<p>The early bird does get the worm. UNLESS they are marginal candidates, as noted by 69er. But if one is a viable, strong candidate, he/she stands a much stronger chance of receiving offer of an appointment earlier than later. </p>
<p>Look at it this way ... you have 2 equally strong, appointable candidates. One gets the application and all issues in by September 1. The other gets it all done by the USNA deadline of 1 March, at which time a great many, the vast majority of apptmts will have been reviewed, rejected, offered, and/or put on hold. Many, prbly most apptmts. have already been offered. Yep, still spaces remaining, but who had the better shot? This is not brain surgery, and it reveals that the single most important variable ... for qualified candidates ... to receive an appointment is timing. The reality is that the longer the viable candidate waits, the less chance he/she has of receiving an appointment from any source. And the odds are on a sliding scale starting when the 1st apptmt. is made to the final one. </p>
<p>Said a slightly different way ... the person who waits to apply puts himself/herself at a substantial disadvantage.</p>
<p>Why? Because there are a finite number of slots. When they're gone, so are all the remaining viable candidates. </p>
<p>So yep, early birds are in much better position.</p>
<p>Nope, not brain surgery at all. They both have absolutely the same chance. Either both will get in or both will be rejected. No way the earlier application would have an extra chance. The vast majority of those submitting applications prior to the end of November will either have their package held by Admissions and not go before the board or go before the board and then be placed on hold. Only the highly qualified will be either offered LOAs are be declared scholastically qualified. The great unwashed masses will be held until a definitive cutoff can be established. Those above this cutoff will be declared qualified. Those below will not. Why would the Academy rush this? They must wait until the MOC nominations are submitted in January.</p>
<p>Well that's comforting to think one who applies 1 Mar has the same chance of appointment as the 1 Sept applicant, but I'm not sure it's accurate. Let's look at this a bit differently.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>First and foremost, were that the case, there'd be no need or advantage for rolling admissions. You'd simply need and early decision or early accept approach. But as we know, students receive appointment decisions starting early and it continues from that point. Again it's very safe noting that most apptmts. are offered before 1 March, and occur throughout the fall, winter and into the spring.</p></li>
<li><p>Anecdotally, of the 8 recent appointments over the past 4 years from our local area, all but one were offered prior to 5 Mar (and this was a minority LOA), with the earliest coming in Nov. </p></li>
<li><p>Nearly all MOC noms are completed long before 1 Mar. Therefore viable candidates applying after this would be left to other and fewer sources.</p></li>
<li><p>As they compete at that point, they're competing with a presumably greater nationally representative pool than the earlier applicants who had a shot for nominations at the district and state level.</p></li>
<li><p>Let's illustrate a hypothetical case ... suppose on 1 Mar 1,300 appointments (of maybe 1600-1800 to be offered) have been offered already
and for some reason, 5,000 applicants come rushing in the last week of April ... the stock market's crashed, Pearl Harbor has happened, who knows ... and it doesn't matter if your contention holds true.) And among this wave are many superior candidates, even to many already offered appointments. But there are now only a few hundred spots remaining. The obvious answer is that there are a limited number of appointments (even from the VP, Pres, Supe) and elsewhere, but more imporant only so many spots budgeted in the class. </p></li>
<li><p>Lastly, each and every year there are a number of fully qualified applicants who go unnominated and/or unappointed. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>The obvious upside to rolling admissions and rolling appointments is that the USNA is able to build a fully enrolled class of worthy students. It in no way guarantees that the best and brightest are among that class without exception. And that is the risk of rolling admissions. The benefit of a one date admissions notification would enable your scenario, i.e. that the equally qualified 1 Sept and 1 March applicants stand an equal chance of admission. Cannot be. A statistical impossibility and virtual improbability.</p>
<p>Some of the claims on here are marginal, but I'll try to explain it the best way I know how to without completely spilling all of the beans.</p>
<p>USNA69 was accurate when he stated that the Admissions' Office push to get applications in early is to identify the outstanding candidates first, get them locked in, grant necessary waivers, and get recruited athletes taken care of. The candidates receiving appointments before March 1 have:</p>
<p>1) High SAT scores and GPA (I mean 1400+ and 4.0+ GPA). They need to get these guys in before they decide to go elsewhere. History has shown that the more conscientious candidates who are strong academically often get in their applications earlier.</p>
<p>or</p>
<p>2) Outstanding leadership credentials and traits (USNA has spotted this candidate as a potential "leader". This person will probably sit in the middle when it comes to scores, grades, and other accomplishments.</p>
<p>In short, the admissions team needs to get its share of "scholars", "leaders", and "athletes" to begin drawing up company assignments. Though everyone at USNA should possess all three of these categories, these three are often used as a breakdown.</p>
<p>If you go to the Class Profile, the admissions team will always try to improve or maintain the same standards for those percentages you see. You may have a 1200 and be fully qualified, but they can't let you in until they get say, 2 more Eagle Scouts, 3 JROTC kids, and 6 kids in the National Honor Society. Then, if they need to raise the SAT math score and you happened to have over a certain score higher than the mean at that point, they could let you in. In short, the Academy has to meet quotas that adhere to the percentages you see in the class profile. The numbers get updated with each appointment awarded, and throughout the whole process, variables change. You may be a viable candidate one day, but when 3 varsity athletes are let in, they have to account for them by admitting a 1400+ person, and then you could be on the fence.</p>
<p>But, if you're qualified earlier, your application has a better chance because you're not competing against the rest of the national pool when USNA is scrambling to fit the quotas you see in the class profile and when they have to make company assignments to balance off the talent in different areas.</p>
<p>so 'XC,
would that put me at a disadvantage because I have no conventional varsity sports. I'm running cross country this year but that will be too late for USNA applications. I show horses competitively all over the nation and once internationally. But because I'm not a textbook varsity athlete that would put me at a bit of an advantage,</p>
<p>thanks,
Z
(and I'm getting my application in as fast as I can, advantage or no advantage)</p>
<p>Well, I'm not saying you're out if you don't compete in Varsity athletics. You really need something else compelling to get into the Academy without them. You could have a 1500 SAT, but if you never compete in sports and perform poorly on the CFA, your chances could be dim. The Academy is looking for "demonstrated athletic ability" so if your CFA is respectable, it won't be a huge hurdle if you have other stuff.</p>
<p>This is not brain surgery. A package is submitted. The CGO assigns the initial WPM. Things do not change that much from year to year. Historical data will allow the CGO to determine within a few percentage points, the predicted ranking of that package. The outstanding are presented to the Admissions Board. The Board evaluates the package, declares the candidate scholastically qualified, and then, perhaps, offers an LOA. They also assign further WPM points in the form of RABs, recommendations of the admissions board. The package is returned to the CGO where any further updates to increase the WPM are recorded by the CGO. The Admissions Board only declares SQ and does not make appointments. Appointments, made by the GGO are possible only when the MOCs have submitted their lists.</p>
<p>Initially, the board will only evaluate those records which the CGO deems outstanding. The remainder are placed on hold by the CGO until much later in the process. As an aside, the board likes a full agenda for each time they meet. Early on, if there are not enough outstanding packages, the CGO will work their way down the list. Some of these will go before the board, evaluated, assigned final RABs, and then be placed on hold by the board for future final evaluation.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, a giant matrix is being formed by the CGO. I would imagine computers have simplified it tremendously. Each MOC district has a WPM ranked list of all candidates in addition to an overall WPM ranked list.</p>
<p>Additionally, MOCs are preparing their nominations and can present their list in three formats, primary with competitive alternates, primary with ranked alternates, or competitive. Regardless, these nominations are not due to the CGO until the end of January. Many, if not most, do not beat the deadline by much. Supposedly, also, two thirds submit a competitive list which permits the CGO to make the final determination. When the CGO does receive the list, if it is a primary, and if that candidate is 3Qed, an appointment can be made. However, if it is a competitive list, the CGO must wait until all members on the MOC’s list have submitted and finalized their packages to such an extent than a without-a-doubt accurate final determination can be made. This usually does not happen until the March-April timeframe. As you can see, “rolling admissions/appointments” is somewhat of a misnomer.</p>
<p>Okay, a few LOAs have been sent out early, several of the highly qualified have been declared SQed early (and if they clear DoDMERB, 3Qed), a few primary candidates who are 3Qed whose MOC submitted a primary candidate, are offered appointments, but the majority of the action does not commence until the March-April timeframe. Federal law requires the MOC nominations to be completed prior to the national pool being appointed. Therefore, all the appropriate MOC nominations are awarded appointments and then the remaining candidates, by order of WPMs, are granted appointments sufficient to fill the class. Does the board look at a highly qualified candidate before this process runs it’s natural course and offer him an appointment, assured that the numbers will eventually work out? Maybe. I have seen no direct evidence but anecdotal evidence indicates a maybe.</p>
<p>The majority of the nominations are made in April well after the packages are closed and carefully ranked. The Board probably declares in excess of 2000 SQed in order to obtain 1800 or so 3Qed from which the CGO makes offers of appointment to approximately 1500. Therefore from this final ‘cushion’ of 2000, appointments will be made. The CGO expends a great deal of effort to ensure that the 1500 offers go to the best qualified. Evidence indicates they do a great job. To state otherwise, knowing how the system works, would imply willful negligence on the part of the CGO and since these are taxpayer dollars, a federal offense. I would state that with the exception of one or two, perhaps, candidates from extremely uncompetitive districts, the class is composed entirely of the top qualified available candidates. Fifty potential future Rhodes Scholar candidates making their initial and final applications on the deadline would simply bump the bottom of the WPM list of 2000. Hope this helps.</p>
<p>My twin sons both got LOA letters two days ago and they fall in category 3 and 2 indicated by GoNavyXC. I will not post their test scores on this forum, but I will say being an accomplished varsity athlete with good scores and</p>
<p>....demonstrated leadership (team captains. leading teams to state championships). They both loved NASS...especially the hyper competitive nature of the institution.</p>
<p>Their best friend went to USAFA Summer Seminar and did not like it. Too much time in the classroom and he felt there were too many geeks.</p>
<p>Listen to GoNavyXC because I think that is why my sons got the letters.</p>
<p>The primary focus of my discussion thus far has been to rebut the opinions that early applications are looked on more favorably because at the beginning the Board and CGO might not be as standardized or that later, no appointments will remain. While I feel, and have pointed out, that neither of these arguments are valid, I would be remiss if I did not mention the fact that it remains possible that the ‘early bird’ might get a slightly larger worm.</p>
<p>While the WPMs assigned by the CGO are concrete and objective, the RABs awarded by the Board are much more subjective. The Board is evaluating their opinion as to whether or not they believe that the candidate will succeed. A part of this success is commitment. Which shows more commitment, the candidate who applied for NASS and then completed his application as quickly as possible, or the candidate who was too lazy to fill out the more detailed application until he was assured that he had a Congressional nomination and of which the Academy intially becomes aware only from the MOC's nomination list? The actions of the Board are one of the world’s most closely guarded secrets, but I would suspect that it would be more difficult for a package submitted late in the process to demonstrate the commitment commensurate with the same package submitted earlier and the resulting lower ranking ensues.</p>
<p>CGO...please explain who this person is. I got MOC.
and USNA69....what should you do if you think your package is sitting on a Coach's desk. Should you request him to remove his consideration of you and put your file back in the admission's officer's hands? or are you stuck?</p>
<p>USNA69.....OK, should you be talking to these folks from September thru March? Is the person in the CGO you should connect with, your Regional Director? How much influence does the BGO and his liason have?</p>
<p>First off, I have been asked by PM from several folks to explain SQ (Scholastically Qualified) and 3Qed (Triple Qualified). There are three parts to the qualification; scholastically qualified, physically qualified (CFA), and medically qualified (DodMERB). When one has qualified in all three parts, they become triple qualified and only have to await the nomination. Scholastically qualified is somewhat of a misnomer. It not only covers academics, but also the entire remainder of the package, extracurriculars, recommendations, sports, leadership potential, the whole ball of wax. It is all of that to which the Admissions Board and CGO grant WPMs and RABs. It is even more of a misnomer now that the online application is in effect and the CFA has become a part of the package submittal in that the Board will not examine the record until the CFA is completed.</p>
<p>Along the same lines, the LOA letter used to mention that it is based on the successful completion of the CFA and BGO interview along with the normal things. The rules now are that the CFA must be complete along with the BGO interview before the CGO will submit the record to the Board. There are probably a few exceptions but those are the rules.</p>
<p>navy18, your BGO knows both the competitiveness of your area and the strength of your package. I would utilize his advice and only pursue an athletic approach if the academic package was probably noncompetitive.</p>
<p>My son, current plebe, never spoke to CGO at all. Met with BGO only once, for the candidate interview.</p>
<p>Follow directions, do everything in a timely manner, follow through. I don't think there's a need to talk to many people in official capacities. USNA knows what it's looking for. Show them who you are, as clearly as possible, and be the best SELF you can be.</p>
<p>GoNavy!, navy18 is responding to my post #56 in reference to voluntarily submitting an athletic package to a coach where it is imperative that personal contact be maintained with both the athletic dept and the CGO.</p>
<p>USNA'69 is correct in the fact that the Admissions Board's actions are some of the closely guarded secrets in the world. My post #64 explains alternate courses of action that I've learned from very reliable sources. The Academy doesn't want any of its candidates specifically tailoring applications just to get in.</p>
<p>If you're 3Q'd, you might sit on the waiting list to get an appointment. If USNA gave out appointments to all of the 3Q'd candidates as soon as they got their applications in, they'd run the risk of not having anymore for other highly qualified candidates who submitted their packages late. Historically, the national pool and late applicants are just as strong, if not stronger than some of the applicants who already have an appointment in hand. The solution to improving your chances: get your application in as early as possible-it shows inititative if nothing else.</p>
<p>Now, for the dilemma about getting coaches involved to assist you in the admissions process. Most coaches will contact you if interested, but there are many, many mids now who walked on and are now successful in their sports, they just never got looked at. My best advice is to ride your academics first, and then if you're not confident that your record might not get in alone (say like 1250 or lower on SAT), then contact the coaches, most will take interest and try to look you up by a simple google search.</p>
<p>"When one becomes an athletic prospect, their package becomes the responsibility of that particular coach instead of the Admissions Office. While the Admissions Office is choosing those final qualified candidates to fill out the class, your package is sitting on the coaches desk and, at the very end, when he decides there is no room for you on the team, and your package is handed back to the CGO, there are no more openings available" USNA69 Post 56</p>
<p>I found this quote so unbelievable I asked a Navy coach about this alleged practice. He stated that this is NOT the practice at all. The Coach is not responsible for an admission's package...that responsibility always rests with with the regional Admission's Officer or the Athletic Admission's Officer (if one is a recruited athlete). While it is true a Coach may not make a decision regarding the applicant's position on the team until late in the process (after reviewing all potential athlete applicants) this does NOT mean that the application is put in limbo. It continues on through the Admission's process, but without the endorsement of the Coach. The Coach stated that the scenario described by USNA69 would not only be unethical but impossibly absurd. Applications are submitted electronically to the Admission's office and remain within that office. The Coach will receive updates on the recruited athletes and athletes that they may have an interest in and will, in fact, encourage his recruits to complete the admission package in a timely fashion. But the scenario described by USNA69 does not happen.</p>
<p>If you are interested in Navy athletics by all means contact the coach. Just remember, your application should be able to stand alone without any potential help from the athletic department.</p>
<p>Your coaches above explanation does not account for a candidate, through his own initiative, attempting to become a possibly recruited athlete. It is during this decision process that my scenario applies. Maybe we have a semantics problem in translation. Of course the physical custody of the package remains with the CGO. However, for example,the timing of the package going before the board and whether it will be an athletic recruit becomes a joint responsibility with both the coach and the CGO. Anytime there are joint responsibilities, the possibility of joint failure exists. I have experienced two personal examples, both explained to me by the Admissions Office, one prior to the new online application and one in the early days of the electronic submittal. Perhaps things are improving, but it has happened.</p>
<p>Looking at it another way, the coach will only declare a certain amount of candidates as athletic recruits. The package probably will not go before the Board until he has made this determination. If this decision is not made until very late in the process and he decides in the negative, Whistle Pigs scenario of the early bird getting the worm might well apply.</p>
<p>Looking at it a third way, your coaches description is a black and white scenario of recruited athlete and non-recruited athlete. We have seen on this forum that this is not necessarily true, at least for some sports.</p>