Wake Forest to drop SAT/ACT

Parents Forum
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<p>Minority status;</p>

<p>Harvard: 35% minority student body 10% foreign residents</p>

<p>Duke: 39% minority student body 7% foreign residents</p>

<p>Stanford: 48% minorrity student body 7% foreign residents</p>

<p>Princeton: 32% minority student body 11% foreign residents</p>

<p>Northwestern: 32% minority student body 5% foreign residents</p>

<p>Emory: 33% minority student body 5% foreign residents</p>

<p>Vanderbilt: 24% minority student body 4% foreign residents</p>

<p>Georgetown: 24% minority student body 5% foreign residents</p>

<p>All top 25 Universities. All with high diverse student ratios. Al require SAt scores.</p>

<p>To say Wake is dropping Sat requirementsfor the purpose of obtaining diversity is just a lie!!!</p>

<p>They just do not want to upset the current and last student body of High Achievers who will feel cheated by Wake.</p>

<p>Hatch simply wants to dumb down the school, because; he is not up to the standards of the student body. The bottom line is this, he wants Wake to join the ranks of lmediocre schools. Lower standards equate to lower pressure. Lower pressure, equates to fewer students dropping out their freshman year. </p>

<p>High achievers want highly competative schools. Any dummy knows that</p>

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<p>Alice, have you thought about transferring? I don't know your classification but if it is less than "graduate" I would consider it.</p>

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<p>^^I'm guessing that Alice has a personal relationship with Collegeboard, either direct employment (or family connection). :D</p>

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<p>Alice,
I'm on record earlier in the thread that this is a mistake by Wake, but I think your comments about diversity don't appreciate just how significantly Wake has underperformed relative to other top 30 national universities. The school needs to do something to attract more students of color, but I agree that this was not the right step and dropping the SAT can actually send the wrong message to the top students that any institution wants to attract. Here is the data for the numbers of Asians, Blacks, and Hispanics at the USNWR Top 30 national universities:</p>

<p>Asian , Black , Hispanic , Total , School
, , , ,<br>
46% , 4% , 12% , 62% , UC Berkeley
45% , 2% , 14% , 61% , UCLA
44% , 1% , 5% , 50% , Caltech
28% , 8% , 12% , 48% , MIT
24% , 10% , 11% , 45% , Stanford
25% , 4% , 14% , 43% , Rice
22% , 6% , 13% , 41% , USC
14% , 11% , 13% , 38% , Columbia
20% , 9% , 7% , 36% , Duke
22% , 6% , 7% , 35% , Johns Hopkins
26% , 4% , 5% , 35% , Carnegie Mellon
18% , 8% , 8% , 34% , Harvard
20% , 9% , 3% , 32% , Emory
15% , 8% , 9% , 32% , Brown
13% , 10% , 7% , 30% , Princeton
17% , 6% , 7% , 30% , Northwestern
16% , 8% , 6% , 30% , U Penn
14% , 6% , 9% , 29% , U Chicago
12% , 9% , 8% , 29% , Yale
14% , 10% , 4% , 28% , Wash U
16% , 6% , 6% , 28% , Cornell
12% , 11% , 5% , 28% , U Virginia
14% , 7% , 5% , 26% , Dartmouth
13% , 7% , 6% , 26% , Tufts
8% , 8% , 8% , 24% , Georgetown
12% , 7% , 5% , 24% , U Michigan
7% , 12% , 5% , 24% , U North Carolina
7% , 9% , 6% , 22% , Vanderbilt
7% , 5% , 9% , 21% , Notre Dame
6% , 6% , 2% , 14% , Wake Forest</p>

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<p>Wake has problems attracting diverse students in other ways as well. For some reason, many Jewish families in our area do not consider the school when it come time to choosing colleges.</p>

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<p>Hard to see how any of the national unis can compete w/ the UCal system, whose diversity numbers get a real boost from in-state Asian and Latino enrollment. And I don't believe that Wakes ever expected to increase its Asian population signigicantly by going SAT optional.</p>

<p>Interesting that in most cases the diversity enrollment seem to reflect the surounding areas diversity, especially for the public unis. Thus, Wake, in NC is unlikely to ever enroll the percentage of Asia or Latino students as Stanforn (large Asian/Latino pop in CA) - - or the same percentage of black students as UNC (public).</p>

<hr>

<p>And re: Bowdoin. Yes, folks in the know will know that Bowdoin enrolls more students w/ lower SATs than Wellesley, but that's a far cry from thinking that most or all of the students presented embarassingly low scores.</p>

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<p>Wake Forest is pretty weak when it comes to economic diversity. Maybe the school wants to change that a little too.</p>

<p>Univ. of California–Los Angeles * 37%
Brigham Young Univ.–Provo (UT) 33%
University of California–Berkeley * 31%
University of California–Davis * 31%
Univ. of California–San Diego * 31%
Univ. of Southern California 17%
Clemson University (SC)* 14%
Cornell University (NY) 14%
Dartmouth College (NH) 14%
Georgia Institute of Technology * 14%
Clemson University (SC)* 14%
Cornell University (NY) 14%
Dartmouth College (NH) 14%
Georgia Institute of Technology * 14%
U. of North Carolina–Chapel Hill * 14%
Worcester Polytechnic Inst. (MA) 14%
California Institute of Technology 13%
Marquette University (WI) 13%
Massachusetts Inst. of Technology 13%
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor * 13%
Brandeis University (MA) 12%
Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 12%
Emory University (GA) 12%
Stanford University (CA) 12%
Virginia Tech * 12%
American University (DC) 11%
Boston College 11%
Brown University (RI) 11%
Harvard University (MA) 11%
University of Chicago 11%
University of Pennsylvania 11%
Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison * 11%
Vanderbilt University (TN) 11%
Boston University 10%
Georgetown University (DC) 10%
Johns Hopkins University (MD) 10%
Northwestern University (IL) 10%
Duke University (NC) 9%
George Washington University (DC) 9%
Lehigh University (PA) 9%
Rice University (TX) 9%
Tufts University (MA) 9%
University of Notre Dame (IN) 9%
Yale University (CT) 9%
College of William and Mary (VA)* 8%<br>
Princeton University (NJ) 7%
University of Virginia * 7%
Wake Forest University (NC) 7%
Washington University in St. Louis 6%
USNews.com:</a> America's Best Colleges 2008: National Universities: Economic Diversity among all schools</p>

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<p>After reading this thread, I have concluded that Wake Forest will simply attract more dumb rich white students. To attract more diversity, all that is needed is one of three things: lower tuition, better enrollment staff, or higher SAT scores! The above posts show that. Simply put!</p>

<p>Sounds like a big smoke screen by the administration to me.</p>

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<p>But don't you realize that professors in college don't just give SAT critical reading and math tests for exams? The SATs do point out some natural ability but i know so many of my friends who score high on the SAT but can't get into the NHS for god's sake because they can't get a 92 average! So many of my friends, who have 800's, 750's are lazy and think that because they have natural talent they dont have to study or do work like everyone else...well let me tell you something: that is NOT going to get you a degree! Let me put it another way...I have a 680 on the math section of the SAT....however, i am in AP Calculus BC this year...my friend with an 800 is only in AP Calculus AB...in my BC class, i got one of the highest grades in the class, beating almost everyone who has a higher math score on the SAT...are u saying that because my score is lower than theirs, i am not as ready for college? even when in the same class, with the same tests, i can do better than them? how would it be any different in college? if you have a high SAT and lower GPA, i think colleges should immediately send you a rejection letter, because that just says that you ARE LAZY and even though you are smart YOU ARE NOT WORKING TO YOUR FULL POTENTIAL! ok, so we need the SAT to show that sally with an 83 is just in a more difficult class than janet with an 89...but whats the problem? colleges arent STUPID they know that a grade is RELATIVE! that is why you could have a 3.9 GPA but if that puts you behind 75% of your grade, that 3.9 means nothing! the SAT does show ability, but college is more than just ability, and hard working, persistent people who can succeed in advanced classes in high school are the ones who will do well in college...as simple as that...and please, if your daughter has a 750 math, an 83 is horrible, i dont care how hard the class is...by your standards, she should be able to succeed in college with her SAT math, yet she can only pull off an 83? she'll only get that or worse in college! im sick of people excusing laziness/not working to full potential with a high SAT score! sorry people, college isnt one big SAT test!</p>