<p>The Catholic high school thing is probably a non issue at Wellesley. However, the sibling issue that CTTC brought up and costs related to different colleges (one d’s college being much more expensive than the other’s)would be an issue that would need to be discussed in most families.</p>
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<p>You obviously knew she was applying to SOME expensive schools, as you took her to Gtown, Wake, Duke and ND which are likely similar sticker price to Wellesley (and may or may not be as good from an aid standpoint). (I don’t know how expensive UNC is like for an out of stater. </p>
<p>Would you have been willing to have paid for any of those schools? Because I’d put Gtown, Duke and ND in the same “highest quality” bucket as Wellesley. </p>
<p>It is odd to me that you would take her to visit those schools – which presumably means “we’re willing to pay for this level of school” – and then all of a sudden act as though you won’t pay for that level of school. Would you have paid for any of those others?</p>
<p>The daughter had a 1350 SAT (CR and M). A great score but low for many of these schools. There seem to have problems with all this from the beginning. The daughter’s list was extremely heavy with reach schools. She got into few of her schools because of that and now they are scrambling at the last minute. The whole thing is very unfortunate the way it has played out. Good luck to you and your daughter!</p>
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<p>The sibling issue is very dependent on families. </p>
<p>In most of the immediate families within my extended family, this wouldn’t have been much of an issue as sibling jealousy over a sibling earning their way into an academically more prominent school like USAFA or W would have been considered “poor form” and a sign of “sour grapes” over the complaining child’s own perceived shortcomings. </p>
<p>An older cousin got a lecture on this back when I was a wee child in the '80s visiting them because he was jealous over older sis getting into an academically more prominent school than he did*. </p>
<p>*Think equivalent to USAFA or W vs OOS at a school ranked far below IU. </p>
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<p>My HS GPA was in the bottom 25% of the admits to Oberlin. </p>
<p>Being in the low-end of the admitted pool will just mean OP’s D will need to anticipate working much harder than HS and prioritize academics more than most of her W classmates until she gets a better feel for them second semester/year. </p>
<p>I did that and luckily, found out I could relax substantially and still excel.</p>
<p>Yes, cobrat, that is why I said “most” families.</p>
<p>I was more referring to Cornell,Georgetown,etc. when I said 1350 would be on the low end because I am more familiar with them and these are the types of schools where she was not admitted . She did get off the waitlist at Wellesley. I really don’t know where a 1350 fits at Wellesley.</p>
<p>CTTC, please note what I actually said (added emphasis mine):</p>
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<p>In fact, I agree with PG that in many places, especially in the midwest, IU probably has MORE prestige than W.</p>
<p>You may be right that the D perceived the difference as being primarily one of prestige, but presumably now that she has visited she realizes that there is more going on than that. And it sounds like she wants to get out of Dodge. :)</p>
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<p>Of course it will! IU would be too.</p>
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<p>OP… it feels like your family went through this with a minimal (almost no) due diligence on school acceptance rates, financial aid, etc. I would almost never advise this, but honestly, if you can’t afford Wellesley… start over. A gap year would work out fine (we are from the midwest, and 2 kids in my D’s small high school class are taking gap years – one to travel and one to pursue a sports related career dream). We did offer our D2 a choice of a gap year, and she turned it down. But it is very common, at least in larger cities in the midwest. It feels like you are worrying about what people will think… but that may be part of what got you into this situation in the first place. Stop thinking about what ANYONE except you, your H, and your D need. So what if the neighbors want to know why she decided to take a year off before college? Earning money, seeing a bit of the world, those are legitimate reasons to step off the hamster wheel for a year.</p>
<p>Take the time to educate yourself on schools where your D has a higher chance of acceptance and getting merit aid. Visit, evaluate in her major, run the cost calculators. Don’t listen to the “no merit aid unless you are HYPS material” comments. They are untrue. You can knock over $20,000 a year off the price of an expensive school. It won’t be a top 20 school, but I think your D could achieve this at some schools ranked from 20 to 60 pretty easily. And $15,000 a year is even more achievable. She could also study and boost her SATs a bit, improving her chances more. My kids both did this (white females from the Midwest).</p>
<p>You are not stuck with only two choices (W and IU), even though the third path is unfamiliar to you. She could probably ask to be deferred from Wellesley for a year, although you would have to give up that slot if she does indeed decide to apply to other schools in the fall.</p>
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<p>I agree with sevmom that D’s list was extremely top heavy. She really had no matches and no safeties, other than IU (which was the only school that she was admitted to until she got called off of the wait list for Wellesley).</p>
<p>If there is a gap year, D should considering retaking test. Otherwise I do not think that a gap year and reapplying to schools where she can get a load of full rides is going to be a possibility. If you are looking for merit $ how much, in your family’s opinion an appreciable amount of merit $$.</p>
<p>I know that OP may feel that she is getting a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking (and perhaps you are), but I don’t understand how you took your daughter to see a number of schools including Wellesley (after an initial decision was made). </p>
<p>You paid out a couple of thousand of $$s between travel for visits, cost of 11 application (~60-75 s pop) filing the CSS profile, and SAT/ACT test and subject test and never, ever, not once was there a conversation of how much you were willing to pay/borrow on the off chance that she got accepted to one of these schools ?</p>
<p>Now it seems like you may believe that D should go to IU/Kelly basically because OP feels, why is Wellesley worth over $200K out of pocket, when older D went to school for a fraction of the cost, got an amazing internship that has the strong possibility of turning into full time employment after graduation.</p>
<p>Some of this may end up being moot and D will find herself with out any place to go. Did she accept a spot at IU? Did you at least pay a housing deposit so if this is the final decision, that she will have some place to stay?</p>
<p>“D#2, never really cared about going to Wellesley. She saw this as a way out of the Air Force Academy, because in her mind, IU was not an acceptable out. She has not said this but if Wellesley would not have come through with admission off of the wait list, she would have gone to AFA because of the prestige factor. She wasn’t even educated on what the Wellesley experience really is until she was wait listed and then her knowledge was limited.”</p>
<p>Okay, this is all nuts to me. I understand pride and wanting to seem like she pulled out of the AFA because she got into Wellesley, as opposed to changing her mind about the AFA…but putting you guys into massive debt or making you drain your assets for her ego is just plain wrong.</p>
<p>Forget even thinking about the USAFA, that is now irrelevant. If she actually wants to get into the AF in the future, there are other ways to do it. I had a ROTC scholarship, my husband went to the AFA, and we are in the same place in our careers now. I really enjoyed my college years at a mediocre university (he spent plenty of time being miserable), and the AFA didn’t open any doors for him that my mediocre university didn’t open for me. In fact, he never even tells anyone where he went to school unless they directly pin him down. He is not a ring knocker. Going to the AFA for the prestige factor is definitely not a reason that would be at the top of my list.</p>
<p>You now have to deal with the situation at hand, I say again, FORGET even thinking of what could have been at the AFA. Honestly, unless someone is really into it, they may very well decide they don’t need the BS, and quit anyways. If the AFA wasn’t in the mix, what would she have done at this point? Would she have gone to Wellesley if she got accepted right now, for that price? Law school costs a fortune. Why would she go to an unaffordable school now, and then plan on law school in the future?</p>
<p>I know how hard it is to tell your children no. I am terrible at it, and we are lucky that our kids usually want very little, they are low maintenance boys. I suggest this…use that non-refundable airline ticket voucher (assumption) that you booked for her to attend the AFA, for a ticket to visit Wellesley this summer. Make an agreement that she only attends Wellesley if she absolutely loves it. This has to be her dream school like no other, to cost the family that much. If she isn’t crazy about it, then she goes to IU, and can transfer elsewhere if she doesn’t like that. And if she goes to Wellesley, she will have to pay for some of it (that might change her mind, if she has to fund part of it).</p>
<p>She needs to understand that this is a huge financial sacrifice for the family. She can’t do this purely because it looks like a better excuse not to go to the USAFA, for her ego’s sake. She needs to be objective about this, and consider that maybe if she doesn’t bankrupt her family by going to a school that she’s barely familiar with so she can feel better about herself, perhaps you guys will be able to help her out somewhat when it comes to law school. I think you have a really good handle on what is going on, and I hope you can help your daughter see reality.</p>
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<p>Keep in mind that this is OP’s impression of her D and we’re not getting perspectives from the D or the H. </p>
<p>I hope I’m wrong, but some of OP’s earlier posts are a bit reminiscent of HS classmates’ parents who have the flipside to the “Ivy/elite school or bust mentality”…that “all colleges are the same” even if the academic level is geared mostly for the average or in the case of the local public college system back when I was in HS…remedial students. </p>
<p>And those parents wondered why my classmates ended up voting with their feet and transferring out to more academically rigorous institutions like Reed and Columbia within a year or two. </p>
<p>IMHO, both mentalities obscure the nuances and complexities of the US higher education landscape and fail to take into account that sometimes, the “less expensive option” is not always the best long-term value.</p>
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Loved every word of your post, busdriver, but the quoted part is what it’s really all about, isn’t it? </p>
<p>I would like to know about the seemingly disparate amount of money the OP spent on older D’s education compared to what W will cost. Yes, to some families this doesn’t matter. But is this the case for OP’s family? And I’ve wondered about law school, too. </p>
<p>I hope OP comes back and posts some more. I know that she is not happy with D manipulating the family into paying big bucks for Wellesley.</p>
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<p>WHy didn’t the parents communicate clearly with the D at the start of this process about what they could and could not afford? Why call the D ego-driven and manipulative when it sounds like the parents are the ones with the disagreements and communication problems?</p>
<p>There were application fees and trips involved. The family knew. Moral: Don’t let your kid apply to a place you won’t pay for. This family is not poverty stricken. Their EFC has to be in 50K range for Wellesley to only give 11K in aid. When the older sister is out, they will probably be full pay. </p>
<p>Now I understand that not every family that is full-pay on paper is full-pay in reality and there are many good reasons to not want to pay a quarter million dollars for an undergraduate degree. But let’s not impugn the D’s character or motives because she got off the waitlist for a reach school and it changed her mind. Jeez.</p>
<p>The D manipulated the parents? There was no guarantee she’d get into one of the service academies! They knew what her list was. As far as I can one parent was looking forward to her daughter paying for her education with required military service while the parents got off scot-free. And now they are whining that it’s going to cost sooo much money. The parents never asked the daughter to look for schools with merit scholarships or lower price tags except for the state flagship.</p>
<p>I like the way busdriver phrased it: “She can’t do this purely because it looks like a better excuse not to go to the USAFA, for her ego’s sake. She needs to be objective about this, and consider that maybe if she doesn’t bankrupt her family by going to a school that she’s barely familiar with so she can feel better about herself, perhaps you guys will be able to help her out somewhat when it comes to law school.”</p>
<p>and, from the OP: “D#2, never really cared about going to Wellesley. She saw this as a way out of the Air Force Academy, because in her mind, IU was not an acceptable out.”</p>
<p>This isn’t manipulation? Her parents will pay for W because that’s “an acceptable out” in the D’s eyes. I think D may not be manipulating the OP, but IMHO she is manipulating her father.</p>
<p>" But let’s not impugn the D’s character or motives because she got off the waitlist for a reach school and it changed her mind. Jeez"</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is impugning the daugher’s character or motives. She may not purposefully be trying to manipulate the parents, but either way, the parents may end up spending a huge amount of money for a school that she isn’t crazy about in the first place. How many of us would spend that kind of cash for a prestigious school that our child isn’t absolutely in love with?</p>
<p>I don’t know if it helps now to say what people should have done originally. People don’t always know what kind of FA they are going to get. Might help others reading this, but it’s not useful at this point for the OP. Didn’t the OP say that the D applied to colleges without allowing input from them, or am I thinking of another thread? She seems to be looking at this situation pretty clearly, though she may not convince the daughter and father of her opinion.</p>
<p>I don’t see any evidence that W will “bankrupt” the family. The OP has reservations about paying so much for college, which I fully understand. But “bankrupt”? That’s a little dramatic. This is a family with a high EFC and a brokerage account. I wouldn’t presume to tell people how to spend their money. But have the guts to be honest with your children about the difference between constraint and choice. If people don’t want to pay more than X for college, they should have been up front about it. I can relate to this family. The mother’s frustration and resentment are palpable but I think she and her husband are responsible for this debacle, not the daughter.</p>
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<p>When you are full-pay or close to it, you know it. Need-blind/meets-need schools like Wellesley have very accurate NPC calculators. Our family situation is similar to this family’s. I think they have just not accepted that with their income, they are going to be expected to pay a lot unless there is merit. So why let your kid apply to schools like Wellesley?</p>
<p>The parents had to know about the apps to file FAFSA/Profile.</p>
<p>You’re right, NJSue, bankrupt is an exaggeration. I agree with very much of your post. But it sounds to me like the D is a very accomplished, strong willed young woman. There may be little “allowing” her to do things, she may end up doing what she wishes, with support from Dad.</p>
<p>Sounds to me like the issue here is between the mother and the father, more so than between the daughter and the parents. The father filled out the FAFSA, right? And the father is willing to pay for Wellesley and apparently thinks they can afford it? But the mother thinks it’s too much to pay. I don’t recall her ever having said they can’t pay, she just thinks it costs too much, especially so in light of the fact that the daughter turned down a free ride (well, “free” except for the bit about a military service obligation) at the Air Force Academy and is turning down a cheaper public option in IU. Then the mother comes on CC and accuses the daughter of manipulating the father, as if he were just some passive pawn in this little drama. </p>
<p>No, the mother and the father were never on the same page concerning family finances and willingness to pay, and now the daughter is heading to Wellesley with the father’s blessing and the mother’s disapproval. That’s not a financial aid issue and it’s not a headstrong or manipulative child issue and it’s not an issue as to whether Wellesley produces a superior educational experience relative to IU. It’s an issue of a dysfunctional parental team. What’s needed here is family counseling, not advice about schools.</p>
<p>“and now the daughter is heading to Wellesley with the father’s blessing and the mother’s disapproval.”
This is what is sad to me in this. This should be a happy, exciting time and clearly is not for this family. Some degree of anxiety about this transition to college is normal but this is so clouded with all the negativity.</p>
<p>“What’s needed here is family counseling ,not advice about schools.”</p>
<p>Probably true.</p>