<p>Thank you! Is anyone else out there?</p>
<p>Jamiecakes, with spreads like that, I can’t see why anyone would do ED when the budget is tight.</p>
<p>^^^^
If Jamiecakes post isn’t a deterrent to ED, I don’t know what would be. But we will get tons of post next year about ED an how it’s no problem since they “meet need”.</p>
<p>So is he headed to UChicago next year?</p>
<p>Jamiecakes is not the first CCer who has gotten these sorts of spreads. Katwkittens, Sybbie, others have shared their experiences and warned that full need does not mean the same package from different schools are defining full need as such. The problem is that each package in a vacuum with no comparison is the whole world in many ED scenarios. </p>
<p>The problem is that it can also vary from applicant to applicant. There are enrollment management issues even within full need schools.</p>
<p>But everything varies from applicant to applicant. Look at the stats for the kids as they try to be accepted to schools. I understand that there aren’t hard and fast rules about FA-What bewilders me is that there isn’t a way to figure out your place in the system. I donT really understand what the few previous posts we’re about. Did Jamiecakes son apply to Fordham ED? Is that why his offer was so lame?</p>
<p>Jamiecakes’s son got a very generous offer from Fordham. Full tuition covered which is what NMF’s get there. So he got no finanical aid. The other schools did not give merit other than the one year $2k NMF grant, but gave financial aid. Fordham does not have ED. If Jamieson had gone ED, he would not have been permitted to compare offers like he this. He would have gotten an offer and had to take it or leave it. But he’d have no idea what else he could have gotten. </p>
<p>It’s a free market system with holistic practices in place, so no, one can’t be sure of what one can get. However, if you are a NMF, there are lists of what schools do offer them. J’s son knew that if made NMF schools like NEU and Fordham would give free tuition. Look at the thread for guaranteed scholarships and there is another for full tuition awards, I believe as well as for NMFs. Those will give you a good start. But remember, nothing is permanent. Things change each application season.</p>
<p>made 19,000 last year, no assets (5 years ago I used to make 50K-67K but wages in my field have gone way down and I have had some medical problems in the past few years). S has high stats (with a rigorous curriculum), no “hooks”, weak ECs. I know the low income/high stats puts him in a good position and I know it is very difficult for families with middle-somewhat high income. Also he had a father who never paid CS and died a few years ago. </p>
<p>SUNY Geneseo: COA 21,270
Estimated FA: work study/Pell grant/TAP/SUNY tuition credit/SEOG/loans package with about $7000 a year in loans - However, he was offered a scholarship for the room/board worth $7000 a year, so this is a great deal. </p>
<p>Emory: COA 59,908
Pell grant, 5645, /work study, 2500 /need-based aid from the school = 54,492
There is still some left to pay here, plus need to purchase their health insurance (it’s not included in the COA) but doable if I move to area with much lower rent/he works during vacation/can break down payments throughout the year - take out loans if necessary). Would possibly get merit aid after freshman year. </p>
<p>College of Wooster - offered 20,000/year Dean’s scholarship but did not get official financial aid letter.</p>
<p>Still waiting on another school. Applied to Duke and 3 Ivys but did not get accepted.</p>
<p>Of course, financial situation will likely improve and aid offered will be different next year.</p>
<p>Actually his Fordham offer was good. Fordham doesn’t meet need and is known for crappy aid. But since he is a NMF we figured he would get a full tuition scholarship. Its a terrific aid package for fordham.</p>
<p>We thought Northwestern was surprisingly bad because they gave us more loans than we wanted. </p>
<p>He is headed to Chicago where he applied EA.</p>
<p>Unless you are a wealthy legacy, risky to apply ED anywhere.</p>
<p>Thank you ksheja</p>
<p>Its not really risky to apply ED to a school thats need-aware. </p>
<p>There are schools out there that are need-aware which is to the benefit of the student I think; it really says that the school WILL meet your actual needs to be able to attend which could probably put less stress on the families who are nervous about the FA package.</p>
<p>Small Liberal Art Schools with a high endowment is the bees knees FYI.</p>
<p>Don’t be so vague. What are some small liberal arts schools with large endowments? What kind of offers have you seen ? I want to know all about the bees knees.</p>
<p>I think the issue, mccruz, is that the colleges will meet your need as THEY determine it. Sometimes that will be great for you; other times not.</p>
<p>“Its not really risky to apply ED to a school thats need-aware.”</p>
<p>No??? Accoridng to Jamiecakes, there was a 12K per year difference between Northwestern and Chicago, two need-aware schools. Other posters in this forums posted differences of about $10K peer year between need-aware schools.</p>
<p>WWW.noellevitz.com</p>
<p>It is indeed risky to do ED if cost is a big concern to your family.
You cannot compare FA packages.</p>
<p>Colleges are a business, after all, review the above website and learn all about enrollment management, financial aid leveraging, yields, student retention etc. There is even a very long list of schools on this website who use Noel Levitz’s services. Preferential packaging is very real, where the top of the applicant pool gets a very attractive FA package, applicants in middle of pool or those who just squeaked by, may have more loans and less grant money.</p>
<p>Here is what could have happened with ED. NW is a school with a strong reputation for meeting full need and giving good packanges. A lot of members here have been very pleased with the school’s aid packages. So if the Jamiecake’s son applied ED there, and received the package that he did, it would have been a take it or leave it situation. Now if the family clearly can’t make it a go, they would have to let it go. But there’s a lot of gray area between “afford” it and make work with loans and etcetera. There is absolutely no way at that time to know that other like schools would give more. In fact there would be a disincentive to even apply to like school, when one gets a package that doesn’t work from a full need meeting ED choice that tells you that its packages are golden and so do most people. You can come to the conclusion that there is no way you are going to get more and therefor those schools are out of your price range. Or you take NW’s offer and pay $50K more through loans and scrimping. </p>
<p>This “you can say no if you can’t” afford it is not so easy to do. There is also the fact that even if you can technically afford the amounts, the fact that like school might give you a lot more is something you don’t have in the picture. That is what you lose when you are applying to schools ED and you need or want financial aid. You are taking the chance that you are not going to get the best deal, by quite a bit, and that you have to make the decision not knowing this. If you know a school is giving you the best deal by far, you can then decide to bite the bullet and work out the cost But when you don’t know that you can truly be busting your bank when a like school could have been a much better deal, and the student might well be on board for it over his first choice. A school might be a first choice until the money for others are on the table.</p>
<p>The problem with secondary education pricing is the same as the problem with health care pricing. It is based on cost shifting, high price, high discount. Lets say you, for what ever reason, are uninsured. If you need a procedure you will pay dramatically more than what a patient with Medicare will pay and astronomically more than the patient with Medicaid. </p>
<p>The only way the system will change for education is if consumers get off the treadmill of paying full price at colleges and universities that charge $250,000. No education is worth that much if you view it purely as an investment based on potential future earnings. As long as people still do, institutions will be able to shift that cost over to those who are less affluent and offer discounts.</p>
<p>It is a bubble, just like healthcare. There will be a point where enough people decide enough is enough. When they do, there will be no money left to support heavily discounted tuition and pricing will normalize.</p>
<p>M</p>
<p>And at that point, when the bubble pops, it’s a real possibility that some colleges won’t make it. That’ll be sad but not surprising.</p>
<p>Agree eyemgh. This cost shifting is what I call price discrimination. It is one of the factors causing the upward spiral in prices. Granted, other factors such as the access to easy credit have also been responsible for the dramatic increase in college prices.</p>
<p>I also agree that the bubble will eventually go bust, at least for some schools. A school that right now is having serious problems is Knox College.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>True! </p>
<p>Even for a family making $150k as someone mentioned above–a $50k school is a HUGE chunk of a families…(and in after tax dollars)…</p>
<p>If we are going to talk about fairness and aid…then remove all merit aid and all athletic aid…
athletes should not be getting PAID to play.
Universities are supposed to be about education…So reducing a kids COA by 50% so they attend and play a sport and are a history major vs the kid who is a STEM major who isn’t getting that kind of $…there is no fairness in that.
Why “gift” an athlete over a STEM major? kwim?</p>
<p>Wow, there’s a lot of misinformation and a lot of entitlement in this thread, but it is not all about financial. My parents made the same mistake with me, and so I have learned, to be more honest with myself about my kids educational options. In my case, they insisted on turning down merit aid and scholarships at perfectly good schools and insisted that I go the the highest ranked school, which offered no aid. They felt the money would magically come. It did not. After one semester, I ended up in a CC and graduated from a state school, which I worked my way through. </p>
<p>((Unfortunately, working through a state school is no longer possible. Wages and costs are no longer aligned the way they were. )) </p>
<p>In short, I feel the answer is attend the schools where you will be most wanted and appreciated. That is often demonstrated in merit aid. Case in point, my son applied to a private college, and a prestigious art college and was accepted at both. The art college offered a tiny bit of merit. The private college offered a lot more merit and scholarships. They clearly wanted him more, and made nice merit offer. Unlike in my case, we did not look at the names of the schools, but the affordability. A choice was made that we could pay for with monthly payments and a small student loan. We did not feel like he was entitled to the high priced prestigious school. We felt he was entitled to go the school that appreciated his level of talent and was willing to offer him an incentive to attend. </p>
<p>When kids and parents are honest with themselves as the kid only deserving the Grants and merit he or she has earned at the colleges they earned them, then parents won’t be killing themselves to meet tuitions they can’t afford because aid wasn’t given. Tuition inflation will also stop because parents will refuse to pay high prices in the name of status. </p>
<p>In short, apply to all levels of schools, then send the kid to the best one that you can afford and be willing to let the high end colleges go if money is too much. </p>
<p>Maybe I am naive, but as a person who I knew would not get FA$$ I took the time to call FA advisors all over the country (as part of my job as a journalist), and so I got information that backed up my approach straight from the horses mouth.</p>