W&M vs. Northwestern

Colleges and Universities A-Z Northwestern University
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<p>Hello,</p>

<p>I'm deciding between transferring from the Univ. of Utah to W&M or Northwestern Univ. I'm studying math and physics. Coming from Utah, outdoor opportunities are very important to me. I'm not a big partyer. Without sounding too highfalutin, I enjoy a social life centered on or tangentially related to intellectual pursuits. Also, I love bluegrass music and play the mandolin and violin. I plan to go to graduate school to study applied math, although I'm also interested in theoretical physics (I don't know if I'm cut out for it, though).</p>

<p>Some concerns I have about W&M are the lack of off-campus activities and opportunities; the quality (in terms of rigorousness and ranking) of the math and physics departments; lower ranking of W&M compared to NU; availability of research opportunities in my areas of interest; the dominance(?) of Greek life compounded by the lack of off-campus activities; and the distance from family. I'm intrigued by the supposed undergraduate emphasis, Appalachian music ensemble, Virginia's scenery, and the outdoor opportunities. </p>

<p>Some concerns I have about NU are the lack of outdoor opportunities; the weather; the quality (in terms of teaching and undergrad focus) of the physics department; the mid west is not very appealing to me; less of an undergrad focus compared to W&M; a burdensome foreign language requirement (I would try to bypass these courses by learning French with Rosetta Stone, but that may be unrealistic thinking); the dominance(?) of Greek life; perhaps NU seems a bit less home-y and more bureacratic than W&M. I'm attracted by NU's higher rankings, the integrated science program, the supposedly rigorous curricula, and the many off-campus social opportunities in Evanston and Chicago.</p>

<p>I've visited both and I can't say one definitely beat the other in terms of feel. I would have extended family fairly close by at NU which would be good crutch, at least for a while as I haven't been the most socially outgoing person thus far. I'm a bit nervous about leaving home. Although cost isn't really an obstacle, NU is more expensive.</p>

<p>I'd appreciate any help, information, or advice anyone can give. Thank you in advance.</p>

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<p>W&M is a very good school but not a peer college with NU. Unless the cost difference is significant almost everyone would choose NU but only you can answer most of the questions you ask in your post.</p>

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<p>How difficult is it to transfer in to either school? I have no idea, but maybe it would be wise to apply to both and see where you are admitted?</p>

<p>Our kids also enjoy outdoor activities, and grew up with big mountains, but I’d say D is busy enough at NU that she primarily pursues those hobbies over holiday breaks. NU seems to have an active ski group (they do trips) and there are sailboats available on campus. The lakefront trail system seems great for running.</p>

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<p>I have been admitted to both.</p>

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<p>SAY, may I ask why they are not peers and you say everyone would choose NU? They’re both ranked highly and W&M is probably at a slight disadvantage ranking-wise because it has smaller graduate programs.</p>

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<p>@ej5400 - Ah, congratulations on having two great choices! S will be in ISP next year so perhaps you’ll be classmates.</p>

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<p>NU has a lot of watersport available during the fall and spring, plus there is skiing nearby, I’m sure. Plenty of people are “outdoor” people in the North, so you can always find something to do. NU may have a lot of graduate students, but it is well known as having great quality for undergraduates as well. NU is well known for it’s academics, so regardless of program, it’s obviously going to provide a good education. The midwest has some of the most down to earth, friendliest people I’ve ever met. The weather may not be the greatest, but there are beautiful sites to see. NU has a good focus on undergraduates, and I haven’t heard anyone say they believe undergraduates were ignored by the school. In fact many people I’ve talked to said professors were very involved with undergrads. Foreign languages is a very important part of education. It helps expand the mind to think in new ways, plus in today’s business climate, knowing foreign languages are important to deal with other companies and such. In fact, my uncle was hired simply because he knew Portuguese in one of his past jobs. He was qualified, but not the most qualified, but he could deal with a clientele that others couldn’t. You can take a placement test and pass out of at least some of the classes, but it’s better to learn it in a school setting. Rosetta Stone is decent, but there is way better immersion in a classroom. Greek life at NU is not like Southern frats and sororities. There are some known more for partying and such, but they are way less “fratty” than what you normally think. Plenty of people I’ve talked to have said they despised the idea of frats, until on campus, and they then joined one realizing how much better they are at NU. I’m not quite sure what you mean by homey, unless you mean small and southern… But I have heard that the administration isn’t the most receptive to students. I think it sounds like you’d be a much better fit at Northwestern, since the academics are the most important part of college. Plus, there is a beautiful lake, and plenty of things to do in Chicago and Evanston.</p>

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<p>There’s an outdoors club that does hiking/camping weekends, rock climbing, NU ski/snowboard club, and nu sailing team. There’s also a boathouse where you can rent stuff to get out on the water.</p>

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<p>The weather’s beautiful (and roasting) for a bit in the fall, and towards the end of spring. Summer is hot. Winter is brutal and windy.</p>

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<p>The profs are brilliant. Let’s be honest, some of them will be focused more on research than undergrads, but they are all very good, and all my profs have been very good about being available and ready to help their students (disclaimer: I’m Econ in WCAS, so physics may be a bit different)</p>

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<p>Eh. I was hoping to get out of the midwest for college, but I’m still here. There’s enough of a variety at NU that it isn’t a problem. Plus, Chicago isn’t very midwest-y in my opinion. A lot more city than you might get in the real midwest.</p>

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<p>All of my profs have been awesome about teaching, office hours, and they’ve all really invested themselves into making their students succeed (not that they make it easy, though–quarters FLY past)</p>

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<p>There’s no way around that. If you learn french pretty well, you might be able to skip the first year. The whole requirement is 6 quarters (2 full years of study), or the equivalent. I tested into SPANISH 125, which is the last quarter of the 2 year sequence, and I took AP Spanish in high school, if that gives you context. A lot of friends tested into the second-year sequence, which I think is a lot more doable. Worst case, you have a big head start on language because you’ve familiarized yourself with it via rosetta stone.</p>

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<p>Eh. It only dominates as much as you want it to. The party scene’s pretty small anyway–bars are better, and so is having friends at DePaul or Loyola–they have better bars. But sport clubs and other student groups throw their own parties, and there’s generally enoguh options in the fall and spring. Winter is mostly greek, but it’s cold and walking out to parties sort of sucks in 2 feet of snow.</p>

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<p>Uh. Welp, I’ve gone through major declaration and such, and it’s pretty easy. I asked profs for permission numbers to enroll in closed courses, and that’s easy too. They’re not as scary as they seem. They sound super ultra mega serious… but they often aren’t, so much.</p>

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<p>Rankings don’t mean a thing if you’re miserable! Make sure you’re here for the right reasons. ISP is hard, but it’s a really awesome experience, according to a friend of mine. Curriculum is very rigorous, especially because it’s at such a fast pace. Off-campus socializing usually involves food or one of the couple bars floating around Evanston. Or trips down to Chicago to shop, explore, whatever. But people don’t go down into the city enough. It irritates me. But join sport clubs, they really get your social life going, even if you don’t greek it up.</p>

<p>Lemme know if you have any questions.</p>

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<p>ej 5400 unfortunately today what most people consider peer schools is pretty narrow. There are silly arguments about these lists on this site but I think most people would agree that peer schools are roughly similar in ranking,selectivity, SAT’s etc. While W&M is a very fine school it’s ranked in the mid thirties and has an admission rate slightly over 30%. In truth today there really isn’t any public university that is considered a peer of any of the top 15 schools for undergraduate work. Cost however is aways a big factor and W&M is one of the very best high quality values in the country for in state students.</p>

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<p>SAY, why do you say there isn’t any public university that is considered a peer of any of the top 15 schools for undergraduate work? I’ve heard that W&M is very rigorous in terms of undergraduate workload and the students are particularly studious. I’ve also heard it doesn’t suffer from the grad inflation that may occur at top 15 schools. If this is true and considering I plan to go to grad school, I don’t see why almost everyone would choose NU. By the way, NU is $10,000 more expensive. My parents say they’re willing to pay the difference but I still am uneasy about the difference.</p>

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<p>Based on what you said, I’d pick the higher ranked school - Northwestern.</p>

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<p>ej5400 you are on this site asking for other people’s advice. W&M is a very good school and going there can hardly be considered a bad option. But on this site very few if any would consider W&M an elite school whatever that means. I’t a state school with an admission rate over 30%. To put it a different way probably 1/2 to 2/3 rds of the students at NU could have attended W&M if they were from VA. Conversely only a small percentage of the students at W&M could be admitted at NU. This is just the truth and also true for UCB, UCLA, and even UVA(though it’s the best state school and rather elite).</p>