Venting: anyone else tired of justifying MT?

<p>^^I think that is key…parental support to allow one’s kids to pursue their passions, no matter what they may be.</p>

<p>I have to quibble with mtandbassmom, who claims “A job in MT, or any other entertainment field, is hard, hard work. Much harder than anything a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer has to do. It is physically difficult, it is emotionally difficult, it is intellectually difficult.” Honestly, I can think of dozens of jobs that are much harder physically, emotionally, and intellectually than MT or an entertainment field job, such as soldier, firefighter, police officer, pediatric oncologist, neurosurgeon, nurse, migrant farm laborer, even prostitute. Imagine having to tell someone they are dying of cancer, or their child is dying of cancer. I would think that would be pretty hard.
Anyway, sure, let your kids pursue their passions. Who knows if they will be the next Kristin Chenoweth or Neil Patrick Harris? The guys who created “South Park” work extremely hard and are on their way to an EGOT (Emmy Grammy Oscar Tony). They didn’t take the safe route. Life’s a crapshoot. Just raise them to be resilient.</p>

<p>This subject should never be a race about what field is hard, harder or hardest. It depends on who you are.</p>

<p>I for one could never be on stage for anything. I lack the talent and the guts. I’d need a Xanax drip to even contemplate it. I’m in awe of my daughter who clearly is not a chip off my block for sure. </p>

<p>I for one could not be a deep sea diver. I get claustrophobic and eels look too much like snakes. I’d panic. I could not be a steel worker on high rise buildings. Not so much for my own fear of heights (I’m sort of OK with that) but because I’d imagine people I care about would fall off and that would paralyze me.</p>

<p>I could maybe have been an engineer or financial analyst, but I suspect I wouldn’t have liked either profession very much. I could stand in front of an audience of 1000+ and deliver an excellent marketing presentation on something that I believed in and probably convince you to buy it. Well at least in my prime for sure. (It has been a while.) </p>

<p>I think could drive a city metro bus or subway. I’d love to. Haven’t done either yet but I think I’d be good at it because I’d enjoy greeting people and watching the world go by and I’m a good driver and have a good sense of direction.</p>

<p>What is hard is a function of who you are. Theatre is REALLY hard for me. I’d prefer having toothpicks hammered up my fingernails than to attempt it and I am in awe of those who make it look easy. Holy crap when you stand on stage and the lights are on you, you look out into total darkness. Are you talking to yourself? Is anybody out there? Walking a steel beam 50 flights up or diving 100’s of feet below the ocean surface would be really hard for me. The people that do it I would love to have drinks with. Engineers and financial analysts, … not as hard for me. I’m married to you, got my MBA with you, did OK in math with you and I sort of know the secret handshake. I completely respect you and I get what you do even though I’m not one of you. Ditto for the marketing and sales people. I was you for a while. Metro bus/subway drivers, I don’t know you but I am incredibly appreciative of those of you that do it well and I know it is hard sometimes when really difficult people will not pay, or are incredibly profane, violent… etc. Hard job that I’d actually like to try even though I might not be good at it. </p>

<p>This is not a race. It takes every kind of people.</p>

<p>Wow. Just spent about an hour reading all the replies to this and I can’t say I’ve laughed out loud multiple times at the amount of ignorance and close mindedness that has been occurring on this thread. If you can’t see or value the importance of art, well that’s too bad for you, but I just find it hilarious when those types of people try to pick fights with those of us who are highly involved in the arts. It is really not something for you to judge or have an opinion on unless you have experienced it firsthand.
I just graduated high school and am planning on going to college next year. My mom is a special Ed teacher and earns about 30,000 a year. My dad is unemployed and has been for four years. Not because he uneducated or unqualified, simply because of how ridiculously competitive the job market is for ALL fields of work right now. You can’t imagine how tight money is around here and how much we’ve had to cut back. Despite experiencing firsthand what the life of a struggling artist is probably like, I am still choosing to major in MT and I think it is the wisest decision I have ever made. I am so passionate and in love with what I do, there is no amount of money or stubborn opinions that could persuade me from doing anything else. It’s not just a career, it’s a lifestyle; I am a full believer that actors and all other artists for that matter live a life that is much more abundant, informed, and aware. So to everyone out there who says that MT is a pointless route to take in college because it will not be worth the money, the struggle or the countless other pains, I can assure you IT IS. And frankly, why do you care anyways? I think deep down within everyone against the arts is a small amount of envy. They just don’t have the guts, bravery and spunk to do what we do.</p>

<p>Halflokum (post 162)…So well put. I am not quite getting the comparisons with other career fields made here either. </p>

<p>Also, while many jobs, including being a performer, are hard work, if someone is very passionate about the work, it may not feel that difficult because they just love doing it. I think that is how my kid is with music and theater. She is ALWAYS working 7 days per week but she opts to take that all on as she is just very into it. She goes so far as to create more work for herself than she needs to do. On top of paid jobs, she even does some non-paying ones due to sheer interest. It really is not so much a job to her as it is a core of her being. Yes, it is work. Hard work. But it is really who she is as a person. </p>

<p>And I think this is true for others in many fields of work who do what they do out of love for it, money aside. And others work for a paycheck and that’s that. So, MT is not unique this way. There are other fields that are not only hard work, but where some who do it are in love with the work so that it doesn’t seem like work.</p>

<p>Well, this is finally gone from the front page of CC…maybe all the haters will go away now!</p>

<p>I hope not. The “responses” from MT majors, and the parents who love them directed to the “haters” is beyond fascinating.</p>

<p>Characterizing non-MT CCers as “haters” is odd. I love MT as much as anyone ; I am so excited to see “The Book of Mormon” when it comes to my city in the fall. We started taking our D to shows and paying for music and dance lessons when she was a little girl. I truly respect the arts- my H makes his living as an artist. In sum, I am not a “hater” just because I would be worried if my D had decided to major in the arts (music in her case). Actually I think we are all worried, no matter what they major in. It sucks out there. Good luck to all of them: engineering majors, nursing majors, musical theater majors, anthropology majors…I majored in Asian Studies and Linguistics, for chrissakes.
Never gave a thought to what career I would have. Fortunately, it turned into a good career in ESL, but I wouldn’t recommend that to anyone right now, either, unless he or she wants to live overseas the rest of his or her life. Might as well major in MT. What the heck.</p>

<p>I’m inclined to agree with tptshorty although I am a MT CCer. In fact, I’m not in disagreement with many of the posts from outside the MT regular community either if you can subtract the snark or mean-spiritedness of which there is plenty flowing. There is good commentary underneath much of it and clearly it has proven worthy of discussion because we are now on page #12.</p>

<p>I’m an MT convert. I was dragged into it because my daughter simply could not help herself and frankly, she’s pretty good at it. She could major in a STEM field (I had to look up what that stood for but now I know) and it wouldn’t be a shock to those that know her either.</p>

<p>Many of us have had years of catharsis when it comes to getting used to the idea of embarking on a professional line of work where the odds of financial stability are scary (theatre is but one of those lines of work… you all know that the list extends well beyond the arts etc.). However when it comes to MT specifically, it is unreasonable for people visiting the MT forum to have the same level of understanding since they are just dropping in on the idea. I get that but I think part of why we MT-CCer types feel defensive is because we aren’t dopes just because after years of practice, we concluded that we needed to drink the Kool-Aid. Some of the posts suggest otherwise and that is hard to read. </p>

<p>Back to the OP: No I’m not tired of justifying letting my child go into MT. It was never a case of letting her. It was a case of understanding her.</p>

<p>went and saw fela today…it’s been a while since i’ve seen a musical, especially a musical that i actually really liked. but it reminded me something.
yes, i do theatre because it’s what i love…but it’s because i want to learn to tell stories and honor the stories of people from all walks of life and the passion and guts that it takes to live their life.
and i think the reason why this thread has been ****ing me off so much is how much i see people disrespecting each other and trying to belittle people who have opposing views of things…why are we trying to put people down on a internet forum!? and i’m talking about people on both sides of this issue. i played a part in it to…half of it, however, was sarcasm but i guess it went undetected as some things are on the internet.
what makes any of us better than the person working at a mcdonald’s drive-thru?!! why does a college degree entitle us to put down the people working blue collar jobs. just because we went to a place that made us read a lot of textbooks and take tests and write papers. yea, we’re more “educated” but we’re not any better than them. they’re people too. honestly. this is just ridiculous.<br>
if someone is trying to make something of their life, in whatever way they wish, that should be lauded.<br>
let’s not be those stupid high school kids who obnoxiously kept trying to make fun of the group on one episode of “community” for being adults at a community college…sure the kids were supposedly on the fast track to going to an ivy league school, but that didn’t make them any better than anyone else.
shall we get back to our lives instead of spending our precious time on a forum? yea. ooh oohh quote time: “the opposite of war isn’t peace. it’s creation.” yea, let’s go be productive instead of wasting away at a computer.</p>

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<p>It’s sad to see people who extoll the virtues of the arts and how they make people so fulfilled, open, etc. express such a narrow-minded opinion. Maybe if they got outside their own little world occasionally they wouldn’t have such a hard time handling ideas that differ from your own. A bad case of cognitive dissonance perhaps!</p>

<p>I do notice how all those in the arts are quite happy to mingle with the artistically challenged STEM/business crowd when they are fundraising to keep their non-profit performing arts organizations afloat.</p>

<p>Almost three days, two pages and twenty one posts ago. It would be nice to see this thread move on please.</p>

<p>With respect, your second paragraph is a large generalization on both sides. No doubt many STEM majors would not consider themselves artistically challeged and for sure, arts organizations are happy to mingle with any crowd that supports their endeavors - gratefully so. That is not a bad thing is it? By way of analogy, one doesn’t have to have cancer to support research in curing it. Thankfully…</p>

<p>In response to the rude comment regarding. If your daughter was that talented she wouldn’t be majoring in Mt. Ignorance at times needs clarity.<br>
If you ever went to a Broadway Show and read the playbill, you would know that to work on Broadway, one rarely if ever “Just Gets Discovered”. The actors bios you will read will contain the various universities in which they studied.
To perform on Broadway, one must get an agent. Usually agents are secured through a “senior showcase”, held in New York the senior year of the graduating student.
If and when picked up by an agent, the various shows, contact a casting agent with their needs. The casting agent then contacts a talent agent that will generally present 2 to 3 candidates that fit the role.
After 5 or 6 agents present their 2 to 3 canditates. Those 10 to 18 candidates, audition, then get call backs, then another call back, and ultimately hired.</p>

<p>Without the educational background, you will never be found, regardless of your talent.
As for the cost. It is extreme. However, my son did a television commercial his sophomore year of high school and made more in two days of shooting than I “a high school teacher, with an advanced degree”, make in a month.</p>

<p>I want my son to Love what he does. I want my son to know that he pursued his passion with passion and a short sighted dad didn’t hold him back.</p>

<p>Oh, and by the way, he will have a bachelor’s degree when he is done. A bachelor’s degree in basket weaving is more valuable than the lack of a degree by about 6 times the lifetime earning power. (and contrary to common belief, a bachelor in music theatre can be an is an acceptable degree to pursue an MBA or even Law School.) I know because, I know these people.</p>

<p>So, if he decides to leave acting. He will be much better off than if he didn’t.</p>

<p>Actually, you don’t need a degree or an agent to book a Broadway show. </p>

<p>We have a very good friend who is 18 years old, graduated high school in May, who is making his Broadway debut tonight in a show that every other guy aged 6-26 would give his eye teeth to be in. He is very smart and very talented and was in the right place at the right time… The dance captain for the same also show made his Broadway debut at 18 under similar circumstances 4 years ago and this is his 3rd Broadway show. While my kids are both pursuing BFAs in MT, these 2 friends from our hometown whom they danced and performed with for years, took a different path. Neither is better or worse, right or wrong, just different.</p>

<p>Let me guess - NEWSIES - just a shot in the dark.
It is always a numbers game and the odds are against you as a musical theater performer.
The chances of getting into a Broadway show - slim, The odds of maintaining a career on Broadway -slimmer. There do sometimes come stories of folks that get these great breaks - and there are also stories about folks that win lotteries - long odds in either case. Once in a while there is a wave of shows that decide they want really young performers -NEWSIES, AMERICAN IDIOT, SPRING AWAKENING - this increases the possibility of going from High School to Broadway. But, by and large and for the most part - the degree is very helpful.</p>

<p>Yes, by and large, a degree is very helpful, I don’t disagree. But you can get cast on Broadway without a degree and a BFA no more guarantees you a role on Broadway than the lack of one excludes you. </p>

<p>bdaydad made it sound like the one and only way to be cast is thru the BFA route and that is just not true… There is no formula. And even with a BFA, “the odds are (still) against you as a musical theater performer.”</p>

<p>As I said, both of my kids are in BFA MT programs and my son, in particular, would have loved to auditioned for every show you named, along with the WEST SIDE STORY revival (which you forgot to mention); but he chose to stay the course because he knows that, in the long run, it is the best choice for him.</p>

<p>Since my D has chosen this path, we have had many discussions of what “success” means. If your only measure of success is to be cast in a Broadway show, you are most likely going to be a “failure”. My D has a plan in mind and if Broadway should work out great, if not, she is okay with that as she has other goals. I think that is incredibly important no matter what field you go into, to define success YOUR way and not by someone else. Being flexible is critical in this day and age. That’s why I always can find work with my BFA (non-performing, thank God :))</p>

<p>I didn’t mean to state that a degree was the ONLY way to get to Broadway, any more than playing college basketball is the only way to the NBA. (ie. Lebron James straight from High School)… However, I as a parent expect my kids to have a bachelor degree in something.<br>
The odds are much better with a degree as well as the connections that go with it. My son has several friends that are or have been on Broadway. They were cast as kids when they were in “Mary Poppins”, then later “Thirteen” and now “Newsies” as well as a boy that has appeared in movies and tv shows in LA. Obviously, when casting young people a degree is not the avenue to get there.<br>
And yes, now those kids have an “in” and an agent and talent is a given… degree or not.
And, yes there are “open calls”</p>

<p>bdaydad - sorry if I misunderstood, I was responding to what you said, not to what you meant…</p>

<p>walker1194 - I did not say, nor do I think, that being cast in a Broadway show is the “only measure of ‘success’” - I was responding to what bdaydad said (not what he meant). </p>

<p>What I said is that you can get cast in a Broadway show without a degree and that for some people that is the right path.</p>

<p>I’m certain that the odds of success (whatever that means to you) are much better from a top program but I do wonder if they are any better from any program.</p>