Wellesley vs UC Berkeley for Computer Science

College Search & Selection
1

Hi guys! I’m in a bit of a dilemma over these two amazing colleges. I’m a senior from California (so yes, I do get that $30k in-state tuition from Cal), and I got into Letters and Sciences Computer Science at Cal, so I need to make the 3.3 GPA requirement. Typically, my high school is a feeder school at Cal, with over 50 people getting in on average each year. For my future, I would like to go straight to industry and then advance to program manager (or something of the sort-- I want to have the CS background but work with people, not machines) or pursue patent law. I also want to double major in Computer Science and English, and I want to return to the Bay Area for jobs/internships.

Here is a list of pros and cons:

UC Berkeley Pros: prestige/name (important for hiring), close to home, substantially cheaper, big CS department with resources, good recruiting fair, good weather, liberal, English is apparently no. 1 too now, Silicon Valley, parents like it more, more classes in total that I can waive due to APs

Cons: too many people, no professor connection, 3.3 GPA cutoff-- what to do if I don’t make it?, might not graduate in time with double major, grade deflation, too much like high school (keep seeing the same people), researching opportunities seems a bit sparse, apply to get in clubs, (honestly my biggest worry is not having enough attention/level of stress. I think I can make the 3.3 GPA cutoff, but I’ll have to work really hard for it).

Wellesley Pros: new environment, smaller class sizes, professor interaction, liberal arts education, take classes at MIT/Olin, ambient/quaint atmosphere, I’ll stand out more, better facilities, waive intro CS classes, more likely to graduate in 4 years (?), not as stressful?

Cons: far from home, more expensive, not as well known CS department, commute time back and forth to MIT/Olin might not be worth it, not as many opportunities (?), not many CS clubs, hackathons and events seem sparse unless I travel to MIT, quiet at times, bad weather, (honestly my biggest worry is prestige/lack of resources)

Thanks everybody! I need to decide by May 1st and this is a really hard decision for me :frowning:

2

50 people from your high school is not many out of thousands of new frosh at Berkeley.

The 3.3 GPA (in the three prerequisite CS courses) is the main concern at Berkeley. If you do not get into the L&S CS major, you could take some upper division CS courses as out-of-major electives, but getting into them may be difficult because priority is given to L&S CS and EECS majors (and L&S CS has the 3.3 GPA entry requirement to limit the number of students to stay within instructional capacity, indicating that CS instructional capacity is currently filled to the limit).

How much does Wellesley cost, and how much debt would it mean?

Wellesley does offer a good selection of CS courses, but some of them appear to be offered less frequently (e.g. once every two years, so you may have only one chance to take such a course). See http://cs.wellesley.edu/~cs/Curriculum/dependencies.html .

If you want to take the patent exam from a non-ABET-accredited CS major, be sure to include the course work listed in https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/OED_GRB.pdf section III.B.iv (note the requirement of 8 semester hour units of physics or chemistry, in addition to 32 more semester hour units of science or engineering including computer science as described in III.B.x).

No specific major is needed for pre-law purposes (if that is why you want to have a second major in English).

3

You really can’t go wrong either way! Take my opinion with a grain of salt though, since I’m only a high school sophomore.

Berkeley is better known for CS, but the competition there will likely be more intense. There’s a GPA cutoff that you mentioned so you should keep that in mind. Do you think it’s worth the extra hard work at Berkeley for a boost in prestige? Do you like the ‘sink or swim’ attitude at Berkeley or the more liberal arts-y environment at Wellesley? You sure won’t run out of CS classes at both (going to MIT/Olin for some classes is a good idea IMO).

It all comes down to which environment you’ll thrive in, and which one is more affordable for you. Best of luck!

4

For cross registration, check on (a) commuting logistics, and (b) whether academic calendars are compatible. For (b), it would not be convenient if the cross registered class starts before you can move into the dorm, or if its final exam is after you are supposed to move out of the dorm.

5

@ucbalumnus Commuting logistics to MIT can be messy due to the 40 min one way commute. Academic calendars are compatible though! Also, I forgot to mention this, but money is not an issue for my family. I do know about the patent exam, but as of now, I think I’d rather be a program manager in the future. @VaporeonKid Thanks for your help!

6

Olin is two miles from Wellesley, and shuttles to and from Wellesley to Babson/Olin takes 5 minutes and run all day. Olin grads are highly sought after as program/project managers or team leads since they graduate with extensive project experience.

7

From your comments, it sounds like Wellesley would be your preference. You would get a great education there. Everything is world class. It is very prestigious in general, although a CS would degree would probably be more of a plus from Berkeley. We know a graduating senior who has had an amazing experience at Wellesley and has fully taken advantage of the many opportunities the school offers. She has many friends from Harvard/MIT that she’s met over the last four years. She is not in tech/science and has not done anything with Olin.

But how much of a financial hit would it be to attend Wellesley? I would be very cautious about asking your parents to pay too much or taking out significant loans to attend. That’s a conversation to have with your parents. Good luck!

8

I wouldn’t make a decision based on prestige. It doesn’t matter that much for computer science.

9

How difficult is it to get internships\jobs back in the Bay though? That is my main concern, and also the fact that I’d have to commute to Olin/MIT to take advantage of the resources there, which takes time. My parents want me to go to Cal because it’s world renown for CS, and my dad says the only reason I would go to Wellesley is to be less stressed out- if I’m going to Wellesley for MIT classes, why not just stay at Cal, since the class difficulties are similar too?

My parents said not to worry about money. It probably will take a toll, especially since my sister is going to college in 2 years, but they said they are willing and able to support wherever I go in the end.

10

We are Californians and my son eventually paired his choices down to Cal (EECS) or Olin. He chose Olin and, while there are some mild “cons”, and there was no bad choice, he made the best choice. Weather is not an issue - college is temporary. During his freshman year Massachusetts broke all-time snowfall records. Travel is expensive and inconvenient but it makes the holiday season more fulfilling. He’s taken a few classes at Babson and he’ll have his first class at Wellesley next fall. Some of his Olin classmates have warned him about grade deflation at Wellesley. But he is in an ideal higher-ed environment.

11

In most cases, I would say Wellesley would be the way to go. But as someone who works in tech (in roughly the field you want to get into), Cal is the better option for your situation. Better reputation in the industry, and being in the Bay Area means you can interview in person for internships in person during the spring. Cal has connections here that Wellesley, as great as it is, likely doesn’t. Good luck!

12

Not hard at all. I work in the tech industry - in Seattle, but still the same industry. The big SV and Seattle tech companies recruit from EVERYWHERE. We can’t rely only on PNW and Bay Area talent! Think of all the great CS schools that are not even on the West Coast! You won’t be disadvantaged by going to Wellesley, especially since you know up front what you want your career to be. Seek out summer internships with big tech companies on the West Coast. I daresay that if you intern at a big company like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, etc., you’ll be a shoo-in for a big West Coast tech company in the future. (And Boston has a lively little tech community as well, so you could do a one or two day a week internship there, too.)

Also, don’t underestimate Wellesley’s own computer science offerings. You’ll be majoring at Wellesley; you may take some supplemental coursework at Olin or MIT or Harvard or whatnot, but the vast majority of your coursework will be at Wellesley. But Wellesley has a good CS department, too! The faculty have their PhDs from some of the top CS departments (MIT, UCSD, Dartmouth, Rochester, Chicago, Tufts, UW); they conduct research in CS; they have a wide range of courses. The Wellesley CS department website has a list of the jobs that have been taken by Wellesley grads in the last few years and they include companies like Microsoft, Google, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, Apple, Lehman Brothers, and Credit Suisse - and that’s just in the last four years. They’ve also interned at the same companies, Booz Allen Hamilton, Redfin, Morgan Stanley, and done REUs across the country.

You don’t need a lot of CS clubs on campus; you can only belong to a few at a time. Hackathons can be fun but since they only happen a couple times a year, you can travel to MIT or Olin for that. Or maybe you can organize your own on Wellesley’s campus!

Berkeley is a huge draw, too. It’s obviously got a great CS department and excellent opportunities. Really, you can’t go wrong with whatever you choose, and getting Berkeley at in-state prices is a big deal too. Will you go into debt at all for Wellesley? Do you think you’d have a preference for small classes and a more intimate learning environment?

13

I do think I prefer an intimate learning environment-- I don’t think my parents will go into debt at all as they have saved up, but obviously it will impact finances. Especially since my sister is going to college in 2 years–hopefully there’ll be financial aid at that point.

I have this notion that if I go to Wellesley, I’ll have to actively travel around to recruiting fairs and/or seek out internships myself-- more of self-motivation (? is that the right term?) versus at Berkeley, there will be a large number of tech companies coming to the school so often that it is easy to find internship and job opportunities. Is this true in any way?

Cal’s in-state tuition is something for me to consider for sure. My mom also really wants me to go to Cal. I think I’d feel guilty if I went to Wellesley since tuition is so high, but I think I’d also regret it if I went to Cal because Wellesley is so unique.

14

The big question about Wellesley cost to ask your parents is, if you go to Wellesley, will the spending on your college limit your sister’s college choices?

15

FWIW, according to gradeinflation.com, in 2014 (last year measured), the average GPA at UC Berkeley was 3.29 (same as it had been in the 3 preceding years). So to meet the CS GPA requirement, your grades need to be just about average for Berkeley undergrads. You don’t sound like you’d be below average compared to other entering students. I mean, assuming you keep working hard. Don’t students from your “feeder” HS have a pretty good track record at UCB? Maybe you can talk about stress levels with a graduate from your HS who is now in their CS department.

16

@ucbalumnus I haven’t asked. I will tonight. That’s a really good point…

Also, I do want to go to industry right away in the Bay if possible, and then go to grad school while working (like a lot of companies have that support I think? Paying employees to get a higher education?). Would it be difficult to do so with a Wellesley education?

17

I’d go Cal for sure. Olin and MIT are not convenient even with buses/shuttles. Wellesley isn’t going to be known for CS and weather is cold. Can’t do better than Cal.

18

As someone who works in the software biz and lives in the Bay Area, I say go to whichever school you feel more comfortable at. Cal’s a good school for CS, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best school for everybody. If Wellesley feels like a better environment for learning, and you can afford it, go there.

19

My parents say even if I go to Wellesley, they can afford for my sister to go to any college too.

20

@drakonus What did you end up picking? My daughter had the same choice between Wellesley and Berkeley and chose Welles. Cant go wrong tho!