<p>HS Junior S and I will be traveling this spring break to visit colleges away from our home state (California). Based on an earlier, near endless, college search with an older sib, we have a hunch that Grinnell and Whitman could be good matches for him. Both are intellectual, somewhat offbeat, well run LACs with decent music, social science, and swim programs. We would like to visit one more school, ideally somewhere close to Iowa/Washington. It could be an LAC or a medium size university. Where should we go? </p>
<p>In the Pacific Northwest, we nixed Reed because its music program seems limited and its 4 year graduation rate is so low. We also nixed Willamette and University of Pugent Sound, because these schools don't sound all that much stronger than our (much less expensive) state universities.</p>
<p>In the midwest, we are are considering several schools that are all about 5 hours from Grinnell (1) University of Chicago (worry that its intense reputation might not be the happiest match for S), (2) Carleton (could a californian survive the winters?) , (3) MacAlester (good reputation for veggie food), and (4) WASHU (hear some say that the school's strong focus on its pre-professional programs overshadow its other departments. ) Any schools that we are overlooking?</p>
<p>Oberlin? [though I don't know if they have a swim program] -superb music conservatory
Lawrence? Good music program. fine LAC
Chicago is VERY intense. They don't have a "formal" music performance program - no Bachelor of Music degrees offered, but they do have a lot of students who are musically talented and play in many venues for enjoyment. Private music lessons have to be arranged with outside teachers.</p>
<p>If you are going to visit Carleton, take a look at St. Olaf (could be a safety?). Their men's swim team is pretty strong (won the conference this year and has some D-III NCAA qualifiers), and I've heard good things about their music program.</p>
<p>DD attends Whitworth in Spokane, not as prestigious as Whitman, but she is having a great time and from what I hear they have a strong music programme. Also in Spokane is Gonzaga.</p>
<p>I second the suggestions of Lawrence, Macalester & Carleton in the midwest. LACs are not very plentiful on the west coast, so if you've nixed Reed & Willamette I'm not sure what to suggest in that vicinity.</p>
<p>mom, could you elaborate a bit on the music part? Is your son planning to major in music or does he just want opportunities to participate? What type of music?</p>
<p>I'd recommend Kenyon for midwest, social studies and swimming. I'm not so sure about their music department. If you want to go farther east he look at Williams -- strong for social studies, music and swimming (but cold, snowy winters). Wesleyan for good social studies and music (and somewhat offbeat character) but not so sure about swimming.</p>
<p>Chicago is very very very intense. You have to love to study. The students there are very interesting.
Wash U is not quirky/off beat. And admissions there is SUCH a crap shoot. </p>
<p>Oberlin is awesome for a music lover/vegetarian, assuming son's politics are liberal, but Oberlin, Ohio, is not exactly close to Iowa. (And that's a good thing - *ha, ha - originally Minnesotan and couldn't resist making an Iowa joke - what, you all don't understand Minnesotans making jokes about Iowa? okay... never mind.... *)</p>
<p>While there you could check Carleton then too - they are in the same small city, quite close to the Twin Cities. You are close to Macalester, then, too. Macalester is not particularly well known for music or swimming, but it is really great school and he would find fellow Californians there.</p>
<p>So, you have time for one more school and I am suggesting three. Sorry!</p>
<p>If you are in the area Carleton and St. Olaf are just a few minutes apart. Both have beautiful campuses. Very different vibes but both have interesting, fun and intelligent students. Heading closer to town Mac has much more urban feel. Not known as much for music, more for political feel. I'm guessing it's about 40 minutes to drive from Northfield to St. Paul.</p>
<p>Two young men (one a junior, one a sophomore) I know chose St. Olaf primarily because of their music program and both sets of parents say the sons and families are very happy with their choices. Both are vocalists.</p>
<p>Thank you all. Given your comments and our time/geographic limitations, my inclination is to visit the greater Carleton area, picking one of the schools to concentrate on: carleton, olaf, or mac. I'll mix Chicago due its intensity and WASHU 'cos S thinks he is looking for more of an intellectual LAC experience. In terms of Olaf, do people think it would work for an independent minded, veggie, Californian Jew?</p>
<p>As far as music goes, he probably won't major in it, but his passion is writing/playing/recording popular (folk-rock-jazz-world sound, with classical edges) music. S wants to take music classes and have good musicians to pay with. Swimming is hobby. He is reasonably good, but misses practises for music. S's swimming ability and interest is not on par with the likes of Kenyon, Williams or some of the other LACs/ D3 schools known for swimming. (For example, when we visited WASHU's swim coach several years ago, the coach insisted that swimmers work out 4 to 5 hours a day. "Nothing less than Stanford." And the WASHU athlete's swim times were not that far off from D1 swimmer times. Somehow, sports in some of these D3 schools are losing that "scholar-athlete" balance.) Grinnell and Whitman, on the other hand, have large, happy teams where swimmers are allowed to have other interests. </p>
<p>Finally, I remain curious about Willamette. My D absolutely loved it when she overnighted there 3 years ago. My worry is that it has such a low 4 year graduation rate -- only 66% graduate in 4 years (not much different from the UCs). And the school's 6 year graduation rate is worse than the UCs. Also, only 86% of its Freshman students stay on for their Sophomore year. To me, this suggests that there might be something going on with advising or school administration. But maybe I am missing something.</p>
<p>I guess I should explain my approach a bit. From my last put-me-out-of-my-misery college search with D, I found that all schools kind of blurred to her after a while. They all seemed to have great travel abroad programs, advising, and yada yada yada. I tended, then, to look at a few other factors to help D make her decision.</p>
<p>Specifically, what percentage of freshman return for another year? It is hard to transfer and hard to have your friends leave. Freshman retention rate suggests the extent to which a school delivers on its promises and keeps a happy cohort of kids.</p>
<p>I also look at the percentage of students who graduate in 4 years. This gives us a sense of advising, school administation, and the extent to which there is a clear division between each year's academic class.</p>
<p>Then I look at whether they are big differences in the graduation rates based on ethnicity. To me, this hints at whether there are signficant divisions between the races in the school. I also look for the percentage of students receiving Pell Grants, to get a sense at the affluence of the student body. </p>
<p>These are other data that I look at as well, but this gets me a start in culling out schools where my kids are likely to be happy.</p>
<p>"Freshman retention rate suggests the extent to which a school delivers on its promises and keeps a happy cohort of kids."</p>
<p>When our D's LAC asked those students why they did not return for sophomore year, the most common answer was that they were surprised by what they found upon arrival on campus. The administration then began an effort to more fully describe the school to prospies (e.g., the difficult freshman "Great Books" course is now mentioned 19 times in the view book), and the freshman retention rate went up dramatically.</p>
<p>"I also look at the percentage of students who graduate in 4 years."</p>
<p>I would use the six-year rate instead. At some schools more than others, it is common to take a semester off at some point. Why "is a clear division between each year's academic class" of interest?</p>
<p>"Then I look at whether they are big differences in the graduation rates based on ethnicity." </p>
<p>Where is this data typically found? I haven't seen it.</p>
<p>"I also look for the percentage of students receiving Pell Grants, to get a sense at the affluence of the student body."</p>
<p>I wouldn't automatically nix a school just because its Pell Grant percentage is low, though economic diversity is clearly a positive factor.</p>