<p>I have the last TJ newspaper edition with every senior and their intended college...The stats match up roughly...</p>
<p>what strengths does Gtown have over UVA? and does Gtown require SAT2s?</p>
<p>IR/Poli Sci? And location. But nothing else, really.</p>
<p>in VA/DC/MD metro area, uva & g-twon are quite comparable. Both are little lower than Duke-JHU level. aha :)</p>
<p>Riiiiiighhhhhtttttt...</p>
<p>If you cant recognize the difference in intellectual experiences between a large state research frat school and a small serious LAC, than I cant help you.</p>
<p>One is like 13th grade and the other is freshman year. The conformist environment that pervades the "grounds" stifles individualism. A questioning envrionment is what college should be all about. When everyone dresses alike in khakis or must rush the "best" sorority then it is not the same as a LAC experience.</p>
<p>Dont get defensive, just recognize when you have star athletes living on the Lawn, its not an academic village. A student body of 15000 by definition, is not exclusive.</p>
<p>"A student body of 15000 by definition, is not exclusive."</p>
<p>On theory you may be right, </p>
<p>but the truth of the matter is: IT STILL IS an academic village and exclusive somehow...</p>
<p>That is the magic of UVa!</p>
<p>You have to be there to experience it.</p>
<p>Been there, done that. Thats how I came to these conclusions. UVa might be the best large state research U in the country. Be happy with that. </p>
<p>Its not Brown/Duke/W&M/Dartmouth.</p>
<p>doctorb,</p>
<p>i don't know if you attended uva, or w&m, or both, or neither, but your perceptions of them are extremely off.</p>
<p>let me translate a few things you said.</p>
<p>"if you can't recognize the the difference in intellectual experiences between a large state research frat school and a small serious LAC, than I cant help you."</p>
<p>what you mean to say is, "I have no proof that an LAC is better than a Uni, or vice versa. However, because of the stigma surrounding the large university, w&m must be better."</p>
<p>some facts for you, if w&m is indeed an LAC (its not, its a research university) its either the largest or in a small group of the largest. (i would hardly call 5500 undergrads a small personal setting). Either way, w&m is either a bloated LAC or undersized research facility.</p>
<p>also that stigma that surrounds a "large university" doesn't affect UVa. Theres a difference between a school like Arizona State with 40,000 undergrads and UVa with 13,000. And for all your complaining about the "impersonal large school" remember schools like Cornell, Upenn, and Columbia are larger than UVa. are they large universities that offer inferior undergraduate educations as well?</p>
<p>your claim that w&m has an "academically stimulating environment" really translates into "nothing to do". i wonder if you've ever been to w&m. even though i'm from new jersey, my best friend goes there - so i've been there several times. he likes it, does well in school, but constantly complains how theres nothing to do. colonial williamsburg isnt exactly bustling. but the htings he does do - and indeed the things i did while i was there - "either go to Frats, or smoke pot in the woods." sounds a lot like UVA (except maybe the woods part...we just smoke pot in our dreaded off campus apartments)! real intellectual right, doctorb?</p>
<p>the truth is, w&m is a great school. no one debates that. However - stating that it offers a superior undergraduate education is a big stretch. If you prefer the school over UVa, thats fine and dandy and you're certainly not stepping down a notch in academic quality. However, i think you'll be hard pressed to prove (which you are - by stating that if i don't get it then i don't get it) that w&m offers a better (or worse) quality education than uva.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Its not Brown/Duke/W&M/Dartmouth.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>W&M isn't Brown/Duke/Dartmouth. The difference in quality certainly is small, and definitely small enough that it'd be hard to justify the cost differential for in-staters, but it's still there.</p>
<p>Like I said, from where I live i.e. MD/DC/VA, one of the most civilized, well educated places in universe, the following is happening. *Caveat emptor- heavily east coast biased *</p>
<ol>
<li> HYP</li>
<li> Duke-Penn-Columbia-MIT-top LACs</li>
<li> Cornell-Brown-Dartmouth-JHU-top LACs</li>
<li> UVA-W&M-GTown-medium LACs</li>
<li> UMCP, W&L, Richmond, GW</li>
<li> VCU GMU JMU UMBC Loyola Towson Catholic Goucher Howard Morgan State</li>
<li> etc. etc.</li>
</ol>
<p>I live in Williamsburg (have since I was 7) and am applying ED to UVA. That said, I really don't see how you can compare the two schools--it really is like comparing apples and oranges.</p>
<p>All you can say is that the two schools have pretty similar GPA/SAT stats and leave it at that. Otherwise they are very different.</p>
<p>The faculty at WM is outstanding. I've met many profs and go to school with a lot of prof's kids. They are very involved with the community--for instance, the head of the econ department worked extensively with my AP econ class on a cooperative project with the Hong Kong International School, and is also the vice-mayor of Williamsburg.</p>
<p>
[quote]
1. HYP
2. Duke-Penn-Columbia-MIT-top LACs
3. Cornell-Brown-Dartmouth-JHU-top LACs
4. UVA-W&M-GTown-medium LACs
5. UMCP, W&L, Richmond, GW
6. VCU GMU JMU UMBC Loyola Towson Catholic Goucher Howard Morgan State
7. etc. etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm from the same area and I really can't agree with that list. For one thing, MIT is by no means considered to be the same level as Duke, Penn, and Columbia. HYPSM and arguably Caltech make up the top tier, while the rest of the Ivies+Duke are definitely one step down. I also don't see any major distinctions being drawn within the Ivies with the possible exception of Cornell.</p>
<p>I do realize the plural of anecdote is not a fact. But the girl I know intimately ;) who got into MIT & UPenn chose UPenn. The thing is there is a big 3 (HYP) after that it becomes really not well-defined. So to appease our fellow Washingtonian, my new list</p>
<ol>
<li> HYP</li>
<li> Other Ivies + MIT + Duke + JHU + Top LACs</li>
<li> UVA, W&M, G_town, medium LACs</li>
<li> UMCP, W&L, GW, Richmond.</li>
<li> same as the previous post</li>
</ol>
<p>Feeling better?</p>
<p>US News listed Brown/Dartmouth/W&M in that order as top commitment to undergraduates. Look it up.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Feeling better?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You keep forgetting Stanford! And if you must distinguish MIT (and Stanford) from HYP, at least put them in tier 1.5, even if I'd still disagree. :p</p>
<p>So where does VMI fit in the overall picture of Virginia colleges and universities? Or is the institute such a specialized choice that it is in own category?</p>
<p>yes vmi is a liberal arts college, so in my opinion at least it would be in another category.</p>