<p>
[quote]
I think kids have different destinies and this is reflected in differing experiences at the same school. They just sense where they're supposed to be.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think this is true about "college experience" over time, but not necessarily for a single overnight. In my view, a big risk of making a decision based on college visits is that a visit can leave the student with a very skewed impression (in either direction).</p>
<p>jollymon: first off, if your kid was an elite athlete, he sure wouldn't be looking at swarthmore. second, we all have 4.0 gpa's (and higher in some cases) and everyone here has top sat scores, probably a lot higher than your jock kid in fact. i also didn't say that a 17 year old who doesn't drink should join a monastery although it does sound like you could use to toss back a good stiff one yourself.</p>
<p>Just to demonstrate my point in post #21 - if a prospective student was hosted by Duhvinci, I am sure he would get a very distorted impression of Swarthmore...</p>
<p>nngmm: I guess my point was even more mystical. That it's because their destiny is different that students get negative or positive experiences so they can be gently guided to their destinies.</p>
<p>My D insisted that she hated Northampton. I don't even see how see this possible, but she did. It was because she didn't want to go to Smith that her perception of the town was changed. Now that she is graduating from Barnard she insists that she loves Northampton, just not as much as NYC.</p>
<p>I know this post is a bit off topic. Sorry. Just wanted to clarify what I meant and also to acknowledge that students often have erroneous ideas about colleges but these ideas are not always meant to be corrected.</p>
<p>jollymon: I think that if your son has done as much research as he can about Swarthmore, talked to students who go there, visited the school for a day or two, had an interview--in other words, lerned as much about Swarthmore as he possibly can--and if he likes it, there is no reason not to apply. It would help if he were more specific about what he means by a "party fest." My definition of a party school might not be the same as yours or Duhvinci's. People here definitely party and drink on Thursdays (Pub Nite) and late at night on the weekends, and your son may very well see his friends drinking and being drunk, but still, a lot of people here don't drink. My point is this: Make sure your son knows that people at Swarthmore do drink, and it's not a small proportion either. Your son should be comfortable with that fact before he goes off to college.</p>
<p>I certainly don't think that Swarthmore is a "party fest," however, in my definition of "party fest." Academics definitely comes first here, then social life. Many people here see Swarthmore as a work hard, play hard type school.</p>
<p>Your son may want to research basketball at Swarthmore a bit more, though. Sports are not a big thing here.</p>
<p>I guess I got sucked into a discussion with what is obviously a very negative person and that is my mistake. I wanted to make the point that of all the colleges S2 visited, there was the least amount of pressure to drink at Swarthmore. He also had one of the best visits at Swarthmore. I think my definition of party fest is a 24 hour party atmosphere where little studying takes place and the thirst for beer is greater than the thirst for knowledge. That is clearly not the case at Swarthmore, at least not the impression S2 and I got. Anyways, I will try to avoid a pi..ing match with someone who is obviously only looking to add something negative to a discussion. I try to be a positive person on here and I think Swarthmore is a tremendous college.</p>
<p>Ok, I put down my game controller and now you have my full attention. Let's analyze what we have here...swat style. jollymon says s2 loves swat because it is one of the only overnights not to offer his kid alchohol (see post 12.) then in post 15, jollymon needs to clarify that he didn't think s2 was offered any drinks while staying over. this begs the question then of when s2 was offered a drink by these other institutions. was it at the interview that he was offered alchohol? maybe during the tour of the facilities? was it during the time s2 audited a class at one of these other places? i'm not trying to be negative, i was just wondering when colleges other than swat started substituting beer bottles for juice boxes. next up, jollymon's definition of a party school is waaay out there. the only educational institution that fits his description is playboy mansion university. believe me, we could all learn something there. lastly, i'm also a postitive person...positive that it's uncool to sneak into a post that s2 has a 4.0 and high sat scores (which i pointed out, would make him no different than about 330 of each entering class) and is an "elite" athlete (a truly elite athlete looking into swarthmore? now his judgement does need to be questioned.) look, the truth of the matter is that there is plenty of drinking here. there is a time and a place for it. i don't recall seeing or hearing of anyone drinking in the dorms (except during a planned dorm or hall party.) Not all the wonderful activites on campus revolve around alchohol (only the really fun ones.) so let's not get all pious and kumbaya'd about how dry and different swat is. it's not, but jollymon is correct, swarthmore is a tremendous college, even with alchohol on campus.</p>
<p>Hey guys. OP here. </p>
<p>Although the digression to alcohol was helpful in its own way (no sarcasm there), I'm still interested to hear more about my original question (Wesleyan v. Swarthmore). I ended up not visiting last Tuesday because I was just diagnosed for the second time with lyme disease. Ahhh, I've had it now for three and a half months.... Grr.</p>
<p>But anyway. I'd love to hear more comments! Oh, and thanks to everyone who posted in the beginning.</p>
<p>Hey my friend has a similar predicament - she thought that she wanted to apply ED to Vassar and then visited Wesleyan and is now really confused about what it is she wants to do - i think that if you have any doubts wait - you don't want to regret the decision you make and you don't want to wonder what if</p>
<p>Back to the original question. If you have visited Swarthmore and were sold on it for ED1 I doubt a visit to Wesleyan will change your mind. </p>
<p>Both provide great academic opportunities with, based on visting both multiple times with my D, serious students. I do believe that Swarthmore's level of intensity in that regard is generally accepted to be higher but you have to consider Wesleyan's greater size before making that conclusion. If you dropped off 1,400 of the least intense, but still highly qualified, students from Wes I suspect you could duplicate Swarthmore's environment. Wesleyan's greater size may result in a wider variety of course offerings in some areas.</p>
<p>Wesleyan is in a somewhat decayed, though I believe safe, area that does not have anywhere the same feel as Swarthmore's upscale suburban location. Middletown does have more things to do off campus in town and that may of interest to you. Personally I like the quirky feel of the main street and thought that Wes's campus had more of an "urban" like feel than Swarthmore's more leafy enclosed campus.</p>
<p>If you found Swarthmore in too quiet a location then Middletown may appeal. I hasten to point to point out that Swarthmore gives you easy acess to Philadelphia and, in theory if you want, courses at Penn, Haverford, and Bryn Mawr. There is also a shopping mall and commercial strip within walking distance.</p>
<p>Over all those visits I must say that I didn't ever love Wesleyan as much as I thought I would from my research. Swarthmore did impress but remember you are the one going not me/us.</p>
<p>I think, decaying would be an inaccurate way to describe Middletown. Sure, it's a blue-collar town; it doesn't have a Starbucks. But, it does have a thriving downtown. I was there ten days ago, and on a Main Street nearly a mile long, I counted no more than six or seven empty storefronts (stores actually facing the street -- not a mall), and they were mostly on the same block that included O'Rourkes, a nationally recognized diner where the food and service are superb. The rest contained more restaurants, pubs, some big, stone churches, coffee shops, a hardware store, a bicycle shop, a Cohen Fashion Optical, a natural food store, furniture and clothing boutiques and a pretty good hotel.</p>
<p>During the day, you will see kids from the public housing project riding their bikes and senior citizens sitting on benches outside several centers. They all seem well-kept and clean. They share the sidewalks with jogging Wesleyan students.</p>
<p>At night, the scene turns decidedly younger, and, as ctParent said, more urban-like. People walk in groups, if they have to travel far from campus. And, there is a jitney service that will bring people to and from the bars and house parties that enliven the surrounding neighborhoods from Wednesday through Saturday. Altercations have been known to occur.</p>
<p>All of which is to say, that yes, Middletown's Main Street is very different from Pennsylvania's Mainline, but, there are those of us who like it.</p>
<p>johnweley's post is very good and I didn't mean to slight Wes or Middletown in any way just to point out the differences from the area around Swarthmore. Each of us will have our own different and perfectly valid preferences on where to study.</p>
<p>I also hasten to agree that decaying is an inaccurate adjective to apply to Middletown which is why I particularly but perhaps carelessly said decayed. I should have added recovering/recovered. I very much agree that there is an interesting energy to Middletown that I had not known about before visiting.</p>
<p>I've really enjoyed reading this thread, thanks.</p>
<p>I am considering applying ED to Wesleyan, but I am worried about the (seemingly) large percentage of people that get drunk/stoned every weekend. I am not planning on being a party person (alcohol or no alcohol) during college, but I definitely am attracted to Wesleyan's relaxed academic atmosphere. (I'm a pretty intense/easily-stressed person myself and have had a stressful highschool experience, so I'd really like college to be a time when I can sit back and <em>enjoy</em> what I'm learning and savor each class. I have had good friends and relatives at Swarthmore who, although they were truly brilliant people, found the academic climate too intense and stressful and dropped out. I don't want to be miserable in college).</p>
<p>However, I find myself tempted by the low numbers on "uni go.com" that Swat has for alcohol, in comparison to Wesleyan (actually, just one point lower). Is there a huge amount of difference in the alcohol/drug scene? (Please say no).</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I am also tempted by the greener, quieter campus and surroundings at Swat in comparison to Wes... But I think I would be miserable with the heavy workload at Swat. (I am applying to Wellesley as a kind of middle ground school, I'm hoping. Serious students and atmosphere plus beautiful campus, but not as scary academically as Swarthmore). (I'm also applying to Haverford which I hear is also less intense academically as Swat, but I hear they also drink a lot and the arts scene, which I'd love to be a part of, isn't so great at Haverford).</p>
<p>Basically, I want
-Serious, interesting, sarcastic, kind, open, slightly "quirky" (but not too quirky) students
-Relaxed academic climate
-Good performing arts (just for extracurriculars)
-Political activism (also extracurricular)
-Nice, green campus
-Community feeling</p>
<p>Advice?? I would love you forever.
(ie Is Wes that different from Swat in terms of social scene? I know there are little nuances you can nit-pick on, but overall, are the kids at Wes much bigger party people than the ones at Swat?) (Is there a school that is better for me than Wes? Do you think I'd prefer Wellesley, Vassar, Oberlin, Haverford, or some other place?)</p>
<p>I think that although people may be often stressed because of all the work they have to do, they wouldn't call themselves miserable and they really enjoy it. I don't know about Wesleyan, so I can't make any comparisons, but I will say that people here certainly drink--a lot of my friends drink, but I don't. I also have many friends who don't drink. Anyway, you won't really be pressured to drink here--one of my friends sometimes asks if I'd like to have a few drinks with him and I tell him that I don't drink and he's okay with that. People aren't going to ostracize you if you don't drink. I find it quite wonderful that people here can do whatever they want and not really be judged much by it. </p>
<p>I think that Swarthmore has a reputation for being hard (and it is), and very demanding, but I wouldn't let it scare you. On the other hand, it's not really a college where you "sit back and enjoy." There's a lot of reading. Not much learning comes from being told everything--I think that to really learn, you should be working hard. People here certainly enjoy learning, though, but they seem to acknowledge that the benefit of learning comes in large part from their own hard work.</p>
<p>It seems like Swarthmore has everything you want except a relaxed academic climate. I really would not call Swarthmore relaxed, but you probably won't be working 24-7. </p>
<p>Anecdote: Last Saturday my RA came back from a party, drunk, without his shoes on. And I mean, he was really drunk. It was really late and he raced some guy to a tree without his shoes on and left his shoes there and walked back to the dorm barefoot and the first thing he asked when he came back was, "Did you do any organic chemistry work?"</p>
<p>Okay, time to read about Nazism.</p>
<p>Unfortunately I think the relaxed academic climate is kind of the most important factor there, just because it can cancel out any of the others. Sorry, I'm NOT applying to Swat, I was just asking for schools similar to it in those ways, and whether Wesleyan would be included in that list.</p>
<p>I honestly don't think that it's the work that stresses people out, at all. I think it's committing to the work, plus clubs, plus campus jobs, plus committees, plus musical groups, plus taking 3 hours to eat dinner at Sharples, plus blablabla...and juggling that is hard anywhere, but it depends on what you want to commit yourself to. I really think that most Swatties, if we just sat down and did solely our work every night and didn't get involved in anything else, would be very chill, bored people with a lot of spare time to do nothing with - but I don't know many bored people because very few people choose to be bored. You still get to enjoy your learning and savor each class, but people's priorities in the other departments vary. If you don't want to be a part of a community and don't want to involve yourself in the people around you, maybe Swat's not for you anyway, since it's all about collaboration and people working together inside the classroom AND out to make it a better place. I find it incredibly hard to believe that people feel stressed just from the workload - I can't say that at all in my experiences here, and can't think of one of my friends for whom that would ring true. We all have heavy workweeks, but they seem heavy because we've committed our time to so many other things. And maybe that's the case more at Swat than other places because the culture is so community-centered (not that you'd get ostracized or something if you didn't get involved), but you'd have to think about those commitments anywhere.</p>
<p>I have many, many contacts at Swarthmore and I am aware of how the workload compares to the workload at other places. Saying that it is really the people and how ambitious they are in their commitments that makes everyone exhausted was a very clever way of insulting me, but not what I was looking for, once again. Tell yourself whatever you need to-- I'm glad you're happy there.
Can anyone answer my question??</p>
<p>Flying_pig—you might know some people, but really ... don't be some dismissive. "Tell yourself whatever you need to"—really? You are making me eager to help you.</p>
<p>I'm an Honors senior at Swarthmore, and if I weren't involved in all my clubs, I'd have WAY more time than I'd know what do with. And, while my GPA isn't 4.0, isn't bad either. Forgetmenots' comment that the reason people are stressed out is, generally, non-academic commitments is totally spot on.</p>
<p>You might have friends. THEY might be stressed. But that doesn't mean there aren't other people with very different experiences. I've got friends at small liberal arts schools up and down the east coast ... and they ALL are stressed out at this point in their senior years.</p>
<p>If you want advice on schools that aren't Swarthmore, and aren't all that similar to Swarthmore, the Swarthmore board probably isn't the best place to ask.</p>
<p>Flying_pigyou might know some people, but really ... don't be some dismissive. "Tell yourself whatever you need to"really? You are making me eager to help you.</p>
<p>I'm an Honors senior at Swarthmore, and if I weren't involved in all my clubs, I'd have WAY more time than I'd know what do with. And, while my GPA isn't 4.0, isn't bad either. Forgetmenots' comment that the reason people are stressed out is, generally, non-academic commitments is totally spot on.</p>
<p>You might have friends. THEY might be stressed. But that doesn't mean there aren't other people with very different experiences. I've got friends at small liberal arts schools up and down the east coast ... and they ALL are stressed out at this point in their senior years.</p>
<p>If you want advice on schools that aren't Swarthmore, and aren't all that similar to Swarthmore, the Swarthmore board probably isn't the best place to ask.</p>
<p>My uncle, my best friend's brother, and two of my close friends who are slightly older than I am all go to or have gone to Swarthmore.
Again, I wasn't asking how the workload is at Swat, because I feel that I already have a good understanding of that. I'm not being dismissive, I just already know all I need to know about that, yet you all have been very eager to discuss the workload and not so eager to discuss my question.
What I <em>was</em> asking for was schools that are similar to Swarthmore in the ways that I listed. Your comment that these schools actually aren't all that similar to Swarthmore is the only one you've made so far that has been at all related to what I asked.
I don't really mind if I'm not making you eager to help me. You haven't exactly made a good impression on me either, but I'm keeping this thread open so that others can respond.</p>