<p>First of all, I don’t care about you. I’m referring to theskylitup. Second, like I said, if you want to use the idea of a categorical imperative then you would need to explain it in depth (if I recall correctly your one sentence argument doesn’t work) which is what the whole discussion is about anyway, so saying categorical imperative doesn’t really do much.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ve said plenty about the idea. That’s what the discussion is about. No argument was even presented in support of a categorical imperative being relevant. I can’t respond to something that doesn’t exist. My “gripe” was with the way the idea was presented—without support, and hence something that looked 100% like a blatant appeal to authority (hardly even authority, just an “appeal to person we’ve heard of.”)</p>
<p>EDIT—Looking at giraffezs’ first post on this page, it appears that someone said something about not becoming cynical about the admissions process… seriously? Part of the whole reason I don’t care about the person cheating in this way is because the process is so largely bogus already. People who aren’t cynical about it are probably happy enough how it’s turning out for them or straight up ignorant.</p>
<p>Oh please, stop changing the goal posts here. So by your reasoning, quoting any piece of literature, aphorism, or philosophy is to be disallowed? That in order to quote anything/anyone one must follow up with an essay? I certainly can provide my arguments for Kant’s deontology, but why should I when that is so extremely irrelevant to the topic? Will you launch into an investigation of your mother next time she cites an old wives tale? “A rolling stone gathers no moss” (etc). </p>
<p>In fact, apart from an unreasonable attack against quotation - what exactly have you brought to the table regarding ethics or morality? </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nope. My post cited Kant as an INTERESTING figure, and a possibly helpful piece of philosphy to approach the situation. The reason you had nothing to argue with is that I did not present an argument in the first place. If you want me to put it in layman’s terms what I said amounted to something like “hey that reminds me of the time my great aunt…” An ANALOGY, an illustration, a point of interest. Certainly not an assertion of Kant.</p>
<p>Why does it matter if I said it or if theskylitup said it? Your post quoted both of us. I DID explain the categorical imperative AND how it relates to this specific situation. Again, very explicitly. Please explain why it “doesn’t work”–you’re just stating things without backing them up with anything…</p>
<p>^ Exactly. Whilst I didn’t intend this to be a philosophical debate, LBloom DID explain the Categorical Imperative in a way that was succinct and conveyed how it applied to the matter.</p>
<p>Thanks. Basically, I think Starbuck11’s lost sight of the actual issue. Theskylitup brought up Kant’s categorical imperative to make a connection to the issue at hand. I explained it a little more. Agree or disagree with whether the categorical imperative is correct all you want, but regardless it certainly can be applied to this situation. That’s all either of us was trying to show. Not “Kant’s idea is right,” “Kant’s idea is wrong,” but just “Kant’s idea can be applied.”</p>
<p>You guys need to learn how to read. theskylitup said that Kant’s idea applied to the situation and did not provide any additional argument at all. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wow, are you serious? Where do essays come into play? I’m just asking you to back up your argument, because that is what people do in discussion. I’m saying that if you want your quote (and it wasn’t even a quote, it was actually just a vague introduction of the idea) to hold any weight at all, you should make an argument for it. That’s how discussion works. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Read the thread.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Uh… what? My post quoted both of you because I’m pretty sure we aren’t supposed to double post on this forum. I was responding to him/her. </p>
<p>Here is theskylitup’s original post:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>In other words:</p>
<p>[idea]</p>
<p>[idea, ergo, I win]</p>
<p>So if you want to go back and say that you were simply making a casual observation, then that’s OK, but you can’t expect people to respond to it as a casual observation rather than an attempt at an argument when you present it like that.</p>
<p>Hey, Starbuck11: Out here in the world, people often use shorthand (like “Kant” or “the categorical imperative”) to present arguments that (a) essentially everyone in the discussion understands, and (b) do NOT require extensive explanation to show how they are relevant.</p>
<p>I’m not certain what your substantive problem with it is, as opposed to all your complaints about argument style. From where I sit, practically everything in this thread was an argument about the categorical imperative. Relevance isn’t remotely in question. What is interesting is figuring out exactly how to apply it here.</p>
<p>Then theskylitup, if trying to make an argument, should have made an argument, rather than saying “categorical imperative works, so this was immoral.”</p>
<p>I understand what a categorical imperative is, thanks. I also understand how it might apply to this situation, because I said that in my last two posts. If I said it was irrelevant earlier I meant it in a different sense.</p>
<p>OP and his friend might get some crap at school if anyone finds out (at our school, this guy turned in someone for cheating on a math test, and everyone makes fun of him now). but the girl sounds like she really deserved it. how stupid and arrogant do you have to be to TELL people that you violated a major college admissions provision? she needed a wake up call. good thing it came before she entered the real world. and thank god she didn’t take one of our spots at yale ;)</p>
<p>To add to what Sanguinity corrected you with, Stupefy, the OP and his friend already clarified that their school has a different set of conventions.
I would read the rest of the thread’s post more carefully so you don’t need to assume things such as the girl being arrogant.</p>
<p>I also don’t think it was enough of a wake-up call for her. She seemed nonchalant and indifferent in her response to the OP of “Hmm, oh well.” Which, if true, means that she didn’t actually learn from this, which would also be a pity.</p>
<p>^then if that’s the case, she’s beyond help, and it doesn’t matter where she ends up at school if she carries that attitude to the workplace. ethics is important, people!</p>
<p>in any case, this thread needs to be closed. OP and his/her friend have every right to do what they did, and obviously yale felt the same way, as they promptly responded to their query and took the appropriate action</p>
<p>The incident itself did not tick me off so much as the fact that she had it in herself to brag about her “endeavors” to a fellow student (as how else could the OP have found out). This in itself clearly implies that the girl feels absolutely no shame nor guilt at her cheating and lying.</p>