I have always understood Unweighted (UW) to be on a 4.0 scale - ie. 4 = A, 3 = B, etc. However, weighting can be different by each school’s method: Honors A = 5.0? Honors A = 4.5 ? and so on. Some schools even differentiate by the type of A - for example, a 99 in an Honors class is worth a 5.0, while a 90 is worth a 4.5. For this reason, I always take weighted gpa with a grain of salt - since the methodology can vary so widely.
I understand Penn State’s stats for middle 50 to be 3.55 - 3.97 uw (it says on a 4.0 scale). In another thread, @Psuguy1818 talked about the weighting that admissions uses. I have not seen this scale.
I am surprised when kids with a W gpa of less than 4.0 get in so early. It seems like that would translate to a lot of B’s ? Or maybe it just translates to not many H/AP classes ?
Correct unweighted GPA is out of a 4.0. Penn State however only uses a weighted GPA to evaluate. But like you mentioned, The way schools wait GPA may vary across schools. The way your school weights your GPA will not hurt you in the admissions process, due to the fact that Penn State recalculates it’s own GPA. This was the point of upgrading to the New SRAR System as it recalculates the GPA for them I believe. It does not really matter how Penn State does it, what does matter is the amount of college level and honors level classes you have taken because that will translate to more it does not really matter how Penn State does it, what does matter is the amount of college level and honors level classes you have taken because that will translate to more Points being given on there weighted scale. It would be un realistic for PSU to ask for an unweighted 3.97. The only way your own high school can hurt you is not offering a Enough AP or honors level courses. This is how they take your course the bigger into account, by giving you extra points for your AP and honors classes.
I have learned all this info from many many calls to the admissions office while I was waiting for my decision this year… It might not all be exactly 100% accurate but should give you a general overview of how they evaluate your application.
I think the issue is the weighting scale. Some people who have under a 4.0W have a low UW GPA. Others, their schools weighting scale is very difficult so a WGPA of a 4.0 may really be a UWGPA of a 3.8 or 3.9. My daughters school was like that. Her honors classes only counted as 1.2 the weight of a non honors class, I’ve seen other schools where the weighting is double or even higher. So, that’s how these things can be so different among schools. I also think PSU uses the UW GPA. On another thread I put that it was weighted but that was a typo and I couldn’t go back to edit it when I noticed I typed it wrong!
So do you think the statistics Penn State reports on middle GPA (3.55-3.97) are the weighted number as PSU calculates it? Which would presumably be different than most students believe their own GPA to be?
@jlhpsu They don’t even ask for the unweighted on the application. The one they use to evaluate you is the recalculated weighted gpa which they calculate themselves based on your ap and honors classes. This way it does not matter what your high school weights grades as. Everyone’s honors classes r the same and everyone’s AP classes r the same. The ones they have on there website I (believe) are reflected of this.
@JSchoolorbust no exactly the opposite. I think the middle 50 (3.55-3.97) is UW. (based on a 4.0 scale) When I read “based on a 4.0 scale” - I read that as ‘the highest you can get is a 4.0 if you have all A’s’.
From what @Psuguy1818 is saying, these are using the SRAR to calculate a W gpa - using their own methodology. (since you have to list what level the course is when you enter it). Which may or may not be the same as each kid’s HS. I think W gpa is a valid indicator of academic rigor and how well kids have done in the harder AP/Honors classes, but you have to take it with a grain of salt since weighting is so different.
@jihpsu, that is interesting that a Honors class is worth 1.2. My kids’ HS is one of those that varies based on number grade. So an “A” of 94 is different than an “A” of 97. Never gives the kids a chance to breathe, but it certainly rewards the 99/100’s vs. the 91’s.
I actually think recalculating everyone’s GPA based on PSU’s own formula seems very fair and the right way to do things, as this accounts for huge differences in how schools weigh honors/AP.
The ones on there website aren’t an unweighted scale. Way too many kids get accepted with below that for it to be unweighted, including myself. It is likely there version of the calculated weighted GPA. And yes this makes it even across schools.
@lucyvanpelt My daughters school has an A at 94, 92-94 is an A-. Etc… But anything over a 94 is an A. Interesting way your school does it and probably one of the reasons Penn State can’t compare across WGPA!
@psuguy1818 The SRAR is brand new this year at Penn State. In previous years counselors had to submit a grading scale form with the transcript. PSU looked at the grades and the weighting scale to determine how you compared to other kids from your school and how you fit on the Penn State scale and went from there. The scale you gave the other day on the decision thread is one I’ve never seen before. So maybe that is the new way they are re-calculating GPA’s with the SRAR. If so, I think that’s good. You can’t compare across WGPA’s and that’s what I try to tell people on the chance threads if they only provide a WGPA. If your WGPA is a 4.2 but your UW is a 3.2, well, that could be trouble. But if your weighted GPA is a 3.8 and your UW GPA a 3.7, well then that’s probably ok.
So, aside from overall grade trends of the application pool, it seems like its a safe assumption that kids from the same HS that took the same sort of classes (AP, Hn, Regular) and got the same W and UW grades would be treated the same from year to year? That’s what most people can compare too since they know kids that did or did not get in.
@PAHoosier They will be treated the same as eachother in any one single cycle, but it may change year after year because the overall applicant pool changes. So what got someone in 3 years ago may not today, and someone who was denied 2 years ago may have been accepted in this cycle. The middle 50% is a moving target.
Yes, that makes sense. It does seem that the median 50% changes fairly slowly though. So unless there is a big change in how PSU computes the GPA figures they publish, similar kids (classes, grades and scores) from the same high school is about as good a comparison tool as you can get.
Ah ok @jlhpsu yes they changed it this year. They also do not compare you to kids in your high school at all. They can accept everyone from your school or no one is what I was told. So kids who go to better schools to have a significant advantage. For example my UW gpa was only a 3.45, however, my schools provided a TON of AP/Honors classes so I’ve taken well over 20 combined and my WGPA is a 4.1. But yah now they just recalculate everyone’s W GPA . They don’t really take UW into account because it dosent factor in rigor.
@Psuguy1818 They told you that they don’t compare your rigor and performance against others who have applied and who have gotten in in previous years? That would be new. They have always compared you to your peers, that way students who go to underperforming schools but out perform everyone at their school can be looked at favorably. I have a hard time believing they are leaving the underperforming schools out to dry.
Recalculating the GPA is fine. But they have to make concessions for schools that do not offer the honors classes - otherwise that is not only unfair but discriminatory.
@jlhpsu On the phone the admissions guy told me that they can accept everyone from your school or no one from your school. However what they do im sure take into account is the Opportunitty of your high school, in that while it can’t hurt you that your school does not offer a lot of those types of classes, if you do take a lot of the high rigor classes it does help you. Your right there is no way they don’t look at the opportunity your school provided but I don’t think they would say “ok we will only take a certain number from this school”. but then again I could be completely wrong lol… this is kind of just how I interpreted the admission reps what they said. Also I did not ask about the previous years thing, I only asked if they compare to others who have applied this year. I don’t see how they would do that unless we applied to the same major.
Also in all honesty, I’ve gotten a few different answers to a few different things from different admissions counslers so everything I say may not be exactly the way they do things but is intended to give a general overview of how your applications reviewed.
The use of the SRAR seems like it solves a lot of problems. I find it highly unusual if they don’t grouyp kids from the same high school together for evaluation. Not only is it efficient, but it also them to compare apples to apples. It’s a fairly common practice.
@psuguy1818 no, you are right about what you’ve interpreted as far as years past goes. There is no guarantee that anyone from a certain school will be admitted nor guarantee that once someone with similar stats is accepted, that someone with the same stats will be as well.