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<p>Or you just go ahead and kill most of them. Indian Americans, remember?</p>
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That was me and I stand by it. This thread must have hit a nerve, that’s all. I don’t think you’re a guest, I don’t think you have to be any more cautious than anyone else, I just noticed hostility on the thread.</p>
<p>Uh oh-- this thread is starting to take a turn towards the political forum. Lets please not cause it to go there.</p>
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You can complain about the food when you’re paying for it. My mom always said that the first time you came to her home you were a guest. The second time, you were family. When you’re a taxpaying citizen, I think you count as family, too, and can say whatever you think. But if you’re feeling angry and mistreated, you shouldn’t have to live with it.</p>
<p>Anyone has ever met an American Indian? What would he/she say about “host” vs “guest”? This is my land.</p>
<p>TheGFG and hyeonjlee’s views are very much appreciated, both are good people. When you think harder, it’s not “host” vs “guest” but “majority” vs “minority”. If you look different, no matter how many generations you’ve been here, you are treated as a foreigner. That’s human. But, one great thing about this country is that many TheGFGs and hyeonjlees were willing to put Obama in the White House, to be the leader.</p>
<p>@kobudnik. I doubt Harvard wants anyone who does nothing but study all the time. The problem is that many people assume that if you are a good student you must have studied long hours. The truth of the matter is that a 1-hour work for a smart kid could be a 10-hour work for others. I suspect that a small fraction of the perfect SAT/ACT scorers didn’t practice much, and they are likely of any race, proportional to the population.</p>
<p>I clearly stated she IS an equal member of our society, but that she needs to understand that OTHER people see her as a guest. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t make the comments they’ve made to her, no? I was merely trying to explain to her why she has experienced the hostility she’s experienced when she has criticized the US and American education.</p>
<p>It is what it is. The fact that you don’t think people should feel that way is not going to change anything. So either keep your crtiicisms to yourself, or be prepared for people to get upset with you.</p>
<p>*Asian as a whole, has the highest median household income (~65K). About 1/3 of Asain households are at or above 100K (page 37).</p>
<p>Could our culture of “do whatever to get best education for our children” have played a role in this? I say “yes”.</p>
<p>Of course, I don’t mean retaking a 2380 type of push. *</p>
<p>Going back to OP-Isn’t " Asian" oversimplyfying it a bit?
Are you speaking of Japanese,Korean, Thai nationals? Perhaps the 4 million Asian Latin Americans?
Hmong, Cambodians, Filipinos,Vietnamese?
Can you be more specific about what this Asian " culture" ?</p>
<p>While our family has made sacrifices to procure the " best education" , we also have a different idea about what " best" means.
Best doesn’t mean summers spent seeking academic experiences, but pursuing a balance of activities.
Best doesn’t mean trying to keep up the superficial appearance of " fitting in an economic class", that doesn’t match our income, by buying things that don’t support our values of family & education.
Best also doesn’t mean “prestige”, best means " appropriate" or even " good enough"
;)</p>
<p>While I am familiar with the cliched Asian families who seek to have their children pursue a medical or engineering career, regardless of interest or ability( which some view as " success"), many Asian American families are like any other 2nd or 3rd or 4th gen American families and encourage their children to pursue their interests and strengths re: education/career.</p>
<p>Isn’t the reason why many Asians have emigrated to the USA, because of the emphasis on individuality and free choice?</p>
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<p>This is the best post on this thread for me. Thanks, goodbetterbest.</p>
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<p>The repeated use of “yellow people” irks me. Last time I checked, this is a negative reference. Isn’t the word “Asian” sufficient? Are the folks from India yellow people too?</p>
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<p>They may not have studied specifically for the test itself, but their education and exposure may have put them in a position to ace the SAT/ACT without practice. Some of these education and exposure may require financial support beyond the means of most families. Of course, there are exceptions.</p>
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<p>I suspect most recent non-refugee immigrants came here primarily to pursue economic prosperity and education, more so than individuality and free choice.</p>
<p>*I suspect most recent non-refugee immigrants came here primarily to pursue economic prosperity and education, more so than individuality and free choice. *</p>
<p>But education for K-12?</p>
<p>Doesn’t the US routinely rank towards the mediocre in worldwide assessments of math/science education?
[US</a> Falls, China Rises in Global Competitiveness Rankings | News | English](<a href=“http://www.voanews.com/english/news/US-Falls-China-Rises-in-Global-Competitiveness-Rankings-102524789.html]US”>US Falls, China Rises in Global Competitiveness Rankings)</p>
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<p>Yes, and this is frustrating and perplexing to my (variegated) Asian families, who understandably expect and want more. What they invariably do, often, is seek outside enrichment for that during K-12, since often they do not find it in the classroom.</p>
<p>PCP, you’re correct about often “acing” the SAT/ACT, as many of the others here are also aware. However, it is becoming less universally so, particularly if they come here considerably younger than h.s.: part of that is the education they are presented with in the classroom; part, as I mentioned, is attitudes/study habits of peers, which is difficult to resist as a teen.</p>
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<p>I was thinking about undergrad and grad education. But, now that you mentioned it, in some cases, education for K-12 too. I knew a few families who came to America to avoid the pressure of constant cramming for tests and the singular focus on college entrance exam in their homeland. They aren’t shooting for elite colleges. They just want their kids to attend a decent college, which due to severe competition for limited seats, may not be an option for their kids back home.</p>
<p>No matter immigrants or whatever, k-12 in the USA is in very bad shape, pushing busy boring work and not developing analytical thinking because of extremely low level of math and science instructions. I know that I will be called basher. I do not care, I state the facts. K-12 does not prepare kids to go to science / engineering, with very many top caliber students are faced with either having paid tutors in college to bering them up to needed level or dropping their original dream. I am not sayting that test/exams should be goals in k-12. I am not supporting this at all. I would love to see real math / chemistry / physics, biology starting in middle school and gradually moving to higher level in HS. You cannot cram physics in one year, it is impossible, and it will never be accomplished. Physics is required by most science / pre-med / engineering majors. Correct way of learning physics is to use certain level of math that is also is way behind in middle school. Lots of good students are very bored in their math classes. These should be offerred to everybody, not selected few who have won some competition.</p>
<p>No, you’re not a “basher,” Miami. Come over to the “Superman” thread and read my scathing comments on my profession.
:)</p>
<p>Here are some changes I’d like to see in our K-12 system -</p>
<p>1) Start writing as early as possible. K-2 kids may not have the mechanics and the vocabs, but that shouldn’t stop them from writing stories of their own. This requires K-2 teachers to look beyond spelling errors and grammar mistakes and instill a love of writing and free expression in our children.</p>
<p>2) Reading more classics. Kids are not reading enough books that stood the test of time. No, they don’t need more Shakespeare or Homer, but how about more Hemmingway, Dostoyevsky, Dickens, Yeats, Eliot, and Fitzgerald? Reading and getting used to reading literary works of giants will help our children tremendously.</p>
<p>3) Stop forcing kids to take regular classes before allowing them to take AP classes on the same subjects. I know from CC, many schools do this. If a student is on an AP or accelerated path, why slow him/her down by a whole year? Same issue with taking Calc BC after taking Calc AB.</p>
<p>4) Stop repeating in high school the same math that kids learned in middle school. If properly taught, most kids should be done with Algebra and Geometry by the end of middle school. Our system is dumbing them down. Knowledge is accumulating at a tremendous speed. Our kids need to learn efficiently at a faster pace. Top math/science/engineering kids are expected to have completed the equivalent of Calc BC in high school today, but it was the norm to start trigonometry at Princeton a century ago.</p>
<p>5) Teach number theory as a required class in middle school or high school. Math becomes much easier once this fundamental block is laid.</p>
<p>6) Take more field trips and visit places other than just museums and zoos. Take the kids to factories, hospitals, research labs, judicial courts and fortune 500 companies. Let them see what’s driving this economy and propelling our civilization.</p>
<p>7) Adopt didactic and dialectic teaching methods in our K-12 classrooms. It is much easier and more enjoyable to acquire facts and build up knowledge when it is done for a greater purpose than just for the sake of gathering facts. Most of us agree it is much better to acquire vocabs organically by reading worthwhile books than by rote memorization.</p>
<p>8) Encourage (or may be even require) intramural sports. Kids shouldn’t be near-pro to participate in organized sports.</p>
<p>^^ Start a new thread, PCP. A new, better K-12 education system could be hatched here. Let #174 be the OP.</p>
<p>PaperChaserPop–since it was my post you quoted above in #168, I wanted to point out that the term “yellow” was not my word choice. It was used originally in post #117 by hyeonjlee when she said: “You are looking at the face of the 21st American upper echelon, and it’s looking increasing yellow.”</p>
<p>No one here is disagreeing about the problems in our educational system. But just like it wouldn’t be wise to complain about your company’s policies during your first month of employment, or a good idea to criticize an organization you’ve just recently joined, for the same reason the educational powers-that-be are going to be less likely to accept criticism when it comes from an immigrant, regardless of that person’s credentials or wisdom. This is human nature and is not necessarily due to racism. But if racism IS part of the equation, then we all agree that’s terribly wrong.</p>
<p>Similarly, if there is racism in the Asian camp, then that is equally wrong. Since someone brought up Native Americans, let’s remember that Europeans came to this continent with superior technology and what they believed was a more advanced culture. Therefore, they considered themselves justified in taking over the land and its resources, and marginalizing the Native Americans. They thought their arrival would bring salvation and civilization to the indigenous peoples, whom they sometimes called lazy.</p>
<p>We now understand that the Native American culture was a fine and beautiful one, and it suited the land and its inhabitants. The same can be said of our United States now and the existing culture. Our way of life has worked well for us for years. Yes, there are problems and imperfections. But those who call us lazy and believe their technological or educational superiority means they should criticize us and take over, would do well to remember the lessons of history.</p>
<p>The solution is working together with mutual respect.</p>
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<p>But DadII (or should I call you D2?), why on earth would I do that? I really enjoy not liking what you have to say and commenting as such 
</p>
<p>I will admit, I do take your bait. But it is fun to chew on. Besides, isn’t that the point of most of your outlandish comments? </p>
<p>Then again, if you don’t like my responses to your comments, maybe you could take your own advice? That could include:</p>
<ol>
<li>Stop reading them</li>
<li>Create more meaningful and constructive threads and posts</li>
<li>Start a new identity on here! You know, like Laserbrother did. It’s a bit like joining the witness protection program. It might take me awhile to find you and respond!</li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks to the efforts of engineers, scientists and physicians from many different backgrounds and countries, the first Chilean miner is on the surface. Hoping for the best for those still below.</p>
<p>Also kudos to the drillers, rescuers, etc. Everyone working together on this. Hope for a continued good outcome. It will be an adjustment for the rescued miners and hope for the best for them.</p>