He is a high school senior. He plays flute. He’s good but not conservatory good. He’s academically talented with a good SAT, phenomenal GPA and top 10% of his class. He considered music education before but was discouraged by college music teachers who conducted various honor bands he was in that made comments like “you have to hate money”, “flute players are a dime a dozen so don’t bother” and “if you like something else even 1% then that’s what you have to study because music has to be 100%”. So he switched to physics. But literally two weeks before senior year started he switched back to music education.
Now I am rushing to figure out schools to apply to (no clue what constitutes a good program or how that transfers to employability), making lists of deadlines and requirements. He has always loved his instrument and decided to stop listening to other people, but he’s behind on everything. To top it off he has only visited two colleges that offer the degree. He will apply at both.
Any ideas on where I should start? Prioritizing is something he is still learning to do. He is currently working on pieces for ILMEA audition and another strictly fun opportunity. He is prepping for a recorded interview to go to an all-state conference for students who want to study music education. He has marching band competitions almost every weekend for the next month and the one he doesn’t he is re-taking the SAT. He doesn’t want us pulling him from school because he has a full AP courseload. Most of the schools I’m looking at have little in common for auditions so lots more pieces to learn while also learning music for the 2 high school ensembles he is in. He dropped his varsity sports this year to accommodate all the music but now he has more to do. ANY help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
We are in IL. He’d like to get out of here. Looking at UofMich-Ann Arbor. He wants to look at Texas and Florida for colleges but we just can’t figure out the logistics of him going back and forth since none he is looking at have nearby airports. We are willing to drive so have a decent radius we can do, but not that far. He doesn’t want a tiny school but also nothing much larger than UofIL. Money is a factor so need good merit-based aid and/or need based for out of state student. Sadly some really good colleges are out because of that.
Hi, @UniversityMomOf2 - I can’t totally help with that path, but am a fellow IL person whose S geared up for music majoring. Does he have a state that he would prefer to teach in as a public school teacher? If you had more time, I would have definitely recommend joining, but maybe in this case, watching the Midwest Young Artists Conservatory in Fort Sheridan by the lake, as far as nice example of music performance. There are of course some popular colleges around where teachers are pulled from, such as ISU and NIU. Maybe Elmhurst college (not sure). We drove to U Mich, U Miami, and U North Texas because of S’ instrument. I would fly to some of those for a flute though.
At the 2016 Jazz ILMEA, the director asked the kids - who is pursuing a career in music? Most raised their hands. He asked how many are pursuing performance. Three raised their hands. He said music education is such a more stable and practical (approximate words) that he would recommend against performance and for music ed. Now, the next day, S private bass instructor said he is definitely taking Thanksgiving off because he had worked 45 days straight (performance) with no break.
@goforth thank you for your reply. I will check out that conservatory. My son played in 2017 ILMEA and this year he is auditioning again as well as applying for FMES. U Mich and UNT are on “my” list for him to check out. He is doing an ILMEA clinic/master class this weekend at Elmhurst to prep so he will get a feel for it (although it’s smaller than what he prefers). He did ISYM at UofIL over the summer so at least he lived there a week and worked within the music department. BUT his conductor there is one of the people who made some of the above remarks.
He isn’t sure if he wants to stay in Illinois or not. I think that’s part of why he is looking at schools out of state. He wants to do marching band so wants a college that has one. Prefers hot over cold temps to march in. But knows that’s not the best reason for picking a school. (Nor is picking it because of a pretty campus). He also isn’t sure if he wants to pursue his master’s degree. He knows he needs it if he wants to teach at the college level. He at the very least wants to teach high school students. He works with middle school band students a lot so he knows he would prefer a job at the high school level or above. Of course he will have to see job availability after he graduates. If he had his choice he would go to California but we can’t afford it, especially with his sister in college. She is only one grade ahead of him.
That MYA Conservatory is full of youth, up through seniors in high school. S was in its jazz program, and you would always see your friends from there in the ILMEA ensembles. It is probably the best gathering of young musicians in the region, both classical and jazz.
This youtube video is recent and had some flutes in it: RXczk3O0kwA
Hi there, I don’t have a lot of specific advice to offer but – I am right there with you! My son is going for music ed as well, in some cases with a jazz double major. He’s staying near the east coast for now, but if he heads toward the midwest he would certainly look at Indiana, Ohio State, U. Wisconsin. Further south, I have heard good things about Loyola in New Orleans and I would definitely check out Vanderbilt in Nashville. Good luck!
Be sure to check out the UW (WI) system - Eau Claire, La Crosse and Green Bay in particular - and the U-MN schools for Music Ed. My kid just started at a small IL LAC for music ed (choral), but Eau Claire was next on her list. Both of her choices are boasting near-100% placement rates, and from what the UWEC faculty implied, they are getting calls for placements all over the country long after their grads are set with jobs. UW out of state tuition is also still rather affordable, on a comparative scale. But with teaching you always have to keep in mind where they want to be - some transfers across state lines are easier than others.
The president of “Jazz on the Square” in Woodstock, IL (the square in the movie Groundhog Day) is a music educator and would probably have some insights in the area - I think he teaches young folks near Northbrook for his teaching job. We loved taking S to play at Jazz on the Square. Sorry all my parental experiences were either jazz or drum corps.
He wants to get out of IL but will he want to stay and teach outside of IL? It’s so hard to say when they are 17-18…
I can’t say I have a lot of info on Music Ed in particular, but I can tell you that there are plenty of good schools with good music depts in IL. I would make sure he applies to a few IL schools no matter what. If he is that strong academically, I would aim for schools that will give him excellent academic scholarships.
Music Ed is a lot of kids “back up plan” or what they decide on to be “safe”. Many of those kids end up switching or dropping (my personal observation) so try to make sure he wants Music Ed because he really wants to teach!
To teach ( HS or above ), he will likely need a masters anyway. I wouldn’t dump too much $ into undergrad. If he stays in IL, aim for Northwestern for grad school.
Is there anyone that could evaluate your son and give you an opinion on how well you might be able to expect him to audition? You might get some good school recommendations that way.
My D looked at IL Weslayan, Bradley and Millikin because she was interested in commercial music and they had decent offerings for IL, but she did not love Bloomington and absolutely hated Decatur and Peoria. But I mention them, because she had such strong academics and was offered very nice scholarships at all 3. Location was HUGE in the end for us. (We are pretty close to NIU, but DeKalb…ugh. I do personally know some very successful people that went to NIU though and it is quite inexpensive and not highly selective and I have heard good things about the music dept.)
In addition to the IL schools already mentioned, I’d give DePaul a look. Great Chicago location.
Elmhurst is a great town with a beautiful campus and neighborhood and steps away from the Metra-a short trip into Chicago- but it is definitely a small school and very jazz-heavy.
(I’ve also heard good things about WI for Music Ed like an above poster.)
I recall Vanderbilt having a 5 year to masters program that was very appealing and they meet need (if he wants to go to Nashville).
@goforth thanks for all the info (btw my son is obsessed with drum corps, especially the BlueCoats. We went to finals in Indy.)
@akapiratequeen unfortunately some of the largest out of state colleges are out of our budget. I would love to send him to Vanderbilt but honestly don’t think he could get in due to how competitive the music program is. I will check out Loyola. Thanks for the suggestions.
@cmb1828 I have some nephews and a niece who went through UW campuses outside of the main Madison one. Granted they studied different things but they were all happy with their educations and their parents were happy with the cost. I will check out the ones you mentioned and see if we can schedule some weekend visits before it’s too late. I will start with UWEC. We have North Central in Naperville (small LAC) as his safety school. Lots of scholarships and he can commute if needed. His band teacher got his undergrad there so I know they will prepare him for grad school should he want it.
He decided to for sure apply to UNT. So I am up to 4 colleges he will apply to. Woohoo! I feel like we are finally starting to get somewhere.
@UniversityMomOf2 Before going any further… What are his actual unweighted grade point and Sat scores? I live in Chicago and son goes to Michigan. Very expensive for OOS. Check out Naviance for his school. Depending on your income. Little to no merit.
@dbandmom I asked him the same question and he just doesn’t know the answer yet. I think that is part of why he wants to explore out of state schools. And he wants the “full college experience”. He will be applying to some schools in Illinois. Big ones like UofI don’t give tons of scholarships academically it seems. He has a friend who just started there, was top of the class in school last year and is on Marching Illini. He got nothing for Merit.
I honestly didn’t think I could ever see him as a teacher. When he said he wanted to be a physicist I could see it. All our college searches had been for STEM schools. But he stopped listening to the naysayers and followed his heart. I would like to see him at a school with a good physics program in case he changes his mind but we shall see. He would LOVE Northwestern and is considering applying as a reach school if he gets his test scores up. He has a new private lesson instructor. She has her PhD in flute performance and can give him an honest evaluation.
As for some of the schools you mentioned, I put most of them on the list but his best friend is at Wesleyan. He’s gone there to see her perform and he hated the place. His music theory teacher is a Bradley graduate so I think he should look at it but Peoria? Ick. Millikin we only know from U.S. News, Niche, etc. so it’s on my list to ask his director about. We’ve been at NIU for other events and it is cheap and a relatively short drive for us but like you said… ugh! He will be at Elmhurst Sunday for ILMEA clinic so he can check it out. Vanderbilt would be AMAZING but its a bigger reach than NW thanks to test scores, musical ability aside. I will mention DePaul to him. It’s on “my” list of ones I want him to look at in Illinois. There is a big college fair coming up in a couple weeks I plan to take him to. Maybe it will help.
@Knowsstuff His unweighted is 4.6757. Weighted is 5.2873. SAT needs to be retaken. He is currently sitting at 1370. He’s angry with himself for his English score. It was an off day. But he is taking it in a few weeks hoping to bring his English score up to closer to his math score. If he does that he will be in a much better position especially for universities that superstore. Using Net price calculator for U of Mich, combined with the newest congressional formula for this year’s FAFSA we qualify for a LOT of financial aid for his freshman year. But his dad got a one time bonus this year that kills us for his sophomore year. No idea what the subsequent years will hold.
@UniversityMomOf2 North Central is where my kid is a first year - small world Merit + music scholarships made it possible, otherwise she would be happily enrolled at UWEC.
For Michigan they don’t count +or -. So the highest would be a 4.O .A=4,B=3, C=2,D=1. No superscore. My daughter went to Illinois Wesleyan but just transfered to Beloit in Wisconsin. She liked Ill Wesleyan but loves Beloit. More intellectual curiosity… Coming from her. Illinois State University. would be a good choice and very known for the teaching programs.
Check out Knox College… Cool vibe there and kids tend to like it.
DePaul is a no-brainer to me. Very strong music program. Even building a new building for music. Very strong theater program. and they need music for that also. I live close to there and they have a very strong elementary - I think high school program in music at DePaul weekly. Chicago Children Choir local branch used to be stationed there since my daughter was in it. Great opportunity to teach. Great campus and instate but great location.
NW and Michigan are reaches at this point but still would apply early. Sat needs to be much improved. But who knows also. Michigan had 10,000 on their wait list last year. Make a strong essay. Both schools like touches so visit and talk to the regional schools counselor. Make sure he went/goes to local regional events. Both schools have them yearly and sign up /in.
If you’re going to be looking at smaller schools such as Knox, it might be worth your while to look at Lawrence and St. Olaf which have very strong music departments and your S would likely get some merit. I don’t think either has marching band but still worth a look. Also, Butler and DePauw, both in Indiana have strong music departments with the possibility of merit and Butler has a marching band. Another to consider is CCM, Cincinnati Conservatory. I think they award both merit scholarships and need based aid.
If you are looking at Michigan, consider Michigan State and Western Michigan. Strong music programs and probably stronger possibility of merit than at UM.
@Knowsstuff Thank you for the DePaul information. Definitely makes me more interested in checking it out. Friends from our band program have an older son who is going into his last year there. He is studying game design. They joked my son should create the music for it. I will talk with them about it and contact the school about a visit. I do know NW is a reach with his test score. Thought he stood a good chance at MI but I guess not. He WILL bring up his test score. I just don’t know how much. Regardless I know they are reaches but want him to at least experience the NW audition if he can get past pre-screen. NW is always at the college fair we are going to in a couple weeks so he can do face to face questions with their rep and get things started with asking for a lesson or tour or something… at least find the best person to ask. I think Mich is usually there too. His flute teacher suggested ISU. Had no idea he stood a chance at a free ride. I know they crank out good teachers but don’t know anything about the music program. I will contact them. It’s a short trip to visit.
@cmb1828 I really like North Central. He has lots of friends from band and choir who are there. And the location is great. But his flute teacher bad mouthed it. Said they only care about retention, not actually focusing on the performance improvement. She taught flute there but no longer does. But the price is great and if money gets too tight and he really wants grad school we can make him live at home and save the money for grad school.
@cellomom2 (by the way cello is amazing. Wish my son had taken that up.) I did put Lawrence on my short list for price because of the innovative program. Yes the school is smaller but working in music therapy for the elderly, low income areas, juvenile delinquents, etc seemed to fit him. But he said it’s too small. I’ve seen mention across this forum of St. Olaf so I will be looking it up today. I also have booklets here from Butler and DePauw that they sent out after SAT scores were published so I looked at them but just don’t know that he could receive enough aid. I will take another look. Michigan State was devastating after we did the need based financial aid calculator but you never know what merit aid could be. Wasn’t aware Western Michigan had a good music program so I will look. Cincinnati conservatory on the other hand, when I hear the word conservatory I panic. He’s good on his instrument but he isn’t a virtuoso and there are SO MANY flute players vying for spots.
Last question, and it is off the wall and I hope it doesn’t offend. But please tell me the college music students are more mature than high school with respect to diversity. He takes a lot of crap for being a male flute player. Everyone says it’s a girls instrument so he must be gay. At camps and honor bands everyone assumes it before even getting to know him and in high school even people who know him poke fun at him and make inappropriate remarks. It offends us because we have LGBTQ+ family members and even if we didn’t we don’t think he should be made fun of for it. He is looking for diversity because a) his school is very diverse and b) he wants to be judged for who he is and how he plays and not some stereotype. (Hello has anyone seen the flute player for Jethro Tull?). I’m sorry if that’s the wrong question to ask I do TRULY appreciate ALL of your recommendations and knowledge of the schools you mentioned. I will be having him look at all of them.
@UniversityMomOf2 I don’t know anything about Michigan schools but HOLY COW, that last question got my attention! I think that’s awful and I can tell you that it doesn’t happen here. Our town is very liberal and has a large LGBTQ+ population (and a ton of male flute players on every part of the spectrum)! All of the schools my S is considering are diverse; several of his closest friends are gay or trans and nothing would alienate him more than a comment like that. Hopefully the same is true for the schools where your son will be applying.
I don’t think your S will encounter much of that stereotyping at the undergrad level among serious music students. JMO but judging on my S’s experience which was very accepting of all kinds of diversity among fellow music students.
Some other suggestions in regards to schools to research. If he wants bigger schools that will have a marching band maybe it’s worth looking at some state schools in the central US in states such as Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma etc. and maybe southwest also. Most state flagships will have a good quality music ed program and you may be able to find some relative bargains and or merit for his stats.
I don’t personally know a lot about specific schools but I know some of my S’s classmates from undergrad were looking at schools in some of these states for grad school in music.
Maybe getting too far afield but the University of Utah has strong arts programs and students can become residents and get in state tuition after one year. Plus he also might qualify for merit there.
I suggested CCM because it may be a little less competitive than NW, Vanderbilt and UM and possibly more affordable. Definitely find out what his flute teacher thinks about where he would be competitive. My understanding of schools like NW, Vanderbilt and UM is that for music his admission will be based more on his music audition than his academic stats. His stats look strong enough that if he is admitted to the music school he will be admitted. My understanding for admission at those schools is that if the music school wants him they look at academics just to make sure that the student is strong enough not to flounder in that atmosphere. (Unless he wants to pursue a dual degree).
Merit + music scholarships made it possible, otherwise she would be happily enrolled at UWEC.