<p>I would re-read post No. 5 - it gets to the heart of the matter. Wellesley will open plenty of doors, but any school is what you make of it.</p>
<p>There are plenty of conservatives at Wellesley - they don’t take the off-the-wall lefties seriously. I wouldn’t let that be a factor. Four years contesting ideas is what college should be all about.</p>
<p>I think it could be useful to take a step back to before the waitlist offer from Wellesley happened. What other schools was she looking at besides the Air Force Academy? Was she struggling with her decision then?</p>
<p>Is it because it’s Wellesley, or is it because she’s not sure she wants the Air Force Academy?</p>
<p>Both schools will give your D an excellent education. Neither school will be a walk in the park or what I would describe as a “typical” American college experience.</p>
<p>We are also from the midwest, and my D just graduated from Wellesley. She also changed her college plans at the last minute to accept an offer from Wellesley’s waitlist. However, her prior choice was not an academy, but an in-state public in our hometown, which was the most affordable option prior to Wellesley. Due to financial need Wellesley was actually less expensive, so we had an easy decision. But there were times she wondered what life would have been like at a school that was less challenging and more traditional.</p>
<p>I think for students with multiple college options, there’s always an element of “buyer’s remorse” or “road not taken” wondering. You have to close the door on some dreams when you make your selection.</p>
<p>Best wishes to you and your D.</p>
<p>If your daughter’s only debt for for years would be $30,000 that is almost certainly manageable. </p>
<p>However if you and her other parent(s) are taking on a boatload of debt, that would be another story. Likewise, if Wellesley (or any other college/university for that matter) would mean that the family back home is living on rice and beans for four years or longer.</p>
<p>Your daughter has the grades, test scores, and recommendations to get into one of the academies, and into a true ivy-peer institution. This means that there are places that would admit her and offer her significant merit-based aid. In some cases up to a true full ride. If money is a bigger issue for your family than you have admitted to your daughter thus far, tell her the truth, and help her start planning for a gap year while she applies to a better list of institutions.</p>
<p>Wellesley offers some of the best need-based financial aid in the country. Chances are that you daughter wouldn’t receive much more need-based aid anywhere else except Harvard, Princeton, or Stanford where the their aid is truly exceptional. If you cannot afford what Wellesley is expecting, then your daughter needs to be looking at places that are cheaper to begin with than what you would pay for Wellesley and/or places that will offer her merit-based aid for her grades, test scores, etc.</p>
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<p>I agree. There are always the “it’s womyn, not women” contingent. My D told me that on a Facebook posting for W students, someone posted something along the lines of “Hey ladies, come to such-and-such event” and there were one or two who posted “don’t call us ladies, some of us are genderqueer” and blah blah blah, but you can pretty much ignore that. There are always a few extreme people everywhere.</p>
<p>I don’t think the choice here is USAFA vs Wellesley. I think the choice here is USAFA vs something else - that’s the first cut.</p>
<p>I know one thing that’s “not worth it:” making a military commitment for 8 years unless that is something you really want and are suited to. You don’t pay money for a service academy education but you pay in other ways. Your daughter may or may not be ok with this. </p>
<p>OP, can you clarify the amount of loans she would have to take out over four years?</p>
<p>OK. Here is the situation. Our daughter applied to all three military academies and you are right…it was a huge, long process. She received nominations to all three but only an appointment to the Air Force Academy. The value of their scholarship offer was $414,000. She would have been paid every month $900…half of a second lieutenant’s salary. Upon graduation, she would have had to have served for 5 years, but would have had a job. She wanted to go to law school…they would have paid or she could have gone afterwards.</p>
<p>Our daughter applied to all stretch schools and did not get into any of them. She was wait listed and 3 and Wellesley was one of them. In short, it came down between Indiana University and the USAFA.</p>
<p>Wellesley called when daughter was in Africa doing mission work with her high school. Their call sent the entire family into angst. They would not deal much with us because I am sure that on paper it looks like we have a lot of money, but the reality is we live WAY BENEATH OUR MEANS. Her Wellesley education is worth what our house is worth. </p>
<p>Upshot: she ended up choosing Wellesley and giving up the USAFA. I am not happy about this. I felt she should have tried the Academy and transferred in a year or two if she didn’t like it. She is 5’ 11 1/2…very disciplined…everyone thought daughter was a very strong candidate.</p>
<p>My husband (to make himself better about this mess) feels that Wellesley will open doors and propel her into a high powered career and situation with law school, etc. I am not so sure. I feel she would have done just as well at IU and that the Academy would most definitely have set her apart.</p>
<p>So, my question is this. Does Wellesley really open doors? Is it worth the extraordinary cost? Our daughter will have $30,000 in loans at the end. Wellesley is only giving us $11,700 per year off of the $240,000 cost. We have told her she cannot study abroad unless it is at her expense.</p>
<p>Lastly, in answer to the question about why she applied to the Military academies, she wanted an education and opportunity that set her apart.</p>
<p>Sign me “Angst in Indiana.”</p>
<p>where is your daughter from? What state and what are her interests?</p>
<p>I personally think the Wellesley connections are a big deal. I had a client chose me because of having W in common. The alumni association is strong. Hopefully, others will chime in.</p>
<p>I don’t think $30,000 is much, as a student probably can earn that much through summer internships. (20,000 for sure)</p>
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<p>There are plenty of HS graduates who are just as/more well-disciplined, physically conditioned, and more who ended up dropping or being forced out of a SA for a variety of reasons ranging from being unable to juggle an above average academic credit load with military training/drills, physical conditioning exercises, being micromanaged by academy regulations/officials/upperclassmen, serious physical injuries incurred during the training/drills, etc. </p>
<p>Moreover, most who transfer out of the academy voluntarily end up having few transfer options as their GPAs tend to be exceedingly low due to tough grading and the stresses of being in a 24/7 military environment while juggling an above-average credit load each semester. This includes everyone being required to take a certain number of engineering courses regardless of major…a serious issue with those more oriented towards to humanities or social sciences. Vast majority of undergrads have nowhere near the physical, overscheduling, and restriction demands that a SA requires of their cadets. </p>
<p>An older cousin who transferred out of an SA after one year is an anomaly as he was able to somehow manage to contain his irritation of being micromanaged while maintaining a high enough GPA so he was able to transfer into an HYPSMCC school. However, I must emphasize that he’s a rare exception as he’d repeatedly point out to parents of SA aspirants. </p>
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<li>I am also a smidgen under 6’. :)</li>
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<p>I’ve seen the W alumna networking in action firsthand with HS alums/past dates who are W alums. It’s not very far removed from the stereotypical cachet an HYP graduate could command in many industries…especially those in ibanking/finance, law, and Fortune 500 corporations. </p>
<p>Moreover, it may be a coincidence…but most W alums I’ve known tend to be center-right or bona-fide conservatives…especially when it comes to fiscal matters. Granted, that may also be because nearly all the ones I know work in ibanking/finance or other industries which tend to attract a greater proportion of those with such political orientations.</p>
<p>Our daughter was concerned that if she went to the USAFA and didn’t like it and wanted to transfer, she would feel like a quitter. I did not see it that way and neither did others. The fact is that very few 18 year old know what they want to do with the rest of their lives and 9 years seems like an eternity. </p>
<p>I was never for the academy thing, but I got used to the idea and was ready for her to go and support her doing that. We had purchased the plane tickets, etc. Everyone who knows daughter feels like she would have been a tremendous success there, as she would anywhere she went because of her leadership abilities.</p>
<p>Daughter applied where she wanted and did not seek our counsel. I went back to Wellesley and made an argument for more $$ and didn’t get a penny more. I wrote a third time with new arguments…still waiting to hear back.</p>
<p>The two choices between AFA and Wellesley could not be more polar opposites if you tried. The middle was IU and under the circumstances, that may have been the right decision. I agree the person about the gap year idea. Our daughter participated in a We the People program that took all of her time this past year and literally had no time to think. She doesn’t even have any idea what she would major in at Wellesley. With AFA, she would have majored in Foreign Affairs.</p>
<p>OP- thanks for clarifying.</p>
<p>I think you all need a sit down.</p>
<p>This is hardly a mess. You can read some of the threads here posted by people in really terrible situations-- yours is not one of them. Your D is healthy, a top student, ambitious and hard-working. What could possibly be bad about that?</p>
<p>Your family needs to decide if Wellesley is “worth it”. If it were my child and the choice was Indiana or Wellesley, I would make W happen if it were within reason (i.e. I’d be happy to give up vacations and eating out, cut the cable TV. I wouldn’t sell an organ or liquidate my retirement fund). But that’s me- and I grew up in Boston and so have known W women starting from childhood and they were all forces of nature. </p>
<p>But you are actually laying out a situation that isn’t quite as straightforward as “is it worth it”. I’m concerned that your D ended up with her back against the wall-- USAFA or W or Indiana-- three very different choices, but almost too different.</p>
<p>So before everyone starts grinding their teeth about what it’s costing and how much of a discount you’re getting or got or could have gotten… you need a sit down. What specifically about the Academy interested your D- why the cold feet now. If she wanted to study Aero/Astro, W is the wrong place to do that. If she was just looking for a free college diploma, then the Academy is clearly the wrong place for her (the environment, the long term military commitment, the lifestyle, the peer group- all wrong if she was just looking for the tuition break.)</p>
<p>So find out what is happening in your D’s brain before you get a hernia with all this heavy lifting. If you can’t afford W, you need to rethink her options with W off the table. If she won’t go to Indiana, you need to rethink her options with Indiana off the table.</p>
<p>There are many things that set people apart-- the USAFA is certainly one of them, but is by no means the only thing. And your D is obviously exceptional to have gotten an acceptance if that was truly her motivation.</p>
<p>And by the way- don’t let the “study abroad” business become a red herring during this decision. At some schools, it costs less to do a semester overseas than it would to stay in the US. And for some academic programs, it is just to hard to fit the courses in- so kids don’t end up going. And it’s not the make or break that many people like to think it is- fun for sure, but not the capstone of a four year college education. So take that off the table as a decision factor. surely your D knew that she’d be spending four years in the US at the Academy.</p>
<p>And in the spirit of helping- I don’t mean this critically- you need to ignore what other people have said or think about your D and how successful she’d be or have been. Her entire school, youth group, and community may think she belongs at the Academy. But in my mind, the ONLY reason to go, is out of a burning ambition to be a military officer, period full stop. It is NOT a prolonged leadership development training program. It is NOT a training ground for high potential young people looking to find themselves. It can be those things- but it is primarily a vehicle for producing highly trained military officers, and if your D doesn’t want to end up a military officer, it is a terrible place. Not because it’s evil- but giving up on a “normal” social life and other elements of the college experience unless you want the outcome, is a very bad deal.</p>
<p>I have a rising second-year at Wellesley and it is quite expensive but to us, very worth it. I think finishing with 30K in debt is easily worth it for W - especially since one poster reminded us that summer internships should just about cover that (and she should be doing those anyway).</p>
<p>I can tell you I am very impressed by the school with regard to her department - she gets a large volume of emails (passed on from her professors) from outside companies and individuals wanting people to join their start-ups - she just took her first class in her major and thus wasn’t qualified to take advantage of any opportunities this summer, but man, they are out there for W kids - and they are really great internships/jobs.</p>
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<p>I just don’t see that happening even for a Wellesley student, especially for one interested in fields like Foreign Affairs. If she manages to find a paid internship in related fields (not all that likely), it will probably only pay enough to cover her living expenses for the summer. Since it is unlikely that it will be near home… So I think that is not an assumption the OP should make.</p>
<p>I think blossom has the right idea about sitting down and reviewing the options, her points are all valid.</p>
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<p>A Wellesley education will provide an opportunity and “badge” (for lack of a better word) that will set her apart, just as much as the AFA would have. It’s just a different badge, which opens different doors.</p>
<p>But if she’s not dying to be an officer, I don’t think you can make her. Being a military officer is either in your blood or it’s not, IMO.</p>
<p>I know two people who are recent grads of the USAFA and I don’t think being a military officer was in their blood- but one wanted to fly-- has been interested in flight, rockets, space, racing home made airplanes since she was a kid, and the other was sort of a jock/geek type (varsity everything PLUS computers and engineering). So while both of them had similar type colleges as back-ups in case the Academy didn’t work out (Case, CMU, MIT, RPI, Embry- Riddle, Rochester, Purdue, Rose Hulman if I’m remembering their options accurately), it all made sense when you observed the kids and saw their lists. </p>
<p>I’m not sure how I would advise a young woman who wasn’t necessarily interested in the Academy for the obvious career track of Air Force. Not that JAG isn’t a fantastic career plan; and nothing wrong with the USAFA’s ability to train someone interested in Foreign Service/International Relations. All good. But from what I know of the Academy and the people who attend it, the academics have a definite “gear head” spin for lack of a better term-- and so I can appreciate this young woman’s cold feet if in the light of day she is taking a close look at the academics AND the military culture AND the peer group AND the commitment to the armed services after graduation AND yet more commitment if she goes to law school and then has to serve her JAG time. It’s a lot unless the value proposition of military service is compelling-- and we don’t yet know how this plays into the equation in this family.</p>
<p>But there dozens of colleges that would offer Merit Aid to this young woman if she’s talented enough to be accepted to both W and USAFA. So a bit of values clarification is in order. Frankly, the political leanings of W and its student body is quite irrelevant to the discussion now that we have more facts…</p>
<p>$30,000 in student debt is exactly $3,000 more than the maximum permitted with stafford/direct loans for a dependent student. This truly is a manageable amount for most students. Do not worry about this.</p>
<p>Your issue is that you thought your daughter was getting a free education and a salary for attending college. The contrast of now being expected to come up with the money for Wellesley is what has your head spinning. So sit down. Run the numbers with your spouse and daughter. Maybe Wellesley isn’t affordable for your family. Maybe it is.</p>
<p>But clearly your daughter has decided against the academy (nothing wrong with that, some kids decide at the very last minute just before they get sworn in on the day they arrive), so drop your dreams of the free education plus salary, and move on.</p>
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<p>Agreed…especially with USAFA due to the highly technical nature of the USAF. Also, a large proportion of those who aspire/are in USAFA are doing so for a better chance at a aviator training slot. </p>
<p>That’s not to say ROTC folks can’t get aviator training slots. Another cousin managed that successfully after NROTC and enjoyed a 7 year stint as a Naval aviator. However, it is harder…especially when such slots are being cut due to budget/reprioritization. </p>
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<p>With a few exceptions, USAFA and Wellesley are really different routes to the same coveted doors. Both have strong alum networks which will extend well-beyond one’s undergrad years.</p>
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<p>Most of that “salary” will be used towards books and other mandated associated expenses of being a SA cadet. After all that, there won’t be much…if anything left over.</p>
<p>Moreover, the SA education isn’t really free. The education is being paid for upon graduation by the graduate fulfilling a 5 year active duty 3 year reserve military commitment in service to the country through one of its military branches…in this case the USAF.</p>
<p>OP, if your D was interested in majoring in Foreign Affairs, the closest parallel at Wellesley is probably International Relations:</p>
<p>[IR/PS</a> | Wellesley College](<a href=“http://new.wellesley.edu/politicalscience/ir-ps]IR/PS”>http://new.wellesley.edu/politicalscience/ir-ps)</p>
<p>They recommend study abroad, but it is not going to be extra beyond the cost of a semester or year at Wellesley. As pointed out above, some programs are actually cheaper. My D is looking at going to Germany for a semester, and any option, including airfare, will be cheaper than a semester at Wellesley.</p>
<p>^We had the same experience for our kid doing IR and Arabic minor at Tufts.</p>
<p>Wellesley can definitely open doors. First, the alumni network is very strong. But if that isn’t enough - - it’s hard to explain how many Harvard and MIT students you also will meet along the way and how those students can become part of your network. Also, Wellesley definitely can provide a huge leg up into the top graduate schools - - Harvard B-School and Harvard Law. Wellesley is very well regarded in terms of its academics, and grad schools open their doors wide for Wellesley grads. </p>
<p>But, don’t take my word for that (as my experience is somewhat dated). Call the Career office and ask them for the statistics . . .</p>
<p>Personally, the door opening part is not the part I would worry about. I would worry about the financial implications for your family. I think $30k of debt for the four years is reasonable, BUT it depends on so many factors about your financial situation, and I think a careful analysis is warranted as college expenses are very high.</p>