishing house my brother welcomed compositions from any and everywhere and would have graciously offered that your kids send him their works.</p>
<p>Going back to OP - my short answer is “NO” – I don’t tire of justifying MT because it gives me a great opportunity to discuss how genuinely HAPPY my kids are. We live in LA where many friends are employed either directly or indirectly in the entertainment industry. (Directly: actors, directors, writers. Indirectly: A man who makes “crew jackets”, a woman who does post-production accounting, a couple who work in music licensing, etc.) Perhaps it’s an LA thing, but most people here seem to “get it” – they realize the gift of being able to follow your passion and try, because you’ll always regret it if you don’t. And we also see that there are MANY career paths in the entertainment arena that are very creative and fulfilling both in and out of the spotlight. :)</p>
<p>To offer a bit more perspective on this – the average college football team has ~125 players. The top 10 MT programs in the US have, in total, ~250 students.</p>
<p>If a kid is admitted to one of the top 10 MT programs in the US, it is as if there were only TWO college football teams in the US and your kid got onto one of them.</p>
<p>The kids admitted to top programs fall into the VERY talented category, and relatively few schools in the US have ANY MT program, so those admitted to ANY program are likely far above average in skill and/or passion.</p>
<p>I am also in the entertainment biz – I am a screenwriter, and I teach screenwriting at a top film school here in L.A. Both my kids want to be performers (one in music, one in MT). Great. I will support them in every way, I will pay for the lessons and nag them to practice, I will open every door I can. BUT they already know that a life in entertainment/the arts is not easy. Fulfilling, yes, but one of the hardest roads there is to travel. They have seen my husband and I be out of work for <em>years</em> at a time, have heard the words “I’m sorry, we can’t afford it” all too often. But they have also seen how things can turn around overnight. </p>
<p>Non-professionals think jobs in entertainment are easy – writers, actors, dancers, etc. But that’s because, when those jobs are done right, part of the trick is to make it <em>look</em> easy. A job in MT, or any other entertainment field, is hard, hard work. Much harder than anything a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer has to do. It is physically difficult, it is emotionally difficult, it is intellectually difficult. But if you let it <em>look</em> difficult, you’ve failed. (This is true for screenwriting too, btw, if anyone’s interested.)… Hence the confusion on the part of the trolls visiting this thread: They’ve been fooled by the magician’s tricks and think what our kids do is easy. Ha!</p>
<p>I tell my students: If there’s anything else you could do that you would love as much, go do that. If this is what you love more than anything, stick around, and I’ll teach you how to do it well… I think if we are honest with our kids about how hard the road is, there is nothing left to justify to anyone.</p>
<p>I don’t think that counts as irony. Curiosity perhaps. Certainly not irony. What would be ironic is someone chastising one group of people for doing something, and then engaging in that same behavior while doing the chastising.</p>
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<p>That’s. . .some really bad math and the populations you are comparing really aren’t that similar (in design or function).</p>
<p>Reference copied from another thread but thought it fit in well here:</p>
<p>As Quinn Strassel (B.F.A. in Theatre Performance at Michigan, '01) wrote in his commencement speech (referring to parental support),
"Though you knew we were bright enough to become doctors, you allowed us to become artists. . . . Doctors discover new ways of helping us live longer. But artists discover new ways of helping us live better.”</p>
<p>I suppose one can put a negative spin on the quote, but I think all that he meant was that both (doctors and artists) have important societal value and to thank the parents for allowing their chidren to pursue their passions.</p>
:)</p>