<p>I agree with dchow; don't equate a heavy workload with being competitive. In that Reed students don't see their grades, they don't compete for them, but the workload is indeed heavy. The focus is on satisfying the professor that the material is being learned and that the student is developing satisfactorily.</p>
<p>These schools won't admit you if you haven't already demonstrated that you can handle the load.</p>
<p>I have already given my list of colleges to my letter-recommendation-writers (and amended it once, saying "I promise that's the last time I'll edit it).
I know, I know, they won't mind if I edit it again and it's not worth risking a perfect college experience for.</p>
<p>I am prepared to work hard in college, of course, and I'm excited about it. But Swarthmore, like I said, seems to have a particularly high workload/stress level (there's even a sticky about it on CC-- it's not just my own weird perception). My tourguide at Haverford, when he was talking about taking classes at Bryn Mawr and Swat, talked about the differences in academic atmosphere among the colleges and mentioned that Swarthmore is more competitive as well. And again, I have friends/relatives that echo this (upon graduating last year, one posted a note on Facebook describing how Swathmore eats your soul and he's glad to have escaped alive and good luck to all the people still there!)</p>
<p>At Wesleyan, people were VERY involved with ECs and seemed to be really enjoying and savoring every activity they did, not just trucking through mounds of work. Many of the things I am interested in (being politically active, choral/a'cappella groups, religious services) are extra-curricular, so this will be an important part of my college experience, and simple eating, going to class, and working wouldn't be as fulfilling for me.</p>
<p>I haven't "demonstrated that I can't handle the load". I have made straight A's so far and have taken many AP and honors classes (I may be valedictorian). It has all just been harder on me emotionally than it has been on my peers. While I am very passionate about what I learn and want very much to continue to explore the things that interest me, I'd prefer to do so in a less intense environment, if possible. I am capable of doing it in a stressful one, but I'd prefer not to.</p>
<p>[Note: After my previous post, everyone is saying "Wow, you really shouldn't be going to college at all". A complete 180 from "Swarthmore isn't that bad, I'm sure you could handle it". I guess I went too far in my description-- I was trying to make a point that I wouldn't enjoy myself at Swat but I went too far . Please, everyone, happy medium].</p>
<p>The last thing any college wants is a student that does not want to be there. You are right - if you don't want to be at Swarthmore, don't apply. I hope you find your happy place wherever you end up going.</p>
<p>Hahah that makes it sound so simple :)</p>
<p>Thanks!!</p>
<p>FWIW, DChow08, - the community piece got started around post #36 by forgetmenots. It struck me as quite profound, actually. That's why I ran with it.
forgetmenots said:
[quote]
I find it incredibly hard to believe that people feel stressed just from the workload - I can't say that at all in my experiences here, and can't think of one of my friends for whom that would ring true. We all have heavy workweeks, but they seem heavy because we've committed our time to so many other things. And maybe that's the case more at Swat than other places because the culture is so community-centered (not that you'd get ostracized or something if you didn't get involved), but you'd have to think about those commitments anywhere.[endofquote]</p>
<p>I see, johnwesley, but I don't think that forgetmenots was trying to suggest that being in a small community meant more pressure to do things if you don't have time to, hence more pressure. Being in a small community might make you more willing to be involved in extracurriculars, because so many people are, but it won't pressure you to do them if you don't have the time to.</p>
<p>flying_pig, just for the record, I think that Swarthmore student was being sarcastic, to be honest. I also honestly don't think Swarthmore is competitive at all (how can it be, if you don't even know others' grades, let alone your own!). </p>
<p>I mean, when you said: "At Wesleyan, people were VERY involved with ECs and seemed to be really enjoying and savoring every activity they did, not just trucking through mounds of work. Many of the things I am interested in (being politically active, choral/a'cappella groups, religious services) are extra-curricular, so this will be an important part of my college experience, and simple eating, going to class, and working wouldn't be as fulfilling for me."</p>
<p>That's just like Swarthmore! Do you really think that Swarthmore is just simply eating, going to class, and working?</p>
<p>So I'm a little frustrated and disappointed that you chose not to apply to Swarthmore, because it seems like you're basing your decision on some people's exaggerations--(at Wesleyan people actually are involved, at Swarthmore they just work all the time; Swarthmore 'eats your soul';)--I think it would be better if you at least applied here, and better if you visited, to get a sense of what Swarthmore is actually like.</p>
<p>flying_pig319,
First of all, if you base any of your opinion on that stupid "sticky" at the top of the page, all I have to say is :rolleyes: There are a number of us who have asked that it be removed after the thread was closed, but our pleas have fallen upon deaf ears. I decided to respond to your post because you mentioned a number of activities which my son was involved in while a student at Swat. He is a recent graduate and was the musical director of an a cappella group, President of one of the religious groups, and involved in other EC's (although those were his two biggest ones.) Academically, he was in the Honors Program and graduated with High Honors. He slept and he had a social life.
Swarthmore did not "eat his soul." And I would expect nothing less of a Haverford tour guide than to say that Swat was "more competitive." ;)</p>
<p>People at Swat don't love those at Haverford, I take it?
Can you explain the conflict further? (I know a fair deal about Haverford, so it may help me understand Swarthmore).</p>
<p>I wouldn't call it a conflict between the schools. There is a long standing rivalry between Haverford and Swarthmore, although it is basically a Friendly rivalry. They compete for the Hood Trophy, awarded annually to the school which wins more athletic contests between the two schools. </p>
<p>My dad, a Haverford alum, used to sing a song which went like this:</p>
<p>"Oh Haverford was Haverford, when Swarthmore was a pup. And Haverford will be Haverford, when Swarthmore's days are up..."</p>
<p>This, based on the fact that Haverford was founded in 1833, while Swarthmore is a relative newcomer being founded in 1864.</p>
<p>There are many more similarities between Haverford and Swarthmore than there are differences. But, possibly based on USNWR rankings and things like average SAT scores, some Swarthmore students may feel that Swarthmore is academically superior to Haverford. To the extent that feeling is communicated, some Haverford students may feel put down. In my view both are terrific schools, although they have somewhat different characters.</p>
<p>On the original question, I think you would find much more information about the experience, environment, campus culture etc. at Wesleyan on the Wesleyan board. First hand knowledge about Wesleyan among the Swarthmore students, parents and alums who frequent the Swarthmore board is probably quite limited. You will get a lot of informed and sometime conflicting views about Swarthmore on this board, but I think direct comparisons between Swarthmore and Wesleyan will be of limited usefulness, as very few posters will have direct and current knowledge of both schools.</p>
<p>I am getting lots of helpful info from people on the Wesleyan board.</p>
<p>Hahah that's a funny cheer. I'm glad they're pretty similar, aside from Swat having slightly higher academic standing. What are the different characters you mentioned?</p>
<p>flying_pig319, I deliberately put a ;) after my last statement, which was made with tongue planted firmly in cheek! There's just a good-natured rivalry, as far as I know. One of my younger sons was at a college fair last weekend and was speaking with the Haverford admissions rep. When my son mentioned that his older brother was a Swat grad, the Haverford rep immediately said, "Boooo!" It was a joke, of course. They are both great schools.</p>
<p>Oh yeah I'm sure it's totally friendly. I was just wondering what it was based on... it sounds like not much.
Hahah </p>
<p>I have heard that Haverford is more athletic while Swat is more artsy/dramatic... Do you think this is true? To what extent?</p>
<p>I don't know about Haverford, but I know that sports are definitely not a big thing at Swarthmore. I think a good number of people at Swat are into dance and theater, but it's not particularly prominent.</p>
<p>They aren't necessarily a "big thing" in terms of dominating the culture, but Swarthmore athletics are strong. The Centennial Conference, in which Swat competes, is certainly not the NESCAC nor the Pioneer League, but there are Swat teams which are competitive with NESCAC and Pioneer teams.
Those who like to say that nobody pays attention to sports at Swat should check out the attendance figures for men's and women's soccer games (both of which were ECAC winners last year), but also for, say, women's lax (not at the top of the league at all), where the average attendance was just short of 100/game, or men's lax (also not at the top), with average attendance over 200/game.
[quote]
Swarthmore teams have been competing since the 1870s, challenging local, regional, and
national programs in a variety of sports. In that time, teams have garnered over
260 All-America honors and many additional Academic All-America honors, 10
former Swarthmore athletes have been inducted into national Halls of Fame and
the Garnet have won six national championships (four in men’s tennis, two in
men’s lacrosse).
[/quote]
One of those All-Americans is a junior now; one just graduated.
And
[quote]
In 2007-08, over 70
Swarthmore athletes were represented on the Centennial Conference Academic
Honor Roll, nine athletes were selected for the Philadelphia Inquirer Academic All-
Area teams, and one athlete was named ESPN the Magazine Academic All-
America.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>"Sports do not build character. They reveal it."</p>
<p>Heywood Hale Broun, Swarthmore '40
quoted in James Michener (Swarthmore '29)'s SPORTS IN AMERICA</p>
<p>Athletics</a> News Blog Archive No 17 Swarthmore Caps Best Regular Season With Win Over Fords</p>
<p>An 800+ crowd - that's over half the campus. Or half the campus plus some loyal Fords. :D</p>
<p>To both Flying_Pig and the OP:</p>
<p>I feel that both of you seem to be taking the choice between colleges too seriously, or at least are approaching the question with too much anxiety. I know that where you are in life, everyone seems to be telling you that you have to pick the one right college for you, that everyone asks you all the time "where are you going to college?" The truth is, you will probably be content at a number of different colleges. At those same colleges, however, you will be unhappy some of the time. There is no one magical college choice that will make the next four years of your life perfect. Furthermore, each college is composed of a huge network of different people, classes, and organizations; there is no one way of defining any of these colleges, and each person who goes will have a different experience.</p>
<p>So, to the question at hand:
The differences between Swat and Wesleyan are really pretty much what people have already said: Wesleyan is larger, slightly more laid-back, and (people have told me) more hippy-liberal. Swat is more oriented towards academia. Arts at Swat are doing great. I know people at Wesleyan who enjoyed the arts program there, particularly that theater and musical theater programs. People at both colleges drink and party; I'm sure that at both you can find many many people who do not drink and instead play board games/go to concerts(classical, rock, pop)/sit around and chat/do your favorite social activity of choice which you will introduce to the community when you arrive.</p>
<p>My advice:
1) Don't worry too much about going to Swat or Wesleyan or wherever else.
2) Get off the internet if it stresses you out. People are often more unpleasant on the internet than in real life (see the following xkcd: xkcd</a> - A Webcomic - Internet Argument).
3) Have a prepared answer for when people ask you about where you're going to college. It doesn't have to actually represent you. It just has to satisfy the requirements of small talk.</p>
<p>I'm in a similar situation as flying_pig. I've worked hard throughout highschool, but feel the workload affects me more than my peers for some reason. But I'm still going to apply to Swarthmore because I like the fact that it's a place where students actually want to learn - that plus everything else about it. What I'm worried about is that after 4 years (highschool) of being surrounded by apathetic students, I might not be able to handle an environment that requires one to be academically stimulated. Maybe this sounds confusing but, I love learning I really do. I find that I'm usually interested in random, unconnected things - which is great for Swarthmore. I guess you could say the apathy of my classmates has rubbed off to much on me. But not to the point that I'm unaware or accept the slight change. It's like, I have trouble motivating myself when no one else is motivates, which sounds dumb I know. I'm just worried that I won't be able to revert back to being motivated in my studies because I'm not used to an environment that requires a student be totally motivated. Would I still be okay at a school like Swarthmore?</p>
<p>Flying_pig: What schools did you finally decide on that were like Swarthmore but not as academically rigorous?</p>
<p>Brandnewstate: I definitely think all the schools I chose were very rigorous and intellectually stimulating, but maybe not as overwhelming/scary in sheer workload.
Wesleyan, Haverford, Vassar, and maybe Wellesley (I don't know if you're a girl)(Also I have heard that Wellesley does have a huge workload if you're preprofessional or doing engineering/economics or something) all fit what I'm looking for :)</p>
<p>Elenlin: Thanks. I've been hearing this from my parents a lot recently too. You're right, I'm sure I am taking it too seriously. College choice doesn't need to be a moral/personal reflection of who I am, it's just a school. There is no one perfect, "magical" fit, there are just pros and cons to each choice.
I just need to recite this mantra to myself ;)</p>
<p>brandnewstate, I think you'll be perfectly fine here. Swarthmore gives you pass/fail for first semester freshman year to help you adjust, so it's not completely like the sink or swim feeling that you might be worried you'll get. I think most people here adjust in some way, in varying degrees, to the work and the new environment in general. I wouldn't worry about it so much until you see whether you get in or not, though.</p>
<p>HarrietMWelsch: I dunno--one of my friends who's on the soccer team said that there were maybe 500 people, which is abnormally large. Also many people who watch are from the local neighborhood, and it's quite possible that there wasn't much going on that day so people just went to see the soccer game. But I've been to soccer games before and there really are not that many people.</p>