W&M vs. Northwestern

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>I'm deciding between transferring from the Univ. of Utah to W&M or Northwestern Univ. I'm studying math and physics. Coming from Utah, outdoor opportunities are very important to me. I'm not a big partyer. Without sounding too highfalutin, I enjoy a social life centered on or tangentially related to intellectual pursuits. Also, I love bluegrass music and play the mandolin and violin. I plan to go to graduate school to study applied math, although I'm also interested in theoretical physics (I don't know if I'm cut out for it, though).</p>

<p>Some concerns I have about W&M are the lack of off-campus activities and opportunities; the quality (in terms of rigorousness and ranking) of the math and physics departments; lower ranking of W&M compared to NU; availability of research opportunities in my areas of interest; the dominance(?) of Greek life compounded by the lack of off-campus activities; and the distance from family. I'm intrigued by the supposed undergraduate emphasis, Appalachian music ensemble, Virginia's scenery, and the outdoor opportunities. </p>

<p>Some concerns I have about NU are the lack of outdoor opportunities; the weather; the quality (in terms of teaching and undergrad focus) of the physics department; the mid west is not very appealing to me; less of an undergrad focus compared to W&M; a burdensome foreign language requirement (I would try to bypass these courses by learning French with Rosetta Stone, but that may be unrealistic thinking); the dominance(?) of Greek life; perhaps NU seems a bit less home-y and more bureacratic than W&M. I'm attracted by NU's higher rankings, the integrated science program, the supposedly rigorous curricula, and the many off-campus social opportunities in Evanston and Chicago.</p>

<p>I've visited both and I can't say one definitely beat the other in terms of feel. I would have extended family fairly close by at NU which would be good crutch, at least for a while as I haven't been the most socially outgoing person thus far. I'm a bit nervous about leaving home. Although cost isn't really an obstacle, NU is more expensive.</p>

<p>I'd appreciate any help, information, or advice anyone can give. Thank you in advance.</p>

<p>You may want to look at the respective schools’ websites for student clubs that may fit your interests. For instance, there is an Outdoor Club listed in the student club directory at W&M See info below. The James River is close by and there are small beach areas. See link below. In Richmond, you can white water raft in the James. There is a rock climbing wall in the student rec center and a rock climbing club. There’s a running club, etc. My son is a runner so we looked up the trails around campus which are listed on the running club’s website. See below about the close by beach options. Good luck! [W&M</a> Blogs » Getting My Beach Fix](<a href=“http://blogs.wm.edu/2011/06/27/getting-my-beach-fix/]W&M”>http://blogs.wm.edu/2011/06/27/getting-my-beach-fix/)</p>

<p>Outdoor Club
Sports Club
President: Charlie Shobe
Email: <a href=“mailto:outdoorclub@wm.edu”>outdoorclub@wm.edu</a>
Purpose: To get out and enjoy the fresh air of Virginia with some sweet folks who like to play in the dirt and make new friends while they’re at it (for starving-college-kid fees too!)
Website: [Outdoors</a> Club](<a href=“http://wmpeople.wm.edu/site/page/outdoorclub]Outdoors”>http://wmpeople.wm.edu/site/page/outdoorclub)</p>

<p>This was more than a decade ago, but I went to W&M from high school in SLC. My dad was actually a physics professor at the U, which was probably why I had no interest in math/physics whatsoever, but from what I have heard, W&M has historically had quite strong math and physics departments (especially physics) and I’ve always had the impression that those majors who pursue grad school end up in very good programs. There’s data on grad school placement here ([Outcomes</a> Info](<a href=“http://career.wm.edu/CFM/OutcomesIndex.cfm]Outcomes”>http://career.wm.edu/CFM/OutcomesIndex.cfm)), though it’s a small enough sample size as to verge on anecdotal. I hope others here can offer more info on these departments.</p>

<p>When I was looking at colleges, my dad, perhaps hoping that I’d express some latent science gene, suggested the University of Chicago and it’s renowned physics department, but I, like you, didn’t feel much of an attraction to the midwest. I know this is heretical to some, but I just didn’t get what all the fuss was about with Chicago, and it felt even farther removed from Utah than Virginia. (For what it’s worth, and I’m totally trafficking in stereotypes here, I always thought bookish W&M was to the U of Chicago as jockish UVA was to Northwestern.) I find it interesting that despite the huge differences between Chicago and Williamsburg, neither place grabbed you more than the other, though maybe it’s because Utah is so unique that everywhere else–especially outside of the western U.S.–is just not-Utah, which was how it seemed to me when I left for college.</p>

<p>There are very few places that offer the same outdoor opportunities as Utah, and W&M’s equipment center pales in comparison to the U’s, which I remember to be almost like its own REI. (The nearest REI, btw, is in Richmond, though Blue Ridge Mountain Sports is not a bad alternative.) But the outdoors club was pretty active when I was there, and as long as you resist the temptation to view everything as a poor facsimile of what you’d be able to do in Utah, there really is a lot within a few hours drive from Williamsburg. There are tons of biking and running trails around campus. There is good rock climbing, hiking/camping, and rafting in the Shenandoahs. There are plenty of river and ocean fishing spots. The Outer Banks are a doable weekend trip. I learned to sail and row at W&M, which I wouldn’t have done in SLC. The only thing that I really couldn’t do was ski, but between winter and spring breaks in Utah, was still able to get enough days in to satisfy me.</p>

<p>I wasn’t the most outgoing guy, either, but found a good group of friends in my freshman dorm with whom I still keep in touch with and see to this day. It may be a little different as a transfer, but W&M seems to have a lot of programs to help transfers get acclimated and integrated, and I’m confident that you will find people that you connect with. You’re right that W&M has a home-y feel, but it’s large enough that there is a group or a club for everybody. About a third of the student body participates in the Greek scene, and if that’s your thing, it can dominate your social life. If it’s not, you can have a social life without ever interacting with it. Either way, I don’t remember a distinct line between Greeks and non-Greeks. Most people were really, well, collegial.</p>

<p>W&M folks tend to downplay the importance of rankings, but the truth is that people pay attention to them, and they can matter, especially if you’re interested in management consulting or I-banking. I think Northwestern’s alumni network, brand name, and global reach are all very tangible benefits. However, if you’re aiming for grad school, I really don’t think the difference between W&M’s rank and Northwestern’s matters much at all. So in your case, I would suggest trying to base your decision on other factors.</p>

<p>While the rankings might not matter so much, the financial situation of the respective schools does. Northwestern as A LOT of money, and all that money allows Northwestern to build the best facilities, offer the best amenities, and hire the best staff, all the way down to the department secretary that you will probably interact with more than you think. Those things can have a big impact on your college experience.</p>

<p>Personally, I hope you choose W&M, because I like to see my home state represented there. Feel free to PM me if there’s anything I missed or anything you’d like to ask off-line. Otherwise, good luck with your decision! You’ll be in good hands either way.</p>

<p>One of my sons will attend WM next year (pre-med/biology) and the other one is majoring in physics and his choices came down to UVA and WM (chose UVA, which also has a strong undergrad physcis program but for reasons having to do with the “total college experience” that do not seem to apply to you)</p>

<p>Re physics, WM is very solid. It has a new physics building (past 5 years), emphasizes research (which is a major part of getting into a good physics/astronomy grad school), and coordinates at least some of its research with U Chicago. In addition, as a VERY UNIQUE perk, physics majors have the option to spend their junior year abroad taking physics classes at St. Andrews.</p>