“Today I couldn’t have gotten into most colleges based on my inability to go beyond very basic math, which really is a travesty and would have been a waste of my intellectual abilities.”
Assuming you’re right that math disabilities are wrongly keeping some gifted kids out of college, surely you don’t think that most people in this group of hundreds of thousands of disadvantaged kids in California have diagnosable disabilities. In fact, there’s reason to believe that some might have hidden talents in the STEM area that will go to waste because they have never been in an environment that allows them to succeed. They can’t discover that they are good or even competent at math if they were told at age 6 that they’re innately unable to do it.
Possible, not a given. D’s bf is an English lit major/secondary ed, but I wouldn’t put him in front of a math class of any sort. Nor would he wish to be.
Of course not! But the attitude on CC is often that English Lit is the kind of thing you do only if you are utterly incompetent at math, and that’s not true. My son’s first girlfriend has an Iowa MFA and is a PhD student in English Lit in a brand-name program. Back in middle school, she had the highest score of any girl in the state on the standardized math test everyone took, and she was through AP Calculus BC in 10th grade. She was the kind of person who is gifted in everything. She thought literature was more interesting than math.
"Assuming you’re right that math disabilities are wrongly keeping some gifted kids out of college, surely you don’t think that most people in this group of hundreds of thousands of disadvantaged kids in California have diagnosable disabilities. "
Of course not. I think we owe it to all students especially those from disadvantaged homes to help them reach their highest potential. But it truly frightens me that if I’d been born later I would have been made to feel like I was academically unable to go to college. That is truly nuts. I was a straight A student in college nicely avoiding any math class. Occasionally I would get a dire warning about how my lack of math skills would hold me back in the " real world" which was nonsense.
My " favorite" piece of nonsense in the recent past was about how I shouldn’t tell my kids that I hate math because this would make them not like it. Nonsense again as is proved by my two STEM daughters, one who just graduated with a double engineering major. When they were young They reveled in the fact that they were better than me at math from third grade on
@maya54, optimist that I am, perhaps if you’d been born later, rather than telling you to dismiss college, perhaps you could have been helped. Disclosure: I know very little about learning syndromes, but it seems to me that much progress has been made.
Dyscalculia, like Dyslexia or Dysgraphia, can be alleviated, but students need accomodations. You can’t get out of it.
The fact is that Intermediate Algebra, RIGHT NOW, is blocking tens of thousands of students. If they have to take that class two or three times then drop out, what does that prove? Being placed in Intermediate Algebra is the most direct cause for students who are doing well otherwise to be “blocked”, can’t take any non remedial math class and thus can’t progress further.
We can absolutely work on making that class better, right now.
One way that’s been experimented is to NOT place these students in Intermediate Algebra but placing them in a non remedial class where they get extra support (but this is expensive and requires special training; on the other hand, it works). For whatever reason, Intermediate Algebra is a stumbling block for students who, placed in another, higher class level and provided a tutor and a special review, can pass. That’s promising but requires a LOT of work from the college (for design) and the instructors (for implementation), and thus extra funding.
I really think we need to do all kinds of things better.
But we can’t fix the secondary school system for the current students who are “blocked” by Intermediate Algebra. We can’t go back to 1994 when the CA secondary system was one of the strongest in the US nor do Californians want to revert to the formula used back then. We have to help the students we currently have in the system and find a way for them to show they can succeed.
@maya54"My " favorite" piece of nonsense in the recent past was about how I shouldn’t tell my kids that I hate math because this would make them not like it. Nonsense again as is proved by my two STEM daughters, one who just graduated with a double engineering major."
Just because it was not true for your two daughters doesn’t mean it is nonsense. Girls, especially, get a lot of messages about boys being better at math and math not being for girls. Girls who get positive messages about math are more likely to practice it more and then be “good at it.” Girls who hear more negative message may still be good at it, it is about probability not certainty.
Supposedly, mathematical learning disorder or dyscalculia affects about 3-7% of elementary school students, and is higher among American than Japanese, German, and French children (with comment that “This higher incidence may be linked to the instructional course design.”). http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/915176-overview#a6
@Emsmom1 : did you need Elementary Algebra or Intermediate Algebra?
I admit I don’t really know but it seemed to me that Elementary Algebra was sufficient for an introduction to statistics. I’ve seen it integrated into middle school math for students who were at the pre-algebra/algebra1 stage (using percentages then basic concepts then applications then further basic concepts as well as basic probability). The stats/probs questions on the SAT/ACT didn’t seem to require more than basic algebra to me. Again, I am NOT a math teacher so it’s quite possible I’m extrapolating too much from one ability level to the next. @bjkmom would know though.
All in all, if “bridge to statistics” could be considered sufficient to take “statistics”, and if the necessary algebra concepts could belong to “bridge to statistics”, would everyone be satisfied with requiring EITHER Intemerdiate Algebra OR Bridge to Statistics for students with a placement score requiring remedial math, or would posters still feel the regular Intermediate Algebra class should be required before a student can attempt further classes at CC?
“Bridge to statistics” courses are typically taken after elementary algebra to cover those parts of intermediate algebra needed for introductory statistics (though it could also be a combination of the needed parts of elementary and intermediate algebra). Generally, introductory statistics courses list intermediate algebra as a prerequisite, though some colleges offer alternative “bridge to statistics” or pre-statistics courses that cover just those parts needed for introductory statistics. Note that, in high schools, algebra 2 (= intermediate algebra) is typically a prerequisite for AP statistics (= introductory statistics).
Getting the student to the point of completing introductory statistics should be considered a success, but it does not mean that all of intermediate algebra can be skipped in that case (since portions are embedded in “bridge to statistics” or pre-statistics courses).
Note that intermediate algebra is not generally required to take other courses at a community college, other than those that depend on it as a prerequisite.
^ There doesn’t seem to be a “bridge to statistics” block though, hence making it a more successful math class for a similar level as Intermediate Algebra.
It seems that, at least in the CA CC system practice, if a student is placed in Intermediate Algebra, they have to complete it or they can’t graduate, period, regardless of it being needed as a pre-req.
Perhaps I’m mistaken?
Looks like the actual AA/AS requirements at California CCs do not necessarily require intermediate algebra. For example, here are the requirements at Santa Monica College:
Note that the courses allowed to fulfill the AA/AS math requirement include Math 32 (geometry) as well as the pre-statistics courses (which include some intermediate algebra content).
For those transferring to a CSU or UC, a math course that is “college level” (green in the chart linked above) is required:
Math 54 (elementary statistics) counts, but it has a prerequisite of either intermediate algebra or the pre-statistics version. The same is true for other courses that fulfill that requirement for transfer.
I am a nurse and I use algebra at work. Medication calculations are a small part of my particular job (would have to use my math skills every shift if pharmacy didn’t already do the dosing calculations now). My associate’s program did not include an actual math course but we did learn different medical math with each clinical rotation and had to pass the tests to continue. I think if you are proficient in basic math and can test out of it, maybe it isn’t always necessary for some degrees.
I think the main problem with algebra is the way it’s taught. Too much focus on the abstract, and not enough on how it’s used in a practical way. It always seemed like pointless letter-juggling to me.
Actually, the same issue applies to lots of math classes.
Someone said above Algebra 2 is required to graduate high school. In California Algebra 1 is the requirement and for struggling students it is taught as a 2 year course, A1a and A1b.