<p>It looks like the choice for D is down to these two. She'll visit both in the next two weeks and decide. If cost were the same, I think the choice would be easy (WU). It's also an emotional favorite as my alma mater. *<strong><em>BUT</em></strong> is it worth spending $70K more (after aid packages) over 4 years? Right now, she's interested in Biology and Neuroscience, probably not with a pre-med focus, but I suppose that's a possibility. Research opportunities will be an important consideration, and the stature of the faculty at WU is probably higher, but OC seems particularly good about providing these opportunities and encouraging students to take advantage of them, and because of its size and teaching culture it seems like the access/mentorship will be better there. We're not expecting our kid to do cutting-edge research as an undergrad, but rather get training in how to do high quality research later. I think on balance, the ability to get into graduate schools is close to the same from the two places. The big academic advantage I see at Wash U is that if bio/neuro doesn't turn out to be what she wants to do, the number of possibilities in other areas are probably better (e.g., social sciences).</p>
<p>Other stuff that tips the balance one way or another:
*The accommodations are likely considerably nicer at WU.
*The location/lack of isolation is definitely better at WU.
*I have a worry that the higher concentration of pre-meds at WU might influence the bio department, and make it's purpose to weed out sub-standard med school applicants rather than impart knowledge (ok PhD snobbery there, sorry)
*The lack of greek system is a plus at OC, but it may be that the Co-Ops/special interest housing at OC, while seemingly a polar opposite in culture have a similar hegemonic influence on student life.</p>
<p>I do think that the research opportunities at Washu are extremely good. Like OC, the administration at washu greatly encourages undergraduates to participate in research, and facilitate it as best as they can. Additionally, the fact that washu’s med school is one of the top in the country was also one of the draws of washu research for me.</p>
<p>I’m not going to attempt to claim that there is no weeding out at washu, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is at the expense of a quality education. In my experience, many of the “weed-out” classes get that reputation due to the sheer amount of material presented, not that it was taught poorly nor that the grading was unnecessarily strict (They might have high standards, but the quality of student is proportionately high as well, so I believe it is fair).</p>
<p>I’m not familiar with OC to make the assertion that the difference in quality of education is worth $70,000; I’d guess that it likely is not. That being said, to me Washu is worth an extra $70,000 over Princeton simply due to location and feel of the university. It’s really up to you and your daughter to work out just how much the subjectives are worth.</p>
<p>tw23md, I am in the same situation as you. Alum parent with D accepted at WU and Oberlin. I just wrote about 6 paragraphs explaining the differences, but lost them all when the web site logged me out. That will teach me brevity.</p>
<p>Bottom line, I don’t know. It’s small vs. larger. Biggest pluses for Oberlin, in my mind, are the calendar, and the lack of ridiculous distribution requirements. WU is more of a known quantity, and I know it well since one child is already there. Even though larger, WU is still a place where the professors actually teach, and most are available to students (at least in the humanities, I can’t speak for sciences). I have the same concerns you do about opportunities. Smaller is great if there is a fit, but bigger has more options, and the opportunity to re-invent one’s self after freshman year. Let’s face it, outside of college confidential and US News, people still think WU is in DC or WA. Most only know ivy league schools, or schools with football teams. Those of us who’ve done our homework know that WU is a great school (even if it is a little too good at playing the US News game, and even if it still overworks its students as it suffers from ivy envy). Oberlin is cool, but quirky, and always had a reputation for academic excellence. How can anyone really know? I’ll be joining you on the re-visit circuit. Best of luck.</p>
<p>By the way, RyanMK, love your spirit but take Princeton and pay the money. Some reputations are worth it (regardless of whether they are deserved).</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong; if I was presented with the option between WUSTL and Princeton + $70,000, I’d immediately take Princeton + $70,000. I realize my previous post implied otherwise, but I am aware that there is no possible way in which I could objectively justify choosing WUSTL, despite my entirely subjective view that washu’s “feel” far exceeds that of Princeton’s. That’s not to say the subjectives are not important, but rather less important than the objectives.</p>
<p>Ruppy1- I wouldn’t worry about who knows what schools. I live in Florida, and I can guarantee that hardly anyone has heard of Oberlin. However, those people who really matter (grad and professional schools) are the ones that know. I know that Oberlin is a great institution and has been for many years. It’s harder for kids to get away from the brand name issue, especially since they are very status conscious. As an aside I have posted my son’s college acceptances on FB. My status got the most likes when I posted his acceptance to Johns Hopkins. Few likes when he got into WUSTL- as Tip O’Neill ince said, all politics are local, so often times a school’s prestige depends on where the school is located and who is talking about it.</p>
<p>I was just reading some other threads. The best advice I’ve heard, which I heartily second, is to go to each college’s section and read the comments. You can learn plenty. You are, of course, completely correct about fit being important. I should also add that motivation means a hell of a lot more these days than where you went to school (at least in the job market).</p>
<p>Psychodad, Graduate schools and possibly employers would be the only practical concerns. We are, I think, in agreement. Most people didn’t know which schools are good before US News started ranking, and they don’t know now. Educated people should know of Oberlin and WU, even in FL.</p>