<p>Yes, this does seem to be more about whether a career as an Air Force officer was her goal. The suitability of the USAFA depends on her answer to that question.</p>
<p>To what extent was your daughter’s enthusiasm for the AFA (or any of the academies) about wanting to be in the military versus wanting to spare your family financial stress? I hear a lot of delight about the full ride from the AFA in your posts, and I’m wondering if she felt somehow obligated to pursue that path knowing that money was a concern.</p>
<p>A student debt of $30,000 for Wellesley doesn’t sound too bad. (But it will probably be more of a post-grad drain than a teen realizes). I’m more concerned about the financial hardships for the parents that don’t have buy-in for the choice. </p>
<p>Yes - do at least consider a gap year. This is a kid that could get some serious merit scholarships at many colleges, just no the tippy top ones. Transfer students rarely qualify for scholarships.</p>
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<p>This is an extremely important consideration to keep in mind. Your D will get much better merit aid offers if she applies as a first-year. This is in the event that she does not want to attend Indiana or USAFA and you decide that as a family, you cannot afford Wellesley or similar (i.e. no merit, need-based aid only).</p>
<p>OP, sorry I missed this thread earlier. Both my wife and I attended USAFA, our DD’s just finished at a couple of private LACs. I would not trade my USAFA education for anything, but it’s not for everyone. As Thumper said way upthread, they both provide very different but excellent educations. It sounds like you really can afford W but resent having to pay that much. If that were the case, why did you let your D apply there? If you really cannot afford it then it’s IU (since I think USAFA summer BCT starts in two days).</p>
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<p>Depends on the student/family. A student who can live or even enjoy living a frugal lifestyle well below his/her income can easily defray this with a decent job($30k/year) within a few years. Even easier if one has side skills/hobbies which could be parlayed into moonlighting gigs such as playing music at a professional level, tutoring students, etc. I’ve known several college classmates who succeeded in doing this in NYC and Boston. </p>
<p>Granted, it does mean eating lots of rice and beans type meals, budgeting for groceries/stuff, and finding lots of free activities with like-minded friends…but it’s doable for students of that type. It will certainly test one’s creativity and resourcefulness. </p>
<p>However, not everyone has the ability/inclination to live like that so YMMV.</p>
<p>Here is the situation. Our daughter wanted to get in somewhere that set her apart. She went on her own (and with her Dad’s encouragement…a veteran, himself) and applied to all three academies…totally her idea. She received nominations to all, but only received an appointment to Air Force. She also applied to 12 other schools (we didn’t know where all she applied until after she had done so…she didn’t want to tell us). Almost all were stretch schools. At the end of the day, she was only in at IU and Air Force Academy. I could read it that she was not 100%. She had expected to have several choices and she didn’t. She was wait listed at three schools and one was Wellesley. She came off of the wait list at Wellesley.</p>
<p>I am upset that she did not apply to more second tier schools and had her ego tied up in this whole thing and now we get to pay for the situation that we didn’t create. </p>
<p>My whole question is this. There have been a lot of articles written about whether a high priced undergraduate education is worth it. Most people feel that no one cares where you went to undergraduate school…they only care about where you went to grad school.</p>
<p>Given this last minute situation and literal and financial “about face” is this Wellesley education for undergraduate school worth the money?</p>
<p>Is it worth it? You probably won’t know until later! It’s tough to argue that it’s “worth” spending $55,000+ a year versus a free education. If the sole measure is future employment…another tough argument.</p>
<p>However…if you want to engage in a discussion about your daughter’s development into adulthood in the next 4 years…that’s where a Wellesley education may be “worth” it. Your daughter will meet incredible young women with whom she is likely to engage in discussions that will frame the way she thinks about the world for the rest of her life. She will work with professors whose main job is your daughter’s lifelong intellectual development. She will likely meet people who will be her confidants and mentors for the rest of her life.</p>
<p>Could these same things happen at Flagship State U or at a military academy? Absolutely. Will the experience, and how it impacts her life, be different then at Wellesley? Probably.</p>
<p>Will employers and potential partners 10 to 20 years from now care about whether her resume says “Wellesley” or “IU” or “Air Force”. They might. Attending a military academy is a lifelong ticket to someone looking closer at your resume and being a conversation starter. Attending Wellesley may catch the eye of certain people down the road.</p>
<p>If these educational experiences contribute in no way to the person she will become (not just her resume) then it doesn’t really matter where she goes. But, most alumnae who attended Wellesley, as well as military academy alumni, will tell you that their experiences at those institutions – and the people they met – have contributed to the person they are today.</p>
<p>Who knows? She may or may not go to grad school. In international relations grad school is common, but generally only after spending a few years out in the field getting real world experience. A Wellesley degree* will *open doors.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine having no input on where my kid applied to college, but that’s water under the bridge now.</p>
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<p>I think this is true at many colleges. I didn’t attend an elite… But a top 40…it definitely contributed to the person I am today, college just does that to teens/young adults!</p>
<p>It is unfortunate that it has come down to this and you had little or no input into her applications. You don’t want her to start off her college career with possible resentments about the cost of Wellesley. She really may need a gap year .</p>
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<p>This depends on industry and to some extent, the perceived prestige of a given school in that industry. </p>
<p>In the field of foreign affairs and law, Wellesley’s alum network/ability to open doors is from what I’ve seen about equivalent to what I’ve seen/heard about HYPS grads. However, as with all things…students from such schools will still have to work for it…but the road is easier than if one went to a less prominent school. </p>
<p>I’ve read some of those articles and most seem to be discussing students who attended high-priced private schools outside of the academically elite levels occupied by USAFA or Wellesley with extremely high tuition and stingy FA/scholarship packages. </p>
<p>Incidentally, I turned down admission to one such school precisely because I didn’t think that school was worth it. I wouldn’t have felt the same if I somehow* succeeded in being admitted to USAFA if it charged tuition, Wellesley or one of its academic peers. </p>
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<li>Somehow as HS grades and rebellious issues with authority figures** as a 13-14 year old HS freshman-sophomore which would have precluded me from USAFA. HS Grades and the fact I’m male would have precluded me from Wellesley.<br></li>
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<p>** I.e. Being sent to the dean 4 times in first semester of HS for arguing with teachers.</p>
<p>“Is a high priced undergraduate education is worth it.” - Maybe, if it affordable. </p>
<p>We just bought a very nice car, and we like it a lot. It was the right decision for us. But the key is that we had enough savings to easily cover it. Had it required loans or severe savings impact, we would have picked a less expensive car. </p>
<p>Another analogy is eating out. It’s cheapest to eat home. But if you can afford it, tis nice to eat out… maybe even at a very nice restaurant.</p>
<p>For international relations, Wellesley is definitively worth it (considering the finacial aid package you got, which is really affordable). First it’s kind of the Harvard for girls. Second, it beats IU for that specitic major hands down - going to IU will NOT open doors in international relations (for this major to lead to work, you need to be close to places of international power) even if IU is a good school and would be a great choice for CS, etc. With her choice of major and career, Wellesley wouldn’t just be “nice”, it’d make the difference between working in the field of her choice* or not.</p>
<p>It sounds like the choice is between Wellesley and IU and the price difference is much less than the impact difference. Of course if she goes to IU she can thrive and do well, in fact I’m sure she will, but she will have to pick another major in order to make a living. If she goes to Wellesley she’ll have access to an amazing alumna network, the opportunity to practice her major at the highest level (especially with internships with important people, which she’ll need if she wants to continue in that career), and be in an environment dedicated 24/7 to ensuring she succeeds at the highest possible level. By almost any measure you may apply, Wellesley is a better school than IU. That does not make IU a bad school and it definitively doesn’t mean girls can coast and rest on their laurels at Wellesley in order to be successful, but the difference in general impact (size of classes & relation to professors including support and personal recommendations, resources, network and opportunities in international relations) is great.</p>
<p>Did she get into the Honors College at IU? Because another issue is that she may not be sufficiently challenged (considering her impressive admissions, I assume she is quite accomplished). </p>
<p>Getting off the wait list just means Wellesley calculated yield carefully, not that Wellesley is somehow “less” than the USAFA. (Because students who have the caliber to enroll at a school like Wellesley typically have a lot of choices, yield is difficult to predict, vs. in the SA where most students are self-selected.)</p>
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<li>one can argue that no one can predict anything but simply ask each college what percentage (undergrad) IR majors get internships in major international institutions/organizations, what percentage get jobs in that field or an entry-level job of their choice with that major, etc. Compare.
(I say percentages, not numbers, because 35 vs.8 may sound impressive until you realize there were 78 majors in one and 10 majors in the other.)</li>
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<p>I would hesitate to send my D to the military academy if she was not 100%. We can’t go back and change her application process and, frankly, maybe it was a learning experience that you backed off and let her make these (admittedly maybe not the wisest but that remains to be seen) steps on her own.
If something in her attitude does not change re: Air Force today, I suggest going to W. Let someone come off the wait list for the Air Force academy and move on. The potential for a bad fit seems higher at Air Force than at W. Also, not to diss the military in any way, shape, or form, but a young woman in the military may face more challenges than young men do. W is a more normal situation.
Kids ain’t cheap.
She sounds very accomplished and bright and sometimes the mature step is to realize that a mistake was made and to re-evauate choices. The Air Force education is not free – it comes with huge obligations. 30K pales. You don’t want to have to go pick her up at the Air Force academy in two weeks and then scramble to find a school for fall. </p>
<p>My D also went to her wait list school (at last minute) – we had already deposited elsewhere, etc., etc., but we changed paths and never looked back.</p>
<p>OP, it is a bit strange you didn’t discuss where your D was going to apply - If money was no object, okay, but clearly it is and should have been discussed up front. Yes, water under the bridge, but kinda stinks that if your D really wants to go to Wellesley that you guys could pull the rug out at this stage.</p>
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<p>You are in a situation of your own making… it is (sorry, but really…) crazy for a parent to allow a child to apply to college without at least knowing where the apps are going in this period of high college costs. “She didn’t want to tell us” would translate into “Just so you know, you’ll be finding your own way to pay for this” at our house. Why would you let a high school senior be completely on her own for a purchase that can cost as much as many people’s houses costs?</p>
<p>If you really don’t want to pay, then tell her it is IU for four years or a gap year with applications next year to school that offer merit aid. But really, I know you don’t want to hear this, but you and your H fell down on the job of monitoring this… In all the years I have been posting here, I don’t recall ever seeing a situation where kids refused to tell parents where they were applying with parent accepting that as the status quo. Occasionally a kid will sneak an application or two in at a dream school, then try to convince parents after acceptance. But this is something you knew she was doing, and you let it happen.</p>
<p>LaBechtel- you seem angry at your D. Is she the oldest of several siblings who are still in middle school/hs? Is she a Step?</p>
<p>I ask because you seem both hostile and curiously uninvested.</p>
<p>She hasn’t totaled the family car by being careless or drunk. She hasn’t been irresponsible and put you all in a dangerous or at least highly inconvenient situation. She hasn’t done any of the hundred things that parents here can tell you we’ve all seen our kids do which are truly upsetting and immature and have lasting repercussions (go read about the Dad who is agonizing as his son completes his sentence in county jail if you want perspective.)</p>
<p>Your D has decided that she doesn’t want to spend the next 9 years of her life in the Air Force (and the Academy is NOT free college but in uniform. It inculcates the culture and the way of life of the armed services from day one.) And since you weren’t a fan of the academy experience to begin with, surely you can understand that.</p>
<p>Then, her back up options (right now, W and Indiana) are not solid back ups in your mind (I because she doesn’t want to go there, W because you don’t want to pay for it.) So you need to find out what’s going on with her. If you truly had no input into her application list, now is not the time to get mad that her ego was tied up in the process (that was a discussion for last October.) I’m not quite sure how a kid gets access to enough cash to apply to 12 schools without her parents knowing but that’s water under the bridge (which is why I asked if this is a step D- with perhaps another parent in the mix).</p>
<p>At any rate, you can only move forward. If your D would have been an attractive candidate to the “we want you and we’ll pay for you to come here” type schools this past year (or at least a school with a strong merit component to the aid, which W does not have) she will still be a strong candidate in this upcoming year-- so she needs to figure out what she’s going to do in September (if it’s not I or W) in order to then apply to a more reasonable set of merit aid schools. If another visit to Indiana will make it a more exciting option for her than do that.</p>
<p>I think W is a superior option, but I don’t get to tell you how to spend your money. I will tell you though that comparing the cost of college to the value of your home, or harping on the free tuition at the Academy is not going to be a helpful exercise going forward. First, because it’s irrelevant. Second, because the Academy option is gone if she’s already told them no. And third- I get that you are angry at your D— but isn’t the goal here to get her educated and launched in life based on what she wants, not on what you or her dad or your community think she should want?</p>
<p>So get past this, and start to listen to what your D is telling you. If you can’t afford W, and if your fin aid appeal to them has come up dry, take it off the table and figure out a way to move ahead. It will be a very long summer otherwise.</p>
<p>I am sympathetic to the OP’s situation because she thought she knew what her daughter truly wanted and became invested in it. Her daughter achieved a goal that’s super hard to obtain, and seemingly everything is fantastic - - and then - suddenly - you are totally off that path. The path that seemed very promising and that even includes a guaranteed job. </p>
<p>My son applied to all these engineering programs and then chose a very expensive school to which he was not accepted to engineering. It’s a lesser example and wasn’t as dramatic. And it helped that the expensive school is ostensibly better/more competitive than the alternatives, BUT I have to admit, it created some anxiety for me (which I didn’t share). Anxiety that he was making the wrong decision. But we also had the advantage in that we could afford the very expensive school (though it is obviously more challenging to pay for for us).</p>
<p>So, OP, I do know a little bit of where you are coming from, and this is all fresh right now AND so late in the game (with coming off the waitlist). </p>
<p>But, I think it is important to try to get beyond the emotion of the situation and realize that your daughter CLEARLY is a go getter (which was not the case with my S) who is going to make things happen for herself regardless of what school she attends. And Wellesley - - well it’s truly an amazing choice that I think she will absolutely LOVE for four years (and honestly, four years is a significant time period so I wouldn’t totally dismiss the importance of being happy). </p>
<p>Good luck to you . . .I think as time goes by, you will feel more comfortable with your daughter’s choice, but for now, allow yourself to mourn the loss of a dream for a little while, but don’t totally let that mourning cloud your judgement about the best choice going forward.</p>
<p>You are in a situation of your own making… it is (sorry, but really…) crazy for a parent to allow a child to apply to college without at least knowing where the apps are going in this period of high college costs. </p>
<p>I totally agree with Intparent. My husband is the biggest pushover. Truly, if she had decided on a college on Mars, he would have found a way to pay for it. I did not agree, either, that our daughter ran ramshot and applied anywhere she wanted and didn’t consult with us at all. She is fiercely independent to a point where it is a problem…which is where I think AFA could have been good for her in that way.</p>
<p>Yes, I am angry we are in this position because it is not one we created. She is the one who went lickety split through the academy process and it took probably 100 hours of her time. I do agree that if she was not 100% in, she shouldn’t be going. Having said that, all kids become anxious prior to attending any school.</p>
<p>Re: IU - Yes, she did get into the Honors College. The scholarship she received paid for almost all of her tuition.</p>
<p>RE: her major. Undergrad at IU would have been business and then her plans are to go to law school. She would like to be in politics and lead in some capacity. My position on that is that her connections are in Indiana and here she has strong connections, as I am active in the GOP here.</p>
<p>I think any parent who was faced with such a drastic “about face” would have a hard time with this. We went from free to $240,000 education. Ouch. I just spoke to broker yesterday and it is going to be hard when it comes to selling the stock to pay for this, as we will pay HUGE capital gains when we do so…and right now in that college account, there is not the money to pay for that $240,000, minus their small financial offer.</p>
<p>I am working on accepting this decision, but it is hard. Daughter has a bit of an entitlement attitude and two good friends of hers are going to Middlebury (parents have unlimited resources) and another is going to Tulane (parents are selling off assets to pay for the education). I am sure the Wellesley education will be good, but it is a lot of money. My preference would have been for her to have tried AFA for a year or two and then transferred if it didn’t feel right (you can do that until you start your junior year). She would have gained the military training, directed followership education, etc and been a better person for doing that.</p>