<p>I agree with you snoozebutton - most parents would love to be able to have their kids graduate with less/no debt.<br>
As stated above, I feel like our hard work (two challenging jobs, always) and saving (living well below our incomes) has just “cost” us potential need based aid which frustrates me. Mostly, though, I feel fortunate that my kids will graduate debt free. It must be hard for the kid that is exempted from need aid because the parents earn too much yet that income is unavailable for school. Perhaps these cases are what FA appeals are for.</p>
<p>
Because having other people work hard to put your kids through school is so better than doing it yourself?</p>
<p>I didn’t read all of these posts, but I truly believe money should be given need-blind and on a scholarship only basis. It shouldn’t matter if you’re well-rounded and poor or if you’re well-rounded and wealthy. Both the poor and wealthy student should get the same amount of money/aid based on the merits of their academic and extracurricular achievement, not their PARENTS’ financial status. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>^I for one am glad it doesn’t work that way.</p>
<p>sylvan - my point is not that others should pay for mine at all. We are full pay precisely because we have worked hard and saved. I don’t like that my peers who live much more extravagantly than I do and/or who chose not to work get need based aid and then complain about not getting more rather than appreciate it. I don’t want to effectively subsidize their kids because they chose not to work as hard or save. The point of the thread was that aid is a gift not a right.</p>
<p>You mean actually reward hard work? That’s blasphemy! :)</p>
<p>To be in a position where my parents, who, by the way, work very very hard and very difficult hours, make way too much money for me to get much financial aid, and yet none of it is going towards my college education (or my twin’s, or my brothers), my future looks pretty difficult.</p>
<p>I wish NYU wasn’t so freaking awful about money. I called them to find out about appeals and they said that incoming freshmen aren’t allowed to appeal FA… which is terrible news for me, b/c I can’t pay 50k a year, or take out those loans (not only would 200k in loans be ridiculous, my parents cant pay the interest). I guess I’ll call my other schools, it’s just sad because I’m only just realizing that no matter how hard you work, NYU is a wealthy person’s school. No room for people like me, I guess.</p>
<p>^Why be sad about that? I’m realizing that no matter how hard I work, Jaguars are a wealthy person’s car and I’ll probably never have one. Again, the problem always boils down to envy of the poor.</p>
<p>Well, I guess I’m just someone who sees an education as different than a car. I find the comparison rather ludicrous. You don’t study hard for 4 years to get a car. A car doesn’t guide you to internships or train you to pursue your dreams or be successful. A car won’t get you valuable connections or get your foot in the door for a competetive dream job. Honestly, I fail to see the connection, because a Jaguar is just a rich person’s commodity. It has absolutely no practical reason for it’s price. A car, like a school, get’s you from point A to point B, but a Jaguar does not do that any better than a Volkswagen. If you want to go the school for the training, and not just to buy a degree, you may find that some expensive, stingy schools offer better training and connections than others (for example, studying theater at NYU is far greater in terms of quality training and helping you actually get those difficult jobs and a state school like, say, Rowan or Montclair. Same with business).</p>
<p>PS, I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way and I don’t begrudge you your expression, but when people refer to me as “poor” I find that highly patronizing. I guess it depends on how you define poor, anyway, but I always thought poor was struggling to survive.</p>
<p>^I wasn’t referring to YOU as poor, SnoozeButton. Actually, if your parents have such a high EFC, you could hardly be “poor”. It just seems to me that one of the primary reasons why people have such a problem with “not getting college aid” is that they see people with lesser means than themselves (e.g. poor people) getting something they themselves can’t seem to get. </p>
<p>I agree that analogies are all limited, but consider this: (1) You go to the grocery store to buy food. Since you can afford food, it doesn’t disturb you much that the poor family in front of you has food stamps (politics aside). You don’t feel “punished” for working and being able to buy food. </p>
<p>(2) You go to the dealership to buy a car. Rich people are buying a more expensive car, and the poor family from the grocery is buying a used clunker. You see yourself fitting into the picture in an appropriate SES way as you buy a typical middle-class new or used vehicle. </p>
<p>(3) You want to go to college, which your parents don’t feel they can justify paying for, but you see people of lesser means being able to do so. NOW you feel like there is something unfair about it all. And it’s easy to do so. But, as you pointed out, education is different from food and cars. Health care is also different from food and cars. These thing require a different paradigm. And maybe it takes some introspection to get to a different perspective on the matter.</p>
<p>I know that because I had to go through it myself. Our EFC for D and S next year just came in at $85K. It is a good thing they have been able to find merit scholarships and/or cheaper schools, because there is no way we could justify that kind of an expense for one year of college for 2 kids.</p>
<p>Hmm I think I get it a little better haha. Well, I guess I’m not trying to defend myself as getting too much FA (because I’ve gotten hardly any need-based at all), but I wish some schools would consider my need.</p>
<p>Actually, what am I saying? I just wish school was cheaper! What is wrong with the world that getting a college education could (will, in my case) leave you in huge debt for the better part of your life?!</p>
<p>Could say- what is wrong with the USA. There are parts of the world where things are organized differently. In Finland, where my H grew up and went to undergrad, college was free. No tuition and students received a living stipend. Most students lived in apts near campus since college owned dorms are not as common there. I believe things are like that in much of Europe, all paid for with their high taxes. So students can concentrate on schoolwork and not worry about whether or not they will be able to pay. </p>
<p>It may be that some countries are pulling back on this model a bit with recent financial difficulties. Not sure if the living stipend is still given. </p>
<p>Like here, getting into the best schools is extremely competitive. But unlike here, you aren’t aiming at a fuzzy target where you can’t be sure if you are packaging yourself correctly. Not holistic, all based on grades and exam scores.</p>
<p>@SnoozeButton
So Cornell gave your twin sister huge FA?
But NYU didn’t gave you anything?
Just wondering, coz my daughter is considering Cornell.</p>
<p>@2018dad yes, Cornell was great with FA for my sister. All of their FA is need-based (no merit) but they guarantee to meet what they estimate to be your full need. Also, I think if you get into any other Ivies with more money, they will match that much.</p>
<p>NYU makes no such promises, which is why I’m in this predicament. if you check their website they say flat-out that they are unlikely to meet your financial need.</p>
<p>To put it in perspective, my twin and I have the same FA need. At NYU next year, I will be paying 50k. At Cornell, she will be paying 25k. All the Ivies (and other top schools like University of Chicago, Stanford, MIT, etc) promise to meet full need.</p>
<p>i am new to this forum and am unfamiliar with the posts you are referring to, but i’ll tell you this: It’s not about “entitlement” for me (and I suspect many other parents, as well), but rather is about the INSANE hikes in college tuitions and fees without which would have made these private universities affordable to some of us years ago. </p>
<p>the bottom line, different areas of the country have different costs of living. it is unfathomable how much money people in my area make and don’t even have a nest egg to show for it. on paper you look like a millionaire. so the way I have heard it, unless you’re in line for government cheese, you need to take loans.</p>
<p>some of these schools are $60k a year. i can’t bear the thought of my child coming out of college unemployed and $240,000 in debt, but if he or she is bright enough to actually get admitted to the school it would be a sin to not provide that opportunity. so, do i feel “entitled” to get aid so my bright child can earn a degree from that institution? absolutely not. But do i hope and pray i can find anyway i can to cut the costs to a manageable level to afford to allow her to go there? absolutely. SlithyTove has a great point: these colleges repeatedly advertise not to stress over tuition because they have money to give, and then people (probably many of the posters you are referring to) apply and are denied. That’s the problem.</p>
<p>I agree with the person above. Of course aid is a gift, but so many people that I know haven’t received enough aid to meet their actual need – including myself. Yes, the aid meets their “need,” but my EFC is way out of the park in terms of what my family can reasonably contribute, unless I want my parents to have a terrible retirement and I want to be in massive debt just for an undergrad degree. I did the work, I got into an Ivy League school, and yet there’s just no way my family can shell out that much money. Instead, I’m probably going to be attending an out-of-state public school with a full tuition scholarship. Without a doubt, I’m extremely, extremely grateful for this opportunity. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, excuse the sense of what some of you might call “entitlement,” but it really upsets me to be unable to go the school that I do feel like I deserve to go to after all the hard work I put in academically, etc. The tuition costs are just insane, a figurative arm and a leg. I’m all for a stellar education and there’s no denying that it would be obtained at these expensive, prestigious colleges, but I do think the money could be better spent. Anyway, rant over. I’ll probably start saving up for my nonexistent future child’s college education like…now 
and then MAYBE I’ll have enough.</p>
<p>Aid is not a gift but an affordable education should be accessible to all. I think despite all its problems, the European university system is a great example of how this model is still relevant in 2013.</p>
<p>That’s what the public schools are for blarghblargh. There really is something for every price point.</p>
<p>There’s something for every price point, but whatever happened to merit? I just feel like colleges advertise that the education is available to ANYONE who puts in the effort and achieves academically, but then it ends up being the exact same system that exists in society. The wealthier go to schools for wealthy people, and the others go to the affordable schools. It’s not as much of a blank slate of opportunity as people make it out to be. </p>
<p>I’m not really criticizing the system that much because it’s an unsurprising reflection of how the world always works and naturally there is only so much money for aid, but I think people should stop acting like an education from a prestigious university is so universally accessible to all. I know far too many people who have had to settle for less simply because their parents are not made of money. I guess my issue isn’t exactly that colleges should give more aid, but that it seems like false advertising when they claim to meet need, yet genuine need frequently is not met.</p>
<p>kikikaylen, VERY well said!</p>
<p>“Nonetheless, excuse the sense of what some of you might call “entitlement,” but it really upsets me to be unable to go the school that I do feel like I deserve to go to after all the hard work I put in academically, etc. The tuition costs are just insane, a figurative arm and a leg.” …</p>
<p>“I think people should stop acting like an education from a prestigious university is so universally accessible to all. I know far too many people who have had to settle for less simply because their parents are not made of money. I guess my issue [is]…that it seems like false advertising when they claim to meet need, yet genuine need frequently is not met.”</p>
<p>sylvan8798, I think you are missing the point completely. It’s not a matter of having schools in your “price point.” It’s a matter of students, like kikikaylen working their academic butts to the bone, gaining admission and then not being able to go. It’s disheartening. There’s another post somewhere in here by a student accepted to UVA (his dream school). He isn’t getting nearly enough aid and is petrified to put his parents in the position of selling their souls for his degree. He is considering not accepting. I don’t know about you, but stories like that break my heart.</p>