<p>Let's all take a deep breath and put things in some perspective. Swarthmore is one of the finest undergraduate institutions in the U.S., with few if any peers in terms of the intellectual seriousness of its student body. Face it, it ain't a "country club" entree into society, and the vast majority of matriculants are fully aware of this- you work hard to get in and you have to enjoy the life academic and work hard while there. The alum who didn't treasure his/her Swarthmore years, in my experience is actually pretty rare. BTW, another distinguishing characteristic of the school is that it was co-ed from day 1 (most other elite colleges/universities are johnny-come-latelies in this regard).</p>
<p>We have a D at Swarthmore and she is now a senior. She spent two days at Swarthmore before deciding. She has heard that Swarthmore is very hard and students are stressed out; she didn't want to spend her college years that way. She came back with a good impression though. She has been to a party that weekend and has talked to about 10 students about academic stress. They have told her that unless she is willing to work she should not come there, but there is plenty of time for partying and other EC stuff. She said that none of the students look like stressed out; "they are my kind of people, work hard and play hard."</p>
<p>By the way, she got into several LACs and several IVYs. She did not consider IVYs at all, spent nights at Amherst, Bowdoin and Swarthmore and selected Swarthmore.</p>
<p>In the very first semester she got heavily overloaded and had very little sleep. That was her own fault, she took a heavy load including two science lab classes against better advice. She is from an average public high school and she was used to be above everyone else and taking the hardest schedule on school and still having lot of time to spare. So, like many others who got to this level colleges, she didn't understand what "hard" is until that first semester. At the end of the semester I asked whether she thinks that she would have been happier at a different college. She said that it was a really tough semester, and without the support of her friends she would have gone crazy. She wasn't sure whether students in other colleges band together to support like Swarthmore students do. ("If I went to a different college, I still would have taken hard classes and without this support, I would not have survived.")</p>
<p>Now she is a happy senior doing many other things in addition to classes. Last year, she was ordering some stuff on-line. When asked, she said she is buying a gift for herself. She got all 'A' s in the semester. "It took sometime, but I am finally where I used to be." (She usually never tells us her grades and we don't ask.)</p>
<p>"Some students wouldn't feel 'balanced'"</p>
<p>And since the incidents enumerated were perpetrated by an infinitesimally small minority of students (or visitors), the vast majority of students were not affected/"unbalanced" by them at all (any more than they would be while reading about boneheaded occurrences elsewhere in this world of ours) -- except to agree that they were idiotic things to have done.</p>
<p>Actually, if such incidents occur on a small LAC campus, I'd hope that all students would feel affected/"unbalanced" by them, since it happened in their community... Ideally, of course, they'd also feel that way about boneheaded occurrences elsewhere in this world of ours. That would hopefully make this world of ours a better place some day.</p>
<p>It's still a rather "large" community of 2,000-2,100 students, 300 faculty, hundreds of staff -- all with a lot on their plates. And ideals are nice and all, but not always practicable (like a recent student comment that communism is great in theory, but not-so-great in practice).</p>
<p>
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It's still a rather "large" community of 2,000-2,100 students, 300 faculty, hundreds of staff -- all with a lot on their plates. And ideals are nice and all, but not always practicable (like a recent student comment that communism is great in theory, but not-so-great in practice).
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<p>I don't think that's a great analogy. For every privileged student who feels communism has failed in practice, you can probably find a homeless person or starving third-worlder who feels capitalism has failed in practice. It's all a matter of perspective. What I agree with is that, even if it is the student body's perspective that such acts as pro-Nazi vandalism be taken very seriously and disparaged because they are a violation of certain shared ideals (which, by the way, are a pretty big deal to Swarthmore students), I don't think that's a relevant metric for comparing Williams to Swarthmore. Again, we're talking about isolated incidents, not campus-wide culture. Williams isn't full of Nazis anymore than Swarthmore is full of table-throwers.</p>
<p>I would hope that pro-Nazi vandalism, racist vandalism, homophobic vandalism, etc would be taken very seriously on any campus - because, as A.E. rightly put it, they are "a violation of certain shared ideals (which, by the way, are a pretty big deal to Swarthmore students)".</p>
<p>If "a community of 2,000-2,100 students, 300 faculty, hundreds of staff -- all with a lot on their plates" appears to be too large to care that there are Nazi posters on their campus, I would not want my kids to be a part of it. (BTW, I am in no way implying that this was the case at Williams - I am assuming that the incident was taken seriously by all the students, faculty and staff.)</p>
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I am assuming that the incident was taken seriously by all the students, faculty and staff.)
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<p>It was taken seriously by a couple dozen members of a Jewish students organization who held an open forum. Not one member of the administration, staff, or faculty cared enough to show up. Nada. Bupkis. The deafening sound of institutional crickets.</p>
<p>That's like saying that for every group of 3000 members of the intelligensia, a certain percent will be white people who are Hitler or Neonazi sympathizers, who hate minorites, gays, mentally challenged people, mentally ill people, disabled people, many religious groups, gypsies, etc etc etc. Which is what Hitler sympathizers would stand for, as Hitler murdered many millions from all of the above groups. There is no excuse, for a supposedly educated Williams student who should have studied history, to not realize that Hitler-supporting posters support the annihilation of all of these groups. And if the Williams' student who posted the Hitler-sympathizing materials is herself emotionally challenged, she could have been a Nazi target, even if she sees herself as part of the Aryan Nation.</p>
<p>The level to which Williams tolerated her is sobering, as Willams is supposed to be a school that provides leadership.</p>
<p>Either it is not representative of all elite schools, or Williams attracts and/or admits a greater percent of bigots, given the percent of their small community who tolerated her "plate".</p>
<p>Well, if a Williams parent who thinks that it's no big deal to have Hitler posters posted on campus (on the Holocaust remembrance day, no less...) because only a few people were involved, so everyone else can just go their happy ways and be preoccupied with what's "on their plate" is in any way a representative of the college community, then no wonder...</p>
<p>Some communities believe a tight policing of behavior is appropriate. Others allow more latitude and trust members to sort out behaviors for themselves. I don't think we can make judgments about the morals, politics or open-mindedness of either community based on differing styles.</p>
<p>However, as far as I have seen Williams parents have been unfailingly polite and supportive about Swarthmore. I don't understand parents broadcasting unfortunate incidents to bolster their own children's school at the expense of another.</p>
<p>However, it would be very mean spirited of me to say that this reflects badly against Swarthmore or its students.</p>
<p>I think it is healthy to keep debates alive about neonazism on campus, and yes to be judgmental about it in all circumstances, whether you feel that Hitler has become politically correct or not. </p>
<p>You may remember that this thread was begun by someone who has never even stepped on the Swarthmore campus. What better way to begin an open discussion about LACs than by someone who has not experienced the campus under discussion.</p>
<p>MythMom, I missed your connection with Swarthmore? Are you just part of some PC police force, here to defend Williams, neonazism and Hitler? Are you going to cite your credentials as an expert on Hitler and how students should be allowed to be devotees to the extent of putting up posters supporting him on Holocaust Remembrance Day? Do you do that at work and defend it? Personally I defend the victims, such as gays, minorities, gypsies, mentally retarded, mentally ill, etc etc etc, and hope that we do not allow the Third Reich to repeat itself in the name of "college students will be college students."</p>
<p>Hm. What was I saying about communities with a strong sense of policing? And who makes the rules?</p>
<p>If things are being said about institutions I am connected with I certainly have a stake and obligation to respond.</p>
<p>What happened at Williams is inexcusable, including the lame response from the administration.</p>
<p>Do you teach there? Did you respond to the administration in strong protest about the Hitler posters, if so?</p>
<p>Well, I don't teach there, but I am connected to the school by your rules.</p>
<p>However, I am a college professor and a Jew so your comments about my defense of Hitler and indifference to the return of the Third Reich made me giggle. I also have been asked to visit local high schools and teach about the Holocaust, which I have done, and was/am part of a group developing Masters in Holocaust Education and Human Rights for the institution I teach at.</p>
<p>I respect Swarthmore very much. I think it's a wonderful, amazing school which I have said in numerous places. I don't think its luster is burnished by attacking another school to deflect a disgruntled alum's criticisms.</p>
<p>In the Middle Ages it was believed that the best response to the Devil was laughing at Him. </p>
<p>As I said, styles differ. </p>
<p>BTW: One of my areas of expertise is intellectual history which I frequently teach.</p>
<p>I just happened to see this and was kind of amused, considering Williams' President, Morty Shapiro, invites students to his home to break the Yom Kippur fast. I really don't think that he's exactly in favor of Nazi support at his school. Perhaps his response is to not react violently and vehemently to a trivial matter and perhaps he doesn't want to "feed the Beast" as posters seem to want to here, where this issue is still alive for some reason.</p>
<p>"(Julie) Cordray had the idea to make mock remembrance fliers after encountering the Holocaust Remembrance Day posters that members of the Williams College Jewish Association (WCJA) posted on students’ doors April 15. Cordray said she regarded the sign as an invasion of her personal space. “I felt afraid to take it off,” she said. “Some friends and I were talking about it, wondering if we were allowed to recycle this dead Jewish person someone put on our door.”</p>
<p>In response, Cordray decided to create mock remembrance fliers, an act she thought would be amusing and would serve to comment on the invasiveness of the WCJA posters. “I thought it’d be funny to post some other kind of remembrance posters,” Cordray said. “My first thought was the Alamo – remember the Alamo – because I’m from Texas. But 420 came first, before any kind of Alamo remembrance day.”</p>
<p>April 20th, last Friday’s date, is both Adolf Hitler’s birthday and an informal holiday recognized by marijuana smokers and known as “420.” This coincidence dictated Cordray’s content choice for the posters. As she noted in her letter, “These fliers included images of a marijuana leaf and historical images of Adolf Hitler, which both bizarrely intersect each year on April 20.”</p>
<p>The satirical posters, which were designed by Cordray’s non-student friend, were modeled closely after the Holocaust Remembrance Day posters. The WCJA posters each featured a six-pointed star, a photo and a description of a person killed in the Holocaust, along with the word “Remember.” The newer posters had a similar layout, but replaced the face of the Holocaust victim with the face of Adolf Hitler and the Jewish star with a marijuana leaf. They had quotes from Hitler in place of descriptions of the peoples’ deaths."
Above from the Williams Record, 4/25/07</p>
<p>Greydad: This does not seem to be a trivial matter, although you of course have the right to consider this amount of effort to glorify Hitler trivial. I presume that you think that Morty Shapiro would consider it trivial, as well, regardless of who comes to his house to "break the fast" after Yom Kippur.</p>
<p>MythMom: I don't see why you are giggling about the Holocaust. I am only trying to point out that having someone at Williams glorify Hitler in response to Holocaust Remembrance Day is inexcusable. I have no personal stake in Williams' reputation vis a vis other schools. I am more concerned that a student at a supposedly elite institution would do this, with so little response by a college president, regardless of his own observance of eating after a holiday with students. This event could have been made into an important talking point for the students at Williams, but Pres Shapiro did not view it as such. And for that he should feel shame, no matter what religion he is.</p>
<p>I care not about this competition between elite schools. I actually prefer nonelite schools, where there is a much more consciousness of struggle.</p>
<p>I am not giggling about the Holocaust. I am giggling at your assumptions about my relationship to it.</p>
<p>Wow. The question is: WHY do you want to give something so ugly so much attention? Yes, this is ugly. EVERYONE thinks so! The question is, how to handle it. By considering something so ugly to be important, you are just feeding the energy around it and making it MORE important which brings more attention to it which brings out more ugliness. By taking the high road, Morty is intelligently letting it die an ugly death. There is no question that Morty and the rest of us are repulsed by such a blatant display of hatred. Have no doubt about it. It makes us all sick. But by drawing attention to it, you make something that is already repulsive continue to live instead of quietly dying, after we are all duly repulsed. Then it's gone. By continuing to keep the ugliness alive, you ARE supporting ugliness! If we instead consider it not worthy of our attention, then the very reason it was done (to get attention) goes no where and dissipates!</p>
<p>If you can't keep gunman/mass murderers, under Psychiatric care and on heavy meds, out of schools, how do you stop people from exercising their right to free speech, however repugnant it may be?</p>