Warning. or so.

<p>Thanks for your support and advice. It's incredibly appreciated.</p>

<p>I found a post about the Swat lifestyle that actually is quite the opposite on the Swat Livejournal. </p>

<p>
[quote]
i have never been so happy in my life and honestly the work hasnt been any more overwhelming than my prep high school. im way less stressed and love the people here. people definitely dont work all the time. and ive had so much fun. dont be discouraged.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>(This post comes from this thread: <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/community/swarthmore/95735.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.livejournal.com/community/swarthmore/95735.html&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>Thanks to interested dad for suggesting the livejournal for current students' opinions on life at swat in the nancy_regan thread. There is alot of good stuff in there. While most who say that it's not hard to have a life ARE pass/fail frosh, it's good to know that swat gives us a nice transition period.</p>

<p>Another good opposing quote :)</p>

<p>
[quote]
The general intelligence/passion of the students exceeded my expectations.
The work load is less than I thought/the atmosphere less stressful.
So far, and maybe I haven't figured it out yet, I've found that Saturday nights can be a lonely/disorienting thing for those of us who don't drink and drug.
Being on campus makes me even happier that I thought it would be/the layout/beauty/etc.
I don't feel claustrophobic from the small size, but I'm just a frosh, and my high school was much smaller. However, I was worried that I'd feel claustrophobic.
There are SOOO many more awesome lectures/speakers/performances/etc and such than I thought there were going to be, and I already had high expectations for that!
People are motivated for high integrity reasons.
People are more humble than I thought they'd be.
I like the classes/kid have great things to say/people are thorough in their thought process.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>(From this thread:<a href="http://www.livejournal.com/community/swarthmore/94996.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.livejournal.com/community/swarthmore/94996.html&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>OK. I promise I'm done, just remember everyone, no forum or blog will shape your life; college will be what you make of it. :)</p>

<p>current junior again... i should have mentioned, the whole everybody knowing everybody is a load of crap, so far as I'm concerned. I don't think I could put name to face on more than half my class (and maybe not even half), as I mentioned in a different thread. Obviously, that's much more than I'd know if I were at, say, Yale or Cornell, but it's not like I know everybody I see. If you're really nosy, you can probably find out a good deal about what's going on in other people's lives, but it's not like we have bulletin boards with postings about who broke up this weekend.</p>

<p>Descant, I can understand your apprehension, but nancy_reagan went a little overboard, in my opinion. I can assure you that while at times I've had to work more than I really wanted in a given weekend, I've also had plenty of time for procrastination and general fooling around, and I haven't had a breakdown in my first two and a half years. I've also been taking at least four and a half classes for the past three semesters, which has added to the burden. Freshman fall, I only took four, and I found the work much easier than high school (the lack of grades helped there, though).</p>

<p>If you're still unsure, you should do what you think is right. Admissions would rather hear from you now than have you reneg on your acceptance later in the spring.</p>

<p>I just have to say that most swatties do not work so hard that they do not have time to have fun. My friends and I worked hard during the day, hung out weeknights, and partied (usually drank a lot, or partied in philly) thursday-sat night. I have no idea what grades my friends god, but many did honors and did well, where natural science majors, have good jobs/ got into good grad schools. The exceptions - my friends who did not party - didn't refrain from doing so becauuse they were doing work, but because they didn't enjoy that scene. I had a ridiculously good time in college, worked hard, learned a ton, met amazing fantastic friends - and I don't think I'm special in any of these regards. I would not let individual horror stories that you read on an internet message board scare you from swat if you thought it was right for you before... maybe that means you shouldn't listen to me either... oh well. I think that if someone was miserable and overworked at swat, they would have been at any peer institution, and likely at any university.</p>

<p>Just one person's experience...take it for what it is and don't read too much into it because this just reflects my current mood more than anything...Anyway, when I was a prospie at Swarthmore for RTT a couple years ago, I couldn't have been happier to have gotten in. It was my first (and only) visit to Swarthmore and I thought it was a match made in heaven...This should have been my first clue i suppose since RTT isn't the best representation of what Swat is really like but rather a showcase of what the school has to offer and a way to make the specs time there both pleasant and enjoybale, neither words which could be used to describe my time here at Swarthmore. Personally, my HS was a joke...it could have never in a million years prepared me with the intsense setting that i continue to find myself in. However, because i'm not afraid of a little hard work and because i knew that coming into swarthmore i'd have to really work, this hasn't really bothered me (although, i am a little annoyed at how hard i have to work and how little it seems to show). One of the things (petty as it is) that does bother me is the insistance of people to say that Swat culture is not competitive...well, yes, if you are speaking about academics and the likes, people tend to be more self-motivated than competitive; However, swatties will spend hours at a time trying to see who has the most work. Misery poker seems to be on of their favorite past times and as a person who could care less for other people's complaints and whininess, I couldn't have picked a more fustruating setting. Another thing is the fact that you have to be really lucky or really good at picking classes/profs when you get here because as of yet, i have not had a class/professor that has really turned me on to learning. I have however, had very discouraging professors who have insinuated that i don't belong here and have treated me as if i were stupid. I'm in the minority because a lot of the people i know "love love love" their classes and their professors--but not everyone and certainly not me. I've been discouraged and continue to be discouraged from pursuing something that i am passionate about because swat profs are not as willing to help/actually helpfull as they'd like to pretend they are. As far as the people here...well MY EXPERIENCE has been that they are self-aborbed/self-rightous and overall superficial. Sure they are involved in everything but this goes back to their need to say and rub in other people's faces everything that they do and how oh so well rounded they are. The few people who dare to be different are the butt of everyone's jokes and are made to feel like oddballs in a place that is more often than not described as having "quirky" individuals. Also, in a student body that prides itself in being liberal, there sure is little room for a difference of opinion. I haven't exactly gone into my own personal experiences and prefer not to but these are a few of my observations. FYI: I don't hole myself in my room and study 24/7...In fact, I play a couple sports and am in several groups, have a job and have a balanced social life. However, these things only make swat bearable and in my opinion, not by any means likeable. In sum, Swat was not what I expected and this will be true for a lot of you. It has gotten more bearable if only because i'm going abroad soon and in all honesty, If it were possible, i would have transfered a long time ago.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If it were possible, i would have transfered a long time ago.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Why in the world haven't you transferred? You sound positively miserable. Classes not to your liking. Professors not to your liking. Fellow students not to your liking. Time to move on.</p>

<p>My daughter has not found it difficult at all to find out who are the best professors and courses. She got a lot of guidance from the seniors on her hall freshman year -- not only on professors, but also the "scoop" on various departments, and courses she shouldn't miss in several departments. She and her friends trade a lot of information on courses they have taken -- although it's funny how one person can "hate" a professor and everybody else "loves" the professor.</p>

<p>I have not seen any insurmountable problem going from Swarthmore from an "average" public high school. It may put you at an initial disadvantage from a writing standpoint, but taking ENGL 001 - INSIGHTS INTO ACADEMIC WRITING freshman year should help get up to speed quickly.</p>

<p>It is funny how one person can "hate" a prof and another person "love" him/her...That's the problem. You can never really predict what your personal experience will be and so you are pretty much playing a game of chance. Clearly, i've been losing every time. The thing about my HS was that in fact, it wasn't "average" but was actually extremely below average. The student body was over three times that of Swarthmore and because of lack of teachers (and lack of teachers who cared) I even ended up teaching some of my classes. I have tried to transfered and my old HS has made it imposible for me to get old transcripts, recs, etc and swat has made it difficult for me--won't go into it. and besides, i have financial aid to consider. I don't give up on too many things and have just been waiting for things to get better (which i said they have been, sort of). Also, I did take ENGL 001--It was awful and not that helpful at all. Swarthmore on paper is wonderful--Swarthmore personally CAN BE wonderful. There is just no way of being able to predict and my account was by no means, a way to discourage any applicants or to make them doubt Swarthmore because like I said--I'm probably in the minority of opinions.</p>

<p>ReadyFreddy:</p>

<p>You really need to transfer or take some time off. It's silly to stick around at a school you despise on account of financial aid. It's not fair to you to be miserable in college and it's not fair to someone else who would kill to have your spot. If you can get money to attend Swarthmore, there must surely plenty of schools, perhaps your homestate university, that would be very affordable.</p>

<p>Take a year off and work or travel or something. I reached the point of dreading college after my sophmore year. Took a year off and worked. When I went back, I loved studying, loved my classes, loved doing the reading (and reading and reading and reading -- James Joyce and Doestoevsky courses at the same time), and enjoyed college very much. Nothing had changed with the classes or the professors or the college. It was all in my attitude.</p>

<p>You are clearly in a state of mind where college is not a positive experience. If you have taken 12 courses at Swarthmore and not found a single class or professor who lights your fire, you are unlikely to ever find one. Do something about it.</p>

<p>Interesteddad:</p>

<p>I know a lot of people "would kill" to have my spot but that's one of the last things on my mind right now. Financial aid is part of the reason but certainly not the main one. As far as taking a year off, that is something that in my family, is not accepted. They have a hard time understanding my need to find what it is I need/want from the college experience and would rather me just stick it out. They have however encouraged me to transfer but what i'm most afraid of is going to another school only to find more of the same. I do have very negative attitudes towards a lot of things but this I will take care of as time goes by. I don't hate swarthmore exactly, i'm just not loving it but as many other things in my life, I'll deal with that as well. Thanks for the advise though. I'm glad to hear that your daughter loves her time there because such is the case with many people at Swat. Unfortunately for me though, my family is not very supportive of my needs and prefers to ignore the fact that there is clearly something wrong which thinking more about it, speaks more of me/my family then it does of Swarthmore.</p>

<p>Freddy:</p>

<p>No need to answer because this is not really the place for individual situations. However, I would strongly urge you to use the resources at Swarthmore as soon as you get back to help get in a more positive frame of mind if you are going to stay there. You should not be miserable in college (well...except maybe during finals week!)</p>

<p>I see three options here:</p>

<p>a) If it's Swarthmore, then you need to go somewhere else.</p>

<p>b) If it's college, then you need to take some time off and come back recharged. Go do Peace Corps or something.</p>

<p>c) If it's none of the above, then you need to figure out how to make your situation more positive.</p>

<p>I have absolutely no idea what is causing your unhappiness with your courses, your professors, and your fellow students. You certainly shouldn't feel alone. There are tons of college kids who are not happy at college and it becomes kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. There are people at Swarthmore who can help you try to figure it out. Good luck!</p>

<p>Just to chime in to this discussion here, I have a friend who attends Swat and loves it - both because of the people and the education. As has been said many times, he feels like he is getting the best college education possible. And he feels that most people are very down to earth and fun, and this guy is not one of those "hermits" in high school - actually very social. As for the academics, he feels that they are challenging but not impossible. He did not have straight-as (or close to it) in high school, but he's holding a 3.5 at least (I'm not sure) at Swat and he finds plenty of time to hang out with friends.</p>

<p>Then again, it might be that his high school (also mine) has prepared him for the challenge. As I read through these comments, I see plenty of them that say "high school could never have prepared me for this". Our high school is a selective public school, and has much of a college atmosphere. It is not strange here to find 2-3 10+ page papers due on the same day (when it's midterm or finals week). The style of teaching can also differ, and there is a HUGE emphasis on analysis, esp. in history classes. This has probably prepared him well for Swat. </p>

<p>I agree with the comment above about a "self-fulfilling prophecy". While Swarthmore is very hard and definitely not for everyone, it is a place to be taken with an open mind. The education and happiness that you get at Swarthmore is really dependant on you - as is most things in life. Go out and get what you want - be proactive :). </p>

<p>As for the people who breezed through a difficult high school curriculum and found Swat to be overwhelming, I think an issue may be that he/she breezed through high school. Getting a 4.0uw at a difficult high school shows the natural genius of a person, but it also accustoms them to easy gains. In other words, he may not have been ready for so much work, and crumbled. Other people who may not have been as "smart", but worked their asses off in high school, know how to work that hard and did it at Swat.</p>

<p>Freddy,</p>

<p>Don't feel so badly about your experiences there, and don't feel so isolated. It seems many Swarthmore students have the same experiences that you are having. I definitely got the impression during my visit that many students were overwhelmed by the place and loved to talk about how miserable and busy they were/are. Is it true that the mental health workers there are overworked also from the large number of students needing their services?</p>

<p>Maybe you need a break, but you're not crazy and you're certainly not alone. There's nothing wrong with your writing either.</p>

<p>Thanks kelly...</p>

<p>I don't know if the mental health workers are overworked per say but a fair amount of the people I know visit them if just to chat with someone who will listen to them without judgment. I think i'm going through the sophomore slump right now more than anything but like I said, things will get better and my schedule next semester looks like one that i'll be enjoying with profs that i've heard only good things about. Thanks ID for your advice as well.</p>

<p>ReadyFreddy1 and Descant,</p>

<p>I have a D who graduated in 2004. She was the happiest girl in the world while there, and it practically broke her heart to leave! (Descant, she was a singer and had a great voice teacher while there. Do you sing?) However, I also have two parents who attended Swat, and I gather the academic pressure is about the same now as it was then. ReadyFreddy, my father would agree with MUCH of what you say. Not a happy camper! My mom was somewhere in the middle. </p>

<p>So, from this and the posts above, it clearly does appear that the individual experience may vary a LOT! </p>

<p>To the OP, ask yourself what sorts of things you enjoy doing the most. If you really enjoy learning, are passionate about a subject or major you can spend lots of time becoming absorbed in, and that subject is available at Swat, don't give up the idea yet. Think about what you were drawn to about the school. Really analyze your own values and goals, and then see where they are most likely to fit. </p>

<p>Do you have lots of other choices if you do decide to do RD at Swat? Is there a commonality among them? </p>

<p>I know this is a tough time to try to make up your mind, but if you truly are NOT sure after you have considered this carefully, you may not want to continue the EDII process. You may wish to keep your options open. Good luck!</p>

<p>Misery Poker is an entrenched part of the Swarthmore culture. Here are a couple of definitions from the web:</p>

<p>Misery Poker - An informal game, played amongst friends, in which each participant competes to prove that he/she has the toughest workload, most pathetic life, etc. For instance: "I've got a paper due at 8 AM tomorrow morning!" "You think that's bad? My thesis is due in three hours!" "Oh yeah? Well, my thesis is due in two hours - and I haven't even started it!" Repeat ad infinitum.</p>

<p>misery poker
noun 1. competitive work load sharing; what swatties play during exam time "I've got 20 pages and three tests" "well I've got 60 pages and two tests."</p>

<p>Like many such cultural norms it reflects, at least in part, the reality of the place -- not only that expectations for the quantity and quality of academic work are high, but also that academic work is one of the centers of student life.</p>

<p>It doesn't mean that there is no fun to be had at Swarthmore, that most Swatties are miserable all the time, there is no time for trips to Philly or beyond, hanging out, etc. etc.</p>

<p>It does mean that it is culturally expected to complain (or whine, depending on your point of view) about how much work you have. Prospects or visitors hearing a round of misery poker should not take it as literal truth. If you want to know how much time Swatties end up spending on academic work, ask them outside the setting of misery poker. You will certainly get a range of answers.</p>

<p>From the fact that Swarthmore fields many athletic teams and students are active in a wide variety of clubs and other extracurricular activites, I think it is fair to say that many, perhaps most, students have time to spend on activites other than studying.</p>

<p>

That sounds a lot like my high school, actually. Does that mean I'd fit in at Swarthmore? ;)</p>

<p>but Swarthmore IS a feeder school for the elite grad schools, right? So that makes it worth it.</p>

<p>


If that's one's only reason for applying they may want to reconsider.</p>

<p>Just wanted to express my thanks for the incredible amount of PM's, and back and forth responses that I got from Swat students and parents. I just lost sight of why I originally wanted to go to Swat (these horror stories were no help) and just needed to be reminded of it. I now know Swat is the school for me - more so than I did before this "fiasco".</p>

<p>I guess it's true when people say Swat is a kind, warm, supportive and collaborative environment. </p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>