Your D’s profile from what you provided is stronger than her friend, nursing, excellent unweighted GPA and especially the special Olympics….something Villanova hosts every year with huge campus participation. The business school has become extremely competitive and I’d guess her SAT and weighted GPA coupled with no ED probably contributed to her result.
If she decides on St. Mary’s and wants a second shot at ND she could apply to transfer for sophomore year. There’s alot of interaction between ND, St.Mary’s and Holy Cross. One issue to be aware of however, is that transfers may not receive on campus housing.
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3.98 UW is great. Not sure why Villanova deferred. D has 3.95 UW and got admitted to Business school.
I’m so surprised about Nova and Tulane in your son’s situation as well. I did hear from our school’s counselor that “exploratory arts” (ie: liberal arts that was not a science major) was a particularly large applicant pool for EA this year. Which school did your son apply to? I would think he would get into Richmond. Has he also applied to RD schools?
I hear you, but please understand that the people who are commenting on this board are in the same place as you. We have been to the same admissions presentations and gotten the same advice. And likely everyone of the ‘stats’ applicants worked to figure out their ‘add’ to the VU’ 150 ‘why VU’ and the 250 word essay prompts. People here use stats because it’s the best way to compare outcomes on applications. But also keep in mind those stats also are telling about the applicant - and perhaps more than a subjective essay. Did they excel in a vigorous academic course load, did they do meaningful volunteer work or internships, did they pursue (with success) music or art, were they athletes, were they class leaders, and did they they score well on a standardized test?
It’s a subjective and arbitrary process with so many applicants for the available spots. Yes, I agree that a well written essay could be a decider. But I also think that VU is likely considering retention in its decisions on acceptance.
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Well, I personally agree that stats may be a good way to compare outcomes; and having 3 others that have successfully gone through this process, I am quite opinionated about the way admissions boards should work. My point was that you just can’t count on stats being any type of accurate predictor of outcomes anymore. Let’s face it, with likely half of the applicants to Villanova not submitting standardized test scores, any “science” behind admissions goes right out the door.
However, I (again personally) feel that the whole “yield protection” argument is a bit overplayed. No admissions board has any clue to the “intent” of an applicant. Their job is to select (based upon what they have seen work in the past) applicants who can and will succeed at their respective university. There are other factors, of course, but at the end of the day, their objective is to fill their classrooms and their coffers.
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I suppose the real issue is that the process has zero transparency. Don’t necessarily disagree that yield protection may be overplayed and can perhaps sound like sour grapes. I do think that admissions boards have to look at likelihood to attend and that drives the process in some manner - who knows how much how little because they ain’t talking :). I would bet money that VU has analytics on their retention rate for a student at a Catholic HS from the Northeast vs a Public HS from the South. And that likely has some factor in determining selection on the limited number of acceptances to offer. I suppose that is also aligning with your comment about seeing what has worked in the past. Again, it’s not a transparent process so we are left to try to make some sense for the rationale of decisions.
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The butcher doesn’t want anybody to see how the sausage is made…nobody would ever purchase it again…possibly everyone would become a vegetarian. In college admissions terms, if the “process” was fully transparent, do you think that the resulting public scrutiny would tolerate the accommodations for the large donors, recruited athletes, legacies, and all of the other applicants who are on a preferential glide-path into their respective universities? There’s no way any sane parent would let their kids apply to a lot these schools knowing all along that the “game” is largely fixed, and that there was a hard formula that, if followed to the letter, would still result in an unfavorable outcome. At this point, I’d rather just enjoy the taste of the sausage and have my kid flourish (where they are wanted) in an unfair world.
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I wasn’t arguing that the process should be transparent - I understand why it is the way it is (as do most of the folks on these boards). I was just pushing back a bit on retention being one of the factors (but we have no idea as to the weight of that factor) considered for acceptances.
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Hi! It is actually my daughter - just realized I never said either way:) I wondered that too about exploratory arts and if that can make a difference - she applied exploratory arts because she really liked the idea of not having to pick a major right away and is unsure of a few different directions. There were many at our school who were denied ED and EA so she is feeling a little better that she was deferred with another very strong candidate but it is still worrisome. We will find out about Richmond tonight. She also applied to BC, Colby, Middlebury, Bucknell, UVA, Colgate, UVM (accepted) & Fairfield (accepted). Seem like the same schools for everyone! Good luck to your son!
I saw that stat too!! A previous year it was 20% for deferred getting in so I had been hopeful until I read that!
Is that 10% stat referring to VU or ND? I did hear from our college counselor that the vast majority of VU applications are ED and EA with the number of RD apps being much smaller. Not sure about this year though.
I believe it was ND. I haven’t seen anything for VU, but that is good to know. I guess with EA available at a school, it would make sense that the RD apps could be less. Maybe that is a good thing!
Fingers crossed. Good luck wt Richmond tonight!
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Hey. Nova admission is a game. Apply ED and your chances increase materially. Its the dirty little secret.
My DS applied EA.
4.0UW GPA - usual honors and APs.
1570 SAT (one sitting)
Accomplished musician (played venues nationally)
NHS officer etc
Deferred
Top public HS outside of NYC.
Classmates that applied ED accepted with notably lower stats. On his HS Naviance. He has one of the top 5 SAT scores and GPAs over the past 5 years.
It is a yield game.
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That ED materially increases an applicant’s chances anywhere is neither dirty nor a secret. Comparing the stats for an EA deferral to an ED acceptance is apples and oranges.
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Agree to disagree. Having been through this process before and have first hand knowledge from the athletic front as well as the university endowment front, select schools have quiet “priorities” to improve yield.
At NESCACs, anywhere from 25-40% of incoming classes are athletes that apply ED skewing the acceptance rates and often but not always in aggregate are lower stat students while increasing the competition in ED for the tippy top that don’t have that non-academic hook.
At select Ivy schools, legacy/full pay and athletes were also given preferential treatment in the ED/restricted buckets. It not only improves yield but also is viewed as a source of funding for the schools as it encourages parents to contribute more.
Also, often times, ED acceptances also do not align with financial aid for families discouraging many students from applying due to cost concerns.
Most students and their families are not privy to these nuances.
Ask yourself, how many families know where to find the “athlete” disclosures at the top schools? It is not on the websites of the schools. It is not on the CDS disclosures. They don’t talk about it during info sessions/tours.
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I wonder if you all are saying the same thing to a degree - I think ED full pay with demonstrated interest is going to have a leg up on an EA applicant. We have kids around here with decent stats (nothing earth-shattering) that got into Wake, UVA, and other schools via ED as full payers. Sounds like this year schools like Richmond and Villanova may have required ED full pay (and of course decent stats, demonstrated interest) to have a better shot.
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My philosophical view is that asking 17/18 (and even a few 19) year old high school students to “commit” to just 1 school is somewhat irresponsible by the schools. Life and academics are about making informed choices. Realistically, very few 17/18 year old kids have the maturity/knowledge to make a life changing decision (along with $ decision). Demonstrated interest does not determine the contribution makes to a community. It is a nebulous construct designed to favor the full pay etc.
Competition for students in my mind is a good thing. Eliminate ED and make the schools admit students based on a criteria excluding fake interest like ED and campus visits that schools like Tulane prioritize. It places unnecessary burdens on families to play the game that often times is uneconomical.
I should add, we are a full pay family. I care about students that are not full pay/legacy/athlete. My oldest is full pay non-athlete at a Nescac. My oldest was also admitted into all Nescac schools applied and 8 other schools. Not one ED in the mix. A student with this data hurts “yields” and “acceptance rates” that people blindly use for magazine rankings.
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Anyone deferred from EA write a letter of interest/intent? D22 was deferred but it just says to submit grades and that is it.
She isn’t sure if she should write a letter or not. Is that something you do even if they aren’t asking for it?