Violation of Yale SCEA policy

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
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<p>^ That sounds like something that should be done,* in theory*, but it isn’t. I applied SCEA, and, as a Canadian applicant who has had to guide himself through the admissions process as much as he has had to guide his teachers and guidance counselors, I can honestly say that if anything had to be signed certifying that I was applying SCEA, I would have known about it. The only thing that Yale received from my guidance counselor was my transcript, my IB predicted grades, and the Common App School Report Form (as you can see, there is nothing regarding SCEA/ED on the form: <a href=“https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/SSR_School_Form.pdf[/url]”>https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/SSR_School_Form.pdf&lt;/a&gt;).</p>

<p>Oh, I just found the ED Agreement Form (<a href=“https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/ED_Agreement.pdf[/url]”>https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/ED_Agreement.pdf&lt;/a&gt;) and there is a place for the counselor to sign. This is the only form on which I found room for both a student and a counselor signature, so this type of thing doesn’t apply to SCEA. As such, I would understand if a school were put on a ‘black list’ for having allowed an ED student to apply early to multiple colleges, but the same simply doesn’t apply for SCEA.</p>

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<p>To be blunt, I hate cheaters. This girl apparently made no attempt to keep her actions private, so why should she expect others to do so? I think it is important that the facts be reported to the appropriate authorities, in order to maintain the integrity of the process. If she gets away with cheating, then why shouldn’t all students do it? </p>

<p>If the scenario didn’t really happen, or she made an honest mistake, there will be no negative repercussions, so there is no harm in reporting it. If the GC truly is so bad that he doesn’t know what SCEA/EA/ED are, then this will make for an excellent educational opportunity for him. He can explain his oversight, and if it was an honest mistake, there is no reason to think there will be negative repercussions for the school.</p>

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<p>kaekae: if everyone agrees with what you did, and you think this student has generally bad behavior, then why are you keeping a secret and even lying to her face by allowing her to consult you when something bad is happening to her? </p>

<p>That’s basically as much of a jerk move as what she did first. If this was really so OK to do, why don’t you come out about it?</p>

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<p>Although the people in InvisibleMan023 and my circle of friends (who we generally consider to be our peers) would empathize with us, some of the other people (mainly the girl herself and her friends) would misunderstand the situation, perhaps reacting as many people have here.</p>

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<p>If you wouldn’t mind…could you tell us, when everything has been resolved, what ultimately happens to the girl?</p>

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<p>What disturbs me most here is the “Success!” that Invisibleman posted.</p>

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<p>I am the OP.</p>

<p>That “success” is not for me. I did not apply to Yale (nor did kaekae). It is a success for the thousands upon thousands of applicants who applied early and regular by following the rules. It is a victory of the relationship between high school students and the Yale Admissions Office for its swift response and action. And most of all, it is a triumph of justice, fairness and integrity in the college admissions process as highlighted by the numerous agreements a student must digitally sign while completing the applications. </p>

<p>The fact of the matter is this student broke the rules. Thats it. And if Yale University did not have a problem with two classmates standing up for what is right and reporting this violation then why should anyone else?</p>

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<p>What she did made the smallest of ripples. </p>

<p>What you have done is change lives, mostly for the worst. Your actions have not changed anything for the good. There still are and still will be cheaters. If anything, you’ve shown to them that when they cheat, they should just shut up. No one has benefited from what you have done, no matter how your pompous language makes out your actions to be. Yale would have been barely affected by what she did, if not at all.</p>

<p>What if she had remained silent, as she should have given her actions? She wouldn’t have been caught but for the smallest of chance. She is in trouble not for what she did in terms of violating SCEA, but for her stupidity in believing she could trust peers and expecting everyone to follow underlying codes and ethics. We all know that the not all rules are totally followed; as influential are the unwritten codes of conduct. These same ethics/codes will be found everywhere, whether its your high school or Yale or or Notre Dame or some middle of the road public. And you very severely broke one. There must be some pretty bad blood to lead to this kind of severe action, or you have some sort of disconnect with student culture.</p>

<p>If I were you, I’d be very worried about word of this leaking out. I would never want to be known as the rat who ruined a girl’s college hopes and opportunities, even if she did violate the rules of an institution. If your school ever found out, I really would want to be invisible.</p>

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<p>“We have a community meeting each day. I stress that the most important rule in my class is to be kind. We discuss that tattling isn’t a kind way to act because tattling is mostly to get someone in trouble. I also tell my students that I really want to know if someone is hurting them physically, saying really naughty words, or doing something dangerous. Telling those things isn’t to be unkind nor is it tattling. It really works. When someone tattles during the first few weeks of school, I ask if telling is to be mean to someone or if I really need to know.”</p>

<p>–from a early gradeschool teacher workbook about how to deal with tattling. Who was in danger or harmed? I’m not saying the girl wasn’t wrong, but by the same token tattling isn’t always right. Who learned from this? What was gained by your actions? What will improve in your school because of this? How were thousands and thousands of lives in harm and now not in harm as you claim? How is your school adminstration reacting to your actions? Did you inform them first of the situation before elevating it to the college? I’m not going to pass judgement on whether or not you did right or wrong, simply asking if you thought this through regarding whether the output - the action plan you took was tattling or telling.</p>

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<p>^Good post. I really do believe there is far more to this than just honor, fairness, integrity, etc. Those are just words our OP is throwing out there due to their connotations with good, and his attempt to correlate himself with that.</p>

<p>I believe there must be underlying causes to his enthusiasm in researching and informing Yale of this violation. Whether it be some twisted sense of nobility (certainly can be seen through his most recent post), jealousy, feelings of hostility to the girl, a general meanness or just some disconnect with typical student culture and the unspoken etiquette people follow, I don’t think we can found out. But there is definitely more to this than what they report.</p>

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<p>i have to agree with giraffesz (and momofthreeboys though she is far more diplomatic about this).</p>

<p>pretty ****** move. actually, very ****** move.</p>

<p>if you are truly proud, as your post suggests, of your actions, you should grow the cojones to tell her it was you. Don’t hide behind your actions; bask in the glory that your actions should bring you. I’m sure you would enjoy the congratulations that all your peers would give you. Right?</p>

<p>also, you’ve basically not just screwed her over, but your whole school and its relationship with Yale. as people have said above, you’ve done no one any service. only the bad has come from this.</p>

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<p>it is done. there is no point in telling the OP over and over that he was wrong to tattle, because he did it and it is over. if the girl indeed broke SCEA, i guess she is in trouble now. i have trouble feeling sympathy for her. EDIT: well, it will be bad for the school’s relationship with yale. perhaps OP should have talked to the GC, who could have talked to the girl and contacted yale and thus have averted this problem. but i still don’t feel sympathy for the cheater. sorry. explain to me why we should feel sorry that she, who intentionally broke yale’s protocol, will face consequences?</p>

<p>i personally do not tattle on cheaters, but i might if the situation was extreme enough. there is kind of this unwritten code: my friends and i don’t tell on our peers when they cheat, but we don’t cheat and thus don’t pity cheaters when they are caught (particularly on major exams when we have studied very hard for our grades and are forced to compete with cheaters). i would probably have gone to the GC with this information.</p>

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<p>Some good points above. </p>

<p>No individual person benefits from this. And honestly, I don’t think that fighting for “justice, honor, and integrity” in a process designed to put tens of thousands of teenagers through tortuous agony makes sense at all. </p>

<p>I think it would be pretty easy to name many things involved with the college admissions process that are far more “unjust” than what this girl did. Let me explain that a bit. </p>

<p>There are two types of unjust. One is what’s morally unjust, unfair, or whatever, and another is what’s unjust because it goes against set rules (if you want to argue that breaking rules is morally wrong, then you can do that, but no one will like you.) By more unjust in the college admissions process, I mean that there are very unfair things. Sure, what she did was unjust in that it broke the rules… but who cares? Really, who cares? Are you sympathizing with Yale? It has absolutely zero effect on them, especially since the girl was deferred. </p>

<p>sanguinity, I don’t agree that these people have hurt their school’s reputation too much by contacting Yale. Actually, I must admit that on my first read through I was under the impression that not telling them would hurt the high school, but if we assume that Yale would not have found out, then actually yeah—they’ve done more to theoretically hurt the school now, although I don’t believe it’ll make a difference anyway. </p>

<p>Tres Elefantes, so what? We can still have a discussion about morals, and still allow the original posters to ponder their actions more. Why would you ever not tell someone he or she was wrong to do something if it was already done? I could pull up a million analogies to show how ridiculous that line of thinking is.</p>

<p>EDIT—To respond to your edit, consider a pretty simple extreme scenario. One girl has a bag of candy. While she’s looking away, this girl steals one. As a result, she is killed. </p>

<p>It’s a pretty crude example, but the basic reason WHY you should feel sympathy is a total disparity in magnitude between the original “crime” and the punishment. Yeah, it was a jerk move to violate Yale’s policy. No, you should not automatically be ruined from being accepted at three great institutions as a result.</p>

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<p>i can see your point, starbuck, about both of my comments, and i guess the first was a logical fallacy. however, i do feel a measure of sympathy for the OP: i can’t stand cheaters and while i wouldn’t personally go so far as to report them, i totally understand his frustration. this girl was very open about her gaming of the system and very confident that she would not get reported. that was foolish of her. should the OP have perhaps contacted school administration (i.e., guidance) first? yes. should he have stood by and done nothing if his conscience would not allow him to? i don’t believe so. i guess that’s just me.</p>

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<p>I also would have gone to the GC and the high school administration rather than reporting directly to Yale. But I don’t think what the OP did was wrong, and I am surprised that so many posters think that what the classmate did was acceptable as “business as usual.” What she did was a breach of the SCEA agreement as well as a serious breach of ethics. Nothing ambiguous about it. And since the OP is not even applying to Yale, his decision to blow the whistle had nothing to do with eliminating the competition.</p>

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<p>Shocking posts. You people have no sense of right or wrong.</p>

<p>I think you did the right thing, OP.</p>

<p>(cross-posted w/wjb)</p>

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<p>^i’m glad i’m not alone. :)</p>

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<p>“Shocking posts. You people have no sense of right or wrong.”</p>

<p>Nothing has a monopoly over morality. You fail the analyze the ambiguous nature of morality in this situation. </p>

<p>Our sense of right/wrong is not totally based on what is written; that is far too easy and fails to recognize the complex nature of the world.</p>

<p>I do not doubt at all what the girl did was wrong. What I doubt is whether the OP’s actions were right in the context of how people should treat each other.</p>

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<p>I wasn’t siding with the multiple SCEAer, I was just trying to point out that that girl will run into school with a pitchfork and a mace.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.weaponsemporium.com/WE-Studded-Mace.jpg[/url]”>http://www.weaponsemporium.com/WE-Studded-Mace.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>like that kind of mace, not just a sissy can of mace.</p>

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<p>As a caveat, both InvisibleMan023 and I are currently reading Pride and Prejudice in preparation for our Literature test tomorrow (please excuse any of its style that infuses into our posts).
Upon starting this thread, we in no way anticipated the deeper moral discussions that have since been evolved. In hindsight, the nature of our question of “what do we do?” as having moral undertones anticipated such discussions, but we still didn’t know.
That being said, I feel obliged to remark that extrapolations of our situation into these debates have turned us into a sort of scapegoat. The contention regarding the “morality,” “ethics” – whatever you want to call it – of our actions reflects that the questions we have raised have no simple answer.
Regardless, I daresay that nearly equal amounts of people have supported and censured us. And yes, giraffezs, much of their advice was prosaic enough to call for even you to deign to approve the language.
Let me reiterate that Yale has simply contacted the student at this point. They say that they will come in contact with the school also eventually, but no rejections or apocalyptic blacklists have been dealt. How, then, can one say that we have “changed lives, mostly for the worst”? For all you know, she could have applied to twenty other top colleges.
Many of you suspect that we have ulterior (or, at least, additional motives), and you are right. I have alluded in my previous posts that she has displayed other similarly cheating behavior that perhaps inclined us more to reporting her, but do you really expect us to provide an exhaustive list of said actions so that your suspicions of us will be sated?
Edit: I’m glad to see that at least some people are still defending us.</p>