<p>I hope you do know that there’s something called an “online forum” in which people can voice their own views, just like this CC forum. Well, it happens to be that the Chinese are also smart enough to use such a tool. By far, internet users in China have surpassed 200 million. Many of my friends in China, including myself, use online forums to voice our own opinions, and political forums are very very popular. You can try a few if you want (and if you can read Chinese; if you can’t, well I guess you claims are at best a limited outsider’s perspective with no knowledge of what people are thinking in China). Here’s my favorite one: it’s called “Xiao Nei Wang” (or “Campus Web”). It’s an online networking style environment with loads of political forums. And yes, you can mention words like “democracy, freedom, dalai lama” and all that stuff. And trust me, most Chinese people posting on their have a better knowledge of Western democracy, systems of government, and news outside China than people here in our little provincial eastern seaboard town next to DC. Sadly, that only confirms the view that most western “observers” are quite outdated or misled in the accuracy and extent of their knowledge of today’s changing China.</p>
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<p>So, the term Communist Government is a purely economic term right? Yes? No?</p>
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<p>Capitalism allows people and businesses to pursue their goals with exceptional freedom. In Communism, everything is controlled. Although the definition of either type of system obviously does not say anything about the Internet (duh!), it is directly related to it. In what kind of system is media more likely to be controlled, Capitalism or Communism?</p>
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<p>Huh? Your logic makes absolutely no sense. In a purely communist government, virtually everyone would be forced to be employed and receive meager wages. If it was a purely Capitalist government, then more people would be employed while unqualified individuals would be employed. However, the people with jobs would have much higher salaries and opportunities. I don’t understand how everyone receiving low wages creates massive unemployment. </p>
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<p>Ha, so, technically China is only 60 years old. Lololololol. I thought we always bragged about our long history. </p>
<p>People living before the 20th century are Chinese people are they not? Since China was so pathetic that it didn’t even have a reliable form of government or basic human rights for thousands of years, you just completely ignore it to support your argument! Pathetic.</p>
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<p>uuuhhh Jimmy said that China mocked the U.S. for not giving women and African Americans the right to vote until the 20th century. Then, he quoted a Beijing newspaper as saying that China had less patience than Americans in this respect. If you can’t see the implication there, then you need to go read some more literature cause your analysis skills suck. </p>
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<p>You actually think I’m siding with them. That’s…ridiculous. When I made the statement about tasers, I was making fun of yucca’s original statement. If you had decent reading skills, you would’ve seen that, instead of taking my words out of the paragraph and twisting it out of context.</p>
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<p>Broad, sweeping statements with no evidence.</p>
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<p>You mean, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom to petition, right to bear arms, right to a trial by jury? Etc…..</p>
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<p>Unanimously? More BS broad statements with no evidence. What does distance have to do with truth? Did every Chinese citizen see what was happening in Tibet? No! Being 3000 miles away is no different than being 1 mile away if you weren’t there. </p>
<p>You can live in ‘Nazi Germany,’ ‘Fascist Italy,’ ‘Stalin Russia,’ and not know what the **** is going on. If China is still primarily Communist politically and socially, then obviously, the citizens don’t much at all.</p>
<p>In fact, the people on the outside probably know more because they are not constantly barraged by CCTV propaganda and others.</p>
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<p>Yep, it’s just for the neighborhood around the White House. Good job!</p>
<p>Thanks Jimmy. I still disagree with you at a very fundamental level, but I think you’re more informed than I am, so I respect your position.</p>
<p>Oh come on guys.
If you walk up in the street with your friends, and then a stranger pops out from no where, are you going to shake his hand and say: “OMG, welcome to be my friend” to him? No, you are going to observe him with curiosity, hostility, and fascination.
Westerners are hostile, they are very hostile just like Chinese are hostile to westerners. Strangers are not suppose to be friends to each other, they will become friend later, but the possibility of hostility is always greater.
That’s just common sense, I can do a survey at western history to prove my point. From that Marco Polo who encouraged Orientalism to modern day capitalist exploitation to asian stereotype to Anti-Japanese fever when Japanese come to buy rockfeller center.
Westerners always like to imagine that their standard is the standard, and that the history has already ended with their fancy liberal democracy(***uyoma). It is not history that ended, it is western history that has been ended and terminated. Instead, the world history is now a global history in which all players have a right to claim legitimacy over all kinds of issues. China does not need to submit to human rights nor does it need to submit to the same standard as the west as long as Chinese people don’t demand it! They are a people with a cultural heritage that is beyond the comprehension of the west. To impose rather than to educate is to risk a clash of civilization. What westerners need to know is a little Confucian wisdom, gentlemen quarrel but they don’t fight. Chinese negotiate and they are willing to negotiate. By pressing Chinese too far, what we will see is their increasing reluctance to comply to the standard you and I subscribe to. </p>
<p>And regarding to the comment butter made about the ignorance of Chinese people. I want to ask you:“Will you know more truth if your father beat your mother up while they hide you under the table or will the perverted neighbor next door who peep into your house everyday for the sake of fantasy know more truth?” It’s just common sense. Westerners have examined China under a telescope of colonialism and self fantasy. The fantasy being that China is a threat, while in fact, it is not at ALL. This form of attitudes is so prevalent historically that even great Napoleon said :“When China awakes, it will shake the world.” and you wonder why are everyone today is talking about China threat, yellow fever, yellow plague. lol It is the irony of the west to see non-western in such a distorted manner. </p>
<p>Olympics is local. It is a local phenomenon for all who accepted western standard. It is not meant to be for the nonconformist, Chinese, Russian, and Middle Eastern. Only by realizing that Olympics is not for everyone can we progress further in the era of increasing global communication. Olympics needs to be critiqued. Especially now, where Westerners use Olympics as an excuse to impose their standard on the dejected disillusioned crowds of Chinese.</p>
<p>Regarding to the sweeping favor towards western standards and western universalism.</p>
<p>We can talk about how well informed people in China are about democracy. But the matter is, hell, who in China use internet cares about politics?
You go to the most popular forums and chatrooms they talk about military, life, and gaming, but few talks about politics. If it is politics they are talking about, they will be flooded by Fen Qin (Patriotic Chinese and internet brigade)
I’d say that Chinese are very patriotic, and you don’t want to be Chinese-unfriendly in China. </p>
<p>Tell me, my friend, what is the last time you see an average joe using internet talking about Isareali-Palestine conflict? </p>
<p>I recommend everyone to go to China and talk to a peasant what democracy really is.Peasants will tell you: “Democracy doesn’t mean nothing cuz it ain’t gona help me grow rice!” In their mind, we see the heritage of Chinese culture. The culture of an autocracy where one emperor controls everything.</p>
<p>When student in Tiananmen marched around in 1989. Peasants didn’t participate because those students just don’t get it. They don’t understand Chinese because they think Chinese are quasi-westerners, while in fact. Chinese are Chinese and Westerners are westerners. We are different, and we are diverse. Chinese can eat hamburger for a day or two, but they will never eat it everyday. Chinese can watch Hollywood and shouting about Britney Spears, but they will never speak about Declaration of Independence. Big Mac is not Magna Carta and Baby Baby One More Time is not We the people. </p>
<p>Lastly, I don’t see Marx as an economist. His theory is very outdated if you look into it. For instance, the labor theory of value. Marx ignored the symbolic value an object may have. He further ignored value that is outside the boundary of the rational mind, which has been used as an engine for consumerism instead of a dead primitive capitalism. Marx was doomed to fail due to his Hegelian idealistic tendency and his speculation that the society functioned as a scientific formula following dialectic materialism. But you know, this man do deserve some credit, kudos for philosophical merit! </p>
<p>Everyone should read Huntington’s Clash of Civilizations. It’s so enlightening.</p>
<p>^ Wow, amazing.</p>
<p>No, I’m not going walk around and hug every stranger I see, but, just based on experience, I can tell you that Americans are much friendlier, especially at dealing with diversity than Chinese people. I will be curious and fascinated, but I’m not going to be hostile. Why? I don’t know that person. As an open-minded individual, my default feeling towards him/her will be neutral, not hate.</p>
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<p>Yeah…to a Communist.</p>
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<p>There’s also something called conservatives. I’m a moderate conservative. Understand? Not everyone is asking for immediate group hug utopia. </p>
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<p>Does Tianmen Square 1989 count as demanding it? Or is it just a few million ‘anti-nationalists’ trying to undermine the people, vanquished by the glorious PLA? </p>
<p>Several times, when the PLA approached the center of Beijing in may and june, hundreds of thousands of people flooded the streets at every road leading to the square to prevent the military from advancing upon the students. Eventually, the military was able to solve this problem with truncheons, tear gas, AK-47s fixed with bayonets, personal carrier vehicles, and tanks with machines guns mounted on top. Does that count as ‘demanding it’ or is it just rebels disturbing the ‘harmony of society?’</p>
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<p>Are you like a Chicom ■■■■■ or something? Chinese people have been fighting for over 5,000 years. That’s why they’re more withdrawn now. So, the Chinese Government follows the teachings of Confuscius!?!?!?!? Are you kidding me?</p>
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<p>Wow, nice metaphor. I would say that the kid hiding under the table knows more. Unfortunately, it makes no sense whatever. It’s amazing how you grossly oversimplify the situation. </p>
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<p>Why is it not a threat? </p>
<p>Yellow fever? I’ve never heard that term before so not everybody is using it, and I don’t know what Napoleon has to do with anything.</p>
<p>Please stop using words and phrases like ‘unanimously’ ‘everybody’ ‘all’ ‘common sense.’ You probably think that’s a cool debate tactic or something but it just makes you sound really stupid.</p>
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<p>Sigh…okay fine. Olympics is local. United Nations is local. OPEC is local. WTO is local. Wait, I know! Science is local. Religion is local. Oranges are local. Planes are local. Wars are local. Mosquitoes are local! You know what, the whole damn Universe “is a local phenomenon for all who accepted western standard.” Yay!</p>
<p>Do you know what local means? Go find a dictionary.</p>
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<p>That’s like a self-contradicting sentence. You should turn stuff like this into two word phrases in your next post so you can have oxymorons.</p>
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<p>Internet brigade! Lololololol. Hahahahaha.</p>
<p>Are you trying to see how ridiculous you can make your statements sound?</p>
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<p>uuuuhhhh, last week.</p>
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<p>The peasants don’t care because they don’t know anything. Of course they didn’t participate. Why did you say that the students didn’t get? Have the students not been living in China? It’s the peasants that don’t get it. The students understand everything that the peasants understand and more. The students learned these things and understood that they were…lacking something. Meanwhile, the peasants just ridicule them and say that change is bad and to stop disrupting the peace.</p>
<p>Well, guess what? Change is happening right now. As we speak, the Chinese Government is becoming more open and the citizens are becoming more thoughtful. </p>
<p>The majority of the relatives on my dad’s side have been living in a tiny village north of Harbin for over a thousand years. Last time I visited, they still had no running water and there were less than 150 people in the village. The government doesn’t even enforce the one child rule there. Do they give a **** what kind of government China has? No! Does it have anything to do with culture? Definitely! Do I care? NO!</p>
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<p>Black and white huh? You can’t be somewhere in the middle? Eventually, if the world lasts long enough, everyone will be of mixed blood. It’s unavoidable. ■■■■, are you in shock?</p>
<p>Answer this question: Am I Chinese or a Westerner? </p>
<p>I am 100% Chinese. My ancestors are all Chinese, mostly Han. Obviously, I have to be one or the other. Right?</p>
<p>If I’m a Westerner, then any Chinese person can become a Westerner simply by changing their beliefs. So, then, all the protestors at Tianmen Square would be Westerners. The Tibetan protestors would be Westerners. The protestors during the Cultural Revolution would be Westerners. I know you don’t want that.</p>
<p>If I’m a Chinese person, then your entire argument is flawed. I love the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. I used to be uninformed and believed that the Chinese government was good and that it was awesome that the PRC kicked out their brother Communists all the way across the country during and after WWII. </p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
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<p>What? Really?</p>
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<p>Based on that, you’re a Westerner, because you’re talking about it right now. </p>
<p>If you simply allowed everyone in China to vote to keep there current government or to strive to achieve what the U.S. has (like a combination of democracy, capitalism, federalism), without any threats or implications of retaliation (really), which one do you think would get the most votes. There lies your answer. :)</p>
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100% chinese ancestor.
and that’s all.</p>
<p>Bush’s ancestors are all europeans.</p>
<p>by the way,some han chinese betray the country and people,that’s what we call 汉奸，洋人的走狗</p>
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<p>我说的，就是汉人的地方
再说了，中国是个多民族国家，西藏是属于全国人民的，包括少数民族，又不是只属于谁。</p>
<p>而且你都说了，几千年前。
那Texas呢，当年还是老墨的地盘呢，后来还不是被美帝强占了。即成事实。</p>
<p>China is a diverse country with different kings of people.Han chinese is only a part of all the chinese people.
Just like whites!=Americans.</p>
<p>btw,圣经管的真宽。连中国的事情都管。</p>
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<p>美帝包庇了不少汉奸，还指望他们帮着反华呢。而且汉奸多了，有啥稀罕的，我见过的汉奸还都挺自豪呢。
西藏下面也有丰富的矿产资源，听说还有石油。</p>
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oh,no,not that bad.</p>
<p>US always bullies and attacks poor countries like China and other developing countries in Asia and Africa.</p>
<p>The funniest thing is that US always pretends to be a good guy who tries to take care and protect poor countries.What’s the excuse to do so? It’s human rights!
United states invaded Iraq for its human rights? Did the people there welcome U.S army? Isn’t the killing of iraq people violation of human rights?
Don’t sell me trash like human rights.</p>
<p>What do you expect the people hurt to react?</p>
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Have you learnt history?This is not only happening today.</p>
<p>Hundreds years ago,almost every western country is invading China,killing tons of people there,taking away the money.
The history of invading China is longer than the history of United States.</p>
<p>It’s crime,it’s violation of human rights（师夷技长以制夷，我以后就和林祥嫂似的，专门和你念叨human rights，恶心死你）</p>
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It’s wrong.
Very few people are interested in Britney Spears now. She was pretty hot a few years ago,but not now.</p>
<p>Many chinese know the declaration of independence,and even affirmative action.
Because Chinese people are well informed about the world.</p>
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啊，我呸！你祖宗是秦桧吧。
Who knows more about California?Someone from Seattle or someone from China?
The distances are not the same but neither one is in california.
It’s not true.You have to pay tax,you have to obey lots of regulations when you do business in U.S,especially after the 1930’s depression.So,everything is controlled.</p>
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It’s not true.
The reasons are:
1.We can know a lot about Tibet without media.Just like,you don’t have to relay on TV to know what’s happening in California. We can go there,we can talk to friends who have been there and we can even talk to tibetan people face to face.</p>
<p>2.Western’s media is more biased. They don’t have to be responsible for what they say.In a country where media is better censored,the government itself has to be responsible for what it is on TV.But in U.S,CNN,FOX can broadcast anything as they want.And nobody can damn U.S because the government is not responsible for that.</p>
<p>It’s like(just a example,not reality)…in China,you can’t kill or insult another person.But in U.S,you are free! You are free to do that and government will not monitor it,will not control it. What’s the worse situation between them?</p>
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you are brainwashed.</p>
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China and Chinese already realized that hundreds years ago.</p>
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Whatever,but you are poorly informed about China.</p>
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<p>YES. You still don’t know the answer after my response? -_-</p>
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<p>That’s why Deng Xiaoping declared China a socialist country with capitalistic elements. Everything belongs to the government, but the people can earn as much as they want. There are low wages, but they aren’t as dirt-low as you portray them. If there are very low wages, then the people won’t be able to support themselves, and so people will try to look for different jobs. If many people are doing this, and there’s no demand for workers, supply outpaces demand and you’ll have a surplus of workers who are trying to find jobs. Fortunately, that currently is not the case in China.</p>
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For the frackin’ last time, communism is an economic term. China is a SOCIALIST country, where everything is controlled by the government. Use the right terms next time.</p>
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<p>It had a reliable form of government during the Ming and the early Qing dynasties before the European invaders came. And where did you get the fact that China had NO basic human rights? If there weren’t any human rights, then how I could be discussing Tibet on the Internet or how would I know that the Chinese wouldn’t come barging in my home right now and brand me as an anti-government person without proof? Anyways, your last statement shows your infidelity to your own country. How can you call yourself a Chinese?</p>
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<p>Congratulations. You are now officially resorting to personal attacks. And I was siding with Yucca at the 2nd statement, not you. If you still want to side with the “West”, that’s fine, but you’re a 文盲. Anyways, I’d rather have a good argument with a person from China than a Chinese (if you are) who doesn’t have the slightest inkling of knowledge of China from China’s perspective, no one else’s.</p>
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hahahaha, definitely.</p>
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<p>Yucca, I don’t quite know how to ask this, but are you… insane? Like, totally crazy? </p>
<p>It’s cool if you are, it would just go a long way towards explaining your posts and the general direction of your argument. Because there’s nationalist fervor, and then there’s hysterically bashing out reality-warping counterpoints that definitely give off the vibe of a slightly off-balance mind.</p>
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Jack4640,I don’t quite konw how to ask this,but are you…moron?? Like,
totally crazy?</p>
<p>I’m telling the truth and you really hate it.Since you know nothing about China,you even don’t know how to fight back.Then,you called me insame,crazy.
Now,I know,what you want.
Unfortunately,personal attack doesn’t help and I don’t care.</p>
<p>Nationalist?If someone who loves his country is defined as nationalist,if somone who doesn’t betray his country to cater to western world is defined as nationalist,I don’t care being nationalist.</p>
<p>That’s all.
I didn’t tell you a story you expected.</p>
<p>What about the part where you’re irrational, paranoid, incapable of separating reality and fantasy, and generally bat**** loop-a-doop nuts?</p>