Visiting Grinnell, Whitman, and . . .WHERE?

Parent Cafe
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<p>For families with athetes, I also suggest looking at the academic majors of the school’s team members. Are most students majoring in one or two subjects (where the faculty defers to the coach’s time demands) ?</p>

<p>As a swim parent, I also look at the national results of the teams. D3 schools that regularly place well at national events probably are placing a lot of pressure on these kids and/or maintain “separate and not equal” academic standards for atheletes. These schools would not be a fit for my kids. For example, I show below the d3 national results for men’s swimming. Kenyon, with about 1660 students, rocks once again over much larger schools. How do they do it? The kids are swimming times that (trust me) only can be achieve by many many many hours in the pool and dryland exercise. I don’t dis this commitment or achievement, it is just that I know that it wouldn’t be a good fit for my kid. </p>

<p>Place Team Name Points
1 Kenyon College 635
2 Johns Hopkins University 330
3 Denison University 314.5
4 Emory University 261
5 Williams College 211
6 St. Olaf College 178
7 The College of New Jersey 157
8 Washington and Lee University 143
9 New York University 139
10 Amherst College 131</p>

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<p>All of these data are on [EdTrust</a> - College Results Online](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■%5DEdTrust”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■).</p>

<p>But please, don’t get me wrong about Willamette! Again, my D really liked the school when she overnighted there. It is just that I know that – this time-- we want to do a smaller, more focused college search. S has no interest in endless trips, so we are trying to use some data to get a sense of fit. </p>

<p>In terms of your comments. . .</p>

<p>About retention rate – this is exactly the kind of local information that helps me put the data into perspective, thanks. </p>

<p>About graduation rates, I look at the 4, 5 and 6 year graduation rates. Frankly, this isn’t a strong suite for Willamette. Willamette’s 6 year rate is lower than Whitman’s 4 year rate. Willamette’s 5 and 6 year rate is lower than UC Berkeley’s 5 and 6 year rate. Do you have a sense as to why? </p>

<p>Why a “clear division between each year’s academic class” of interest? My sense is that it would be helpful for my kid to have a clear path, with role models, to graduation. Where I went to college, 5, 6, 7 year academic plans were common. As a result, I don’t have a sense of bonding with any group of peers who marched along at the same pace. I contrast that with my graduate school program and the LAC where my D attends, and I like the clear distinctions better.</p>

<p>grad rates and ethnicity – these data are all there on the site-- and quite interesting. Take a look at Middlebury. 95 percent plus of the White and Asian kids graduate promptly. Only 73% of the african americans do. Something appears to be going on there.</p>

<p>Pell Grants–No, I wouldn’t automatically nix a school just because its Pell Grant percentage is low, but I think economic diversity is a positive factor.</p>

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<p>Lawrence, for sure.</p>

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<p>Momofgrowingkids, one thing to factor into your considerations of swim team rankings is that Kenyon, JHU, Denison, etc. attract and recruit kids who are already swimming very fast. They start with a leg up, for sure, just because they are magnets for kids who are already fast and want a fast D3 team. I would not assume that swimmers at JHU, for example, are disadvantaged academically just because they are on a competitive team. Definitely something to look at, I agree, but I think it’s not a simple fact that being on such a team is necessarily an issue. Since swimming is an individual sport, too, there are probably many members of the team that aren’t contributing to those NCAA numbers because they don’t make it to nationals. My son swims and he goes to one of the schools on that list, but he’s not at nationals… and likely never will be. I don’t think a school’s NCAA D3 standing is a reason, really, to dismiss a terrific school and the wonderful education a student can get there.</p>

<p>It’s interesting the way you’ve deliberated and calibrated your different criteria, but it might be counterproductive to be too formulaic about it.</p>

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<p>Yeah, it’s called Vermont.</p>

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<p>I think it would be all right but this is the sort of question for which a visit would be very helpful. Also, it would be good if he could join a facebook group for St. Olaf 2011 or 2012 or St. Olaf swimmers and “talk” to some current students. St. Olaf is not a boring white bread school; there is some quirkiness there. And I think are plenty of vegetarians at any LAC.</p>

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<p>A few years ago, one of D’s coaches was a St. Olaf student: an independent-minded, Birkenstock-wearing, veggie Washingtonian (not DC!!!) non-religious young lady. She absolutely loved her school.</p>

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<p>Both the men’s and women’s Carleton swim teams are currently competing at the NCAA championships. It is definitely a strong sport at Carleton. And no one would blink an eye at an independent-minded, veggie California Jew. That’s kind of the norm at Carleton.</p>

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<p>A new performing arts center will be opening at UChicago in 2011 as the University places more emphasis on the performing arts. If you are close, the campus is worth a visit.</p>

<p>[The</a> Reva and David Logan Center for Creative and Performing Arts at the University of Chicago](<a href=“Arts Institutions & Programs | University of Chicago”>http://artscenter.uchicago.edu/)</p>

<p>Chicago also has a varsity women’s swim team: <a href=“http://athletics.uchicago.edu/swwomen/swwomen.htm[/url]”>http://athletics.uchicago.edu/swwomen/swwomen.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>There was just an article on Kenyon’s swim coach in one of the major newspapers (NY Times? Washington Post?) last week – I think it was titled something like “the stroke whisperer”. He’s built a tremendous program, gets fabulous recruits who wouldn’t be able to make the time cut at very high end Division I schools like Stanford, and they’re dominant in DIII swimming for quite some time now. The article didn’t give me any sense that Kenyon swimmers were somehow getting a lightweight version of a Kenyon education.</p>

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<p>I read that story too. It was in the NYT. Really great guy, that coach!</p>

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<p>Don’t get me wrong: I have nothing against athletic powerhouses. It is just that my kids don’t belong there. </p>

<p>I also worry that these schools place lesser academic demands on athletes – something that doesn’t serve anyone well.</p>

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<p>momofgk, Actually my son had a friend in his class at Williams who plays jazz sax and is a swimmer. He gave up varsity swimming after a year or so and took up water polo. In my opinion all of the selective LACs would be friendly toward “an independent minded, veggie, Californian Jew.” Not at all an endangered species. They also have good retention rates. Last I checked Williams was something like 98%.</p>

<p>I’m not sure that I agree that all athletic powerhouses placing lesser academic demands on athletes; in the case of top LACs that hasn’t been my observation. The athletes pull their intellectual weight along with everyone else.</p>

<p>I’m also from the midwest (Midwestmom, I love your Minnesota/Iowa joke. My mom used to make the same kind of cracks comparing Kansas to Oklahoma.) I didn’t find a whole lot of difference between the character and friendliness of the kids I knew in Michigan and the my son’s friends at Williams (all of whom are independent minded and some of whom were veggies, Californians, Jews, musicians and swimmers.)</p>

<p>I’d say the question your son needs to answer is whether he would like a rural campus or if he’d prefer suburban or city. My son loved the insularity of the Williams campus and took full advantage of the outdoorsy opportunities, but this environment is not for everyone.</p>

<p>Also, what’s is your financial expectation? Some of these schools offer good merit money (or at least they did last year; this year is unknown.). Many of the most selective have very good need-based aid.</p>

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<p>I loved williams when I visited (on my D’s endless college search) and we have family in the state. </p>

<p>We may do an east coast trip at a later time. This trip is for the PNW and the upper midwest. In terms of $$$, we won’t be need eligible (unless D doesn’t graduate on time). I know Whitman and Grinnelll offers/offered merit aid and Carleton offers a little. Here is hoping.</p>

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<p>Merit aid at St. Olaf:</p>

<p>[St</a>. Olaf College | Admissions | Financial Aid | Merit Scholarships](<a href=“http://www.stolaf.edu/admissions/financialaid/meritaid.html]St”>http://www.stolaf.edu/admissions/financialaid/meritaid.html)</p>

<p>Merit aid at Grinnell:</p>

<p>[Types</a> of Financial Aid - Scholarships](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/financialaid/typesofaid/scholarships/]Types”>http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/financialaid/typesofaid/scholarships/)</p>

<p>A lot of merit aid at Whitman is tied to need:</p>

<p>[Whitman</a> Scholarships](<a href=“http://www.whitman.edu/content/financial_aid/new-and-prospective-students/facts/scholarships-and-grants/whitman-scholarships]Whitman”>http://www.whitman.edu/content/financial_aid/new-and-prospective-students/facts/scholarships-and-grants/whitman-scholarships)</p>

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<p>Whitworth merit with no need component:</p>

<p>[Whitworth</a> University Financial Aid Office - Academic Scholarships for Incoming Undergraduate Students](<a href=“http://www.whitworth.edu/Administration/FinancialAid/ScholarshipOpportunities/AcademicScholarships.htm]Whitworth”>Page Not Found | Whitworth University)</p>

<p>They are FAFSA only which can be helpful in some circumstances</p>

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<p>I have gotten the impression that Whitworth has an explicit Christian school identity… I mean more so than other privates that have founding roots in one denomination or another but are in practical effect secular colleges now. Is that not true about Whitworth?</p>

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<p>Many of those schollies at St. Olaf are stackable. Buntrock/Leadership/NMF would be quite nice. I visited Mac, Carleton, Grinnell and St. Olaf with my D. She was heavily recruited by many DIII, some DI schools in 2 sports. I can tell you that none of these I mention go easier on the student athletes. In the end she didn’t apply to Mac or Grinnell, but Carleton and St. Olaf were in the mix pretty much until she decided which sport to continue, and then all the cold weather schools were eliminated. She will be abroad all of next year, play again when she returns, if she wants. Al are really great schools, but different. I also agree that Lawrence is worth a look.</p>

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<p>I think many universities were founded based on some Christian denomination or another, the vast majority of those have very little hint of any religion at all.</p>

<p>Whitworth does still have a basic religious make up, yet my Dd knows people there of all sorts of religions and of no religion. She said that if you don’t want to have the basic Judeo-Christian outlook around, don’t come there, but that no one forces anything on any one. There are some requirements to take religion classes, but they can be in many different areas.</p>

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<p>Thanks, somemom. That’s pretty much how I understood Whitworth to be. Just wanted to make sure it was correct. My son got a letter from a coach there a couple years ago, and we did explore the website then. Both he and I got the feeling that it had a bit more religious character than was a good fit in his case, but not that it was a Bible College or anything like that.</p>