My son is not into drinking and not interested in fraternities. Should he even apply to Washington and Lee? He is interested in it for the general geographic area, good academic reputation, LAC, size, setting, etc…but if he would be miserable as a non drinker non Greek, we want to know. OR…do non drinkers join fraternities here? If frats are so important/prevalent, does that mean that there are more options that would be suitable to nondrinkers? THanks.
Parent of recent grad here. Nondrinkers do join frats, some of which are much less about partying than others. Guys who don’t join frats but are involved in religious life, community service, the arts, outdoor programs, etc. have plenty of social opportunities.
There is a growing body of students at W&L who aren’t into the frat party scene, but the number is still relatively small. They tend to be a rather tight-knit group and from what I can tell they are generally quite happy. The reality is that no matter where someone your son goes, he will likely end up socializing with a small set of like-minded students. The only drawback of W&L is that the number of like-minded students is likely to be less than at some other schools. I I wouldn’t rule out W&L on that basis, particularly if your son is into the outdoors at all. W&L is second to none on that front, with numerous outdoors opportunities. In the last few years, for example, students have biked across Italy and hiked in the Himalayas. Those opportunities are in addition to regular hiking, camping, caving, etc. in the area and regular trips to places like New Mexico.
In addition, there are numerous curricular and co-curricular opportunities to go abroad. Students study in six of the seven continents each year, with quite a few options within them. I think a non-drinker could be quite happy at W&L.
The Greek system as a whole is much more inclusive at W&L than at many schools. I was the complete opposite of the stereotypical frat guy when I entered W&L a decade ago, but got invited to pledge and had a lot of good times. I was also a non-drinker when I entered but did drink in moderation while there. My fraternity did have at least a couple total non-drinkers.
I would be very wary of going to Washington & Lee if the student did not want to participate in greek life. They will be ostracized just as they will if they stand up for diversity.
OP, absolutely nothing to fear there. It’s optional, inclusive and not the sort of keg-through-the-window scene that exists at some big state schools. (I grew up in College Park, MD and delivered newspapers in a neighborhood where college kids lived, including fraternities. Now THOSE kids were serious about their drinking.)
I was in Lex today doing a tour with two of my kids and we met several non-greeks who gushed about W&L and their experience. Our non-greek guide currently lives with “greeks” from multiple sororities who nevertheless chose to live together. That’s exactly how I remember my own non/social/occasional greek experience there. We saw empty beer cans in front of one 3rd year dorm/apt and tons of kids in the library. Kinda says it all. Kids drink in college. If it isn’t greek it’s happening in the dorms.
Honestly, way too much is made of this. I saw one student with a greek sweatshirt today. One. W&L is a serious institution and these kids have no choice but to work hard or they’re gone. The John Blutarsky’s don’t get in or don’t last long.
Although W&L has a pretty active party scene, it is also an intense academic environment. My kid said there are people who do not participate in the party scene. I don’t think he would be “ostracized” as characterized by the previous post.
There’s definitely plenty to do for kids not in the Greek scene. Fraternities are pretty welcoming and host multiple open parties for all students. There are a lot of options for students that don’t drink. Friday Night Underground, a non-drinking weekly event, for example. It’s kinda like a coffee house vibe in one of the houses’ basement and features student musicians,etc. Parents can check it out during Parents’ Weekend.
Sorry but the fact is that those that don’t drink and are not part of the Fraternity structure are treated as outcasts by all the white privilege men. When W&L gets more diversity including a larger percentage of minorities and a larger percentage of non-greek it may change. They have a Lee Chapel for heavens sake.
1 Like
I think I dislike the W&L defender more than the attacker.
OP, as several thoughtful posters said above (before all h*ll broke loose), I don’t think you need to be overly concerned by the greek scene. I went to W&L, have a friend with a daughter at W&L and have a daughter who is very interested. None of us feel like it defines the place or makes it unwelcoming to those who wouldn’t wish to participate.
Best of luck in the process!
If my kid didn’t want to participate in greek life, I sure wouldn’t let my kid apply to W&L. It’s a small school of only 2,100 students and roughly 75% of the student body does participate in greek life. It permeates the campus and social structure. If you are looking for “general geographic area, good academic reputation, LAC, size, setting” there are so many other LACs to consider that would be a better fit, IMO.
https://www.wlu.edu/student-life/student-activities/greek-life/resources/faq
“What percentage of the student population joins a Greek organization?
The majority of our first-year students will participate in formal fraternity or sorority recruitment; however, open bids and delayed participation remain viable options as long as a student maintains the minimum 2.5 GPA.
Approximately 75% of students are members of Greek organizations (76% of women; 74% of men).”
1 Like
It’s a bit like going to BYU as a Jew or Oberlin as a conservative Evangelical Christian: sure, you can do it, but why, when there are so many excellent LACs they would be equally good academically and less intensely Greek? Think Haverford, Holy Cross, Davidson, URichmond…
1 Like
MODERATOR’S NOTE: Please cut out the bickering.
Uh…no. At BYU over 98% of students are members of the LDS Church. Likewise, Oberlin is universally acknowledged to have one of the most liberal/progressives student bodies in the country. A conservative Evangelical Christian there would be much rarer and more isolated (if not ostracized) than the 25% of non-greek students at W&L who at most will miss out on some social opportunities.
I will chime in here. I was in the first groups of coed classes at W&L, and my D18 just got a Johnson Scholarship there. My sense of Greek life is from my own experience, and what I learned during her application process and the NUMEROUS visits she did.
For women, at least, the Greek scene is not really intense. Sorority women are free to eat meals at any of the various sorority houses as part of their dining plan, and my D and I spoke to several women who confirmed this is true. While I was there, the Greek parties were open, and it seems as if that is still true. I don’t think the women’s experience in rushing is super exclusive if women are open to accepting bids from various houses. No alcohol was EVER served at an official sorority event that I attended. EVER.
Historically, the fraternity houses were a way to house and feed upperclassmen, which explains the overall participation rate (which btw was about 90% Greek men back in my day).
I was friends with people who were party hard types, and evangelical Christian teetotalers. My husband, who also attended W&L, was a fraternity guy who lived with three independent men (two teetotalers, btw, who didn’t care if he drank beer on the weekends) his junior year. They all couldn’t have been more different, except they all loved going to school at W&L.
Previous posters have it right that if you feel very strongly anti-Greek, then perhaps W&L is not right for you, but I wouldn’t assume that Greek life, and the percentage of people who are part of it at W&L, conform to what you may see at other schools.
There’s a difference between being actively anti-Greek and simply not wanting to participate. If a quarter of the school doesn’t participate, surely they can befriend one another and hang out.
Now, if a kid were an anti-Greek campaigner, then yeah – W&L would be a constantly antagonizing experience.
Can anyone name a LAC that is more greek driven than W&L? Sure, academically it is a fine school but 75% greek is HUGE. Like really, really HUGE. Even at schools with 30-40% greek participation, the presence is definitely felt.
1 Like
A lot of kids never drink before they get to college and as parents we would like to think that they will not in college but I don’t see the point of this discussion because a 17-18 year old will change a lot of 4 years of college plus there are so many different types of fraternities, some are very community service, there are also religious fraternities that aren’t allowed to drink in their houses so how can you say your child will remain non-drinker/non greek for the next 4 years?
@prezbucky : But wouldn’t the quarter of the school not participating in Greek life be freshmen who are not yet eligible to have joined a fraternity or sorority ?
Also, is there any school in the nation with higher Greek membership percentages ?
It is about how a kid who is not interested in Greek life like the University. Hard to say what a child will be like after four years but many have chimed in with knowledge that they don’t think this situation would be intolerable so I would go with that.