west coast ivy prestige?

College Search & Selection
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<p>okay, as a disclaimer, let me say that i'm not looking for a university. i already go to school at a college that i'm happy at. i was just thinking about this.</p>

<p>are there any schools on the west coast other than perhaps stanford which match the prestige of the ivy league?</p>

<p>and, to clarify, by that i don't mean uc berkeley or something. i mean schools that carry anywhere near the same mythologic heft. that bring to mind studying in ancient halls and secret societies and well dressed people living a sort of old world collegiate scholarly life.</p>

<p>i know that the truth is far from that, that they certainly aren't like that now if ever, but are there any schools on the west coast that come close to having that kind of prestige? even if it is a stretch? i can only really think of stanford and perhaps willamette or lewis and clark for their age (though, i don't think either really bring to mind what i'm talking about, if you disagree, though, i'd like to hear your take).</p>

<p>as a side note, the oldest university i know on the west coast is willamette, are there older ones?</p>

<p>i mean, it will be hard to beat the colonial ivy league in terms of that, actually, impossible. but i'm just wondering if there is anything similar to that on the west coast.</p>

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<p>You forgot CalTech. People always forget CalTech. I consider CalTech over all the Ivy Leagues. It has some of the most stringent SAT standards in the entire nation!</p>

<p>Also, the architecture of Willamette is nowhere as “old looking” as some of the other newer schools on the West Coast such as Stanford or some of the older CSUs and UCs. Willamette is a minor university built with modest funds and practical buildings but every university that partook in some sort of “revival” fad (ex. Spanish Colonial Revival) looks absurdly older despite being, in fact, newer.</p>

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<p>There’s UC Berkeley and the other UCs, Pomona, Harvey Mudd, University of Washington, Claremont McKenna, Reed, and USC. But most of them are less selective than the Ivies (especially for in-state).</p>

<p>Edit: These don’t carry the mythological heft you are looking for. Would you consider the Rockies region (these states aren’t technically on the West Coast, are they?)</p>

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<p>Such a university does not exist once you get very far West of the Mississippi. I mean, other than Stanford and a few public universities such as Berkeley (which the OP mentioned).</p>

<p>There are fairly obvious historic reasons for this. America started in the East, where most prestigious private universities and colleges were founded with religious affiliations to train young men for the ministry or law. Relatively few surviving private colleges and universities were founded in the West prior to the Morrill Acts (1862, 1890), which established the nation’s public land grant universities. By then, the educational model had changed in response to Industrial Revolution needs. The land grant universities focused on practical industrial and commercial needs rather than (or in addition to) the traditional liberal arts.</p>

<p>A few small liberal arts colleges were founded in the West more or less in imitation of traditional Eastern models. Mills College was founded in 1852 as a “young ladies seminary” headed up by an Oberlin graduate. Whitman College was founded in 1859 as a seminary. Colorado College was founded in 1874 with coeducational Oberlin College as its model. Its chief benefactor was a wealthy birthright Quaker (and Congressional Medal of Honor recipient) who granted land and funds for various religious and educational institutions in Colorado. Reed College was founded in 1908 with funds from another wealthy entrepreneur who wanted to bring culture to city life in the West.

</p>

<p>As a class, the small liberal arts colleges are probably closest to what the OP is describing (in terms of intellectual atmosphere if not prestige). Typically they feature old school collegiate architecture and a traditional liberal arts curriculum, but with some progressive twist on historic East Coast models. These are few in number, though.</p>

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<p>Another angle to consider is that the whole “prestige” thing gets a lot less traction outside the Northeast, except for parts of California and a few pockets such as the Chicago or Minneapolis suburbs. My relatives out West would be completely nonplussed by phenomena such as CTY, SAT prep classes, resume-padding “community service” trips to Africa, or private boarding schools. I doubt that top colleges from the University of Chicago to Reed are parsing the fine points of how well an applicant plays field hockey or whether they need an oboeist to craft a balanced class. Then at the other end of the college pipeline, their graduates aren’t herding into high-stakes career fields like investment banking and business consulting at the same rates (although they do tend to outperform the Ivies and NESCAC schools in alumni PhD completion rates).</p>

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<p>These are all stretches, please keep that in mind. Also, they are not in any particular order. </p>

<p>Stanford
USC
Berkeley
Pomona
Santa Clara
Washington
Reed
Colorado College
Occidental
Claremont McKenna</p>

<p>Maybe BYU</p>

<p>California will always be the dominate state in the West for high quality education. But, it is important to factor in that California is easily the size eastern states, from the top on PA to mid-GA.</p>

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<p>*****[…] easily the size ^of several eastern states, from to top of PA to mid-GA.</p>

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<p>hmmm. i didn’t think of Reed but it certainly has some sort of mystique to it, i guess because of how it is composed.</p>

<p>also, i might be biased, as i grew up in berkeley, but uc berkeley seems to carry nowhere near the same heft as some (or perhaps all) of the ivies. do people on the east coast who might care about that sort of thing (which i’m not sure i entirely understand who that is, is that limited to rich old families? does that extend to the middle class and perhaps below? is it really as important over there as some make it out to be?), uhm, do those people care about uc berkeley or stanford or reed or any of the schools so far listed (or any not so far listed) in the same way they do about the ivies?</p>

<p>and, again, as tk21769 said, i don’t think there will really be anywhere with the same heft. all (or most? i think all?) of the ivies are colonial period schools started in the late 1600s through the 1700s and it will be hard to match colleges which have sometimes over 200 years of age on schools on the west coast in terms of what imagery and mythology has developed there over time.</p>

<p>so, in addition to asking how the east coast sees some west coast schools and if any are even seen as close to ivies in terms of mythology (not academics, that is a different question), i guess also is there a certain way people on the east coast think of west coast university? like if we on the west coast think of the east coast as how i’ve sort of described the ivies, do people on the east coast have a view of west coast education?</p>

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<p>Stanford for sure, Pomona among those who know elite LACs.</p>

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<p>

STOP. Just stop it please.</p>

<p>There are only Stanford and Caltech that rival Ivy prestige. That’s all…
The only other universities that rival Ivy prestige are UChicago, MIT, and Duke. But UChicago and Duke aren’t west coast and they’re not HYP level.
Stanford, MIT, and arguably Caltech are HYP leveled. </p>

<p>As for LACs, you’ve got the Claremont Colleges.</p>

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<p>tk – Thanks for the his history! It was very interesting.</p>

<p>I’m from the East Coast. Putting “Ivy like” or “West Coast +prestige” in a sentence always calls to mind Stanford, CalTech, Pomona and Reed for me. Never UDub or Colorado College! Got family who went to UDub - they are so not into prestige. Colorado in my mind are smart kids who want to play outdoors without appearing to blow off responsibility.</p>

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<p>To begin with, this thread is insane. The Ivy League is unique to the East Coast and it is prestigious because it is very OLD. There is no such thing as Sotuh Ivy or West Ivy or Public Ivy. There is only Ivy League and that it. </p>

<p>

I would argue that Berkeley can rival Cornell any time and any day in academic prestige and academic quality whether at the undergrad level or postgrad level, and more so for professional programs.</p>

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<p>Not just cornell…Berkeley can rival almost all the IVY league colleges.</p>

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<p>RML, why won’t you come to reality? At the undergraduate level, Berkeley has low SAT scores, has a high admit rate, is always overshadowed by Stanford’s excellent undergraduate academics, is unable to produce sufficient Rhodes, Truman, etc scholars, and its facing budget issues that will only increase over time due to California’s poor economy.
Probably the only thing Berkeley can claim is the high number of Nobel Prizes it has earned in its history. Great job for playing a little part in the Manhattan Project :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Berkeley is a safety school for many. It was for me when I was applying to colleges. Schools such as Monta Vista, Lynbrook, Bellarmine, Harker, St.Francis, etc…these famous schools in the Bay each end up having 50+ kids admitted to Berkeley out of a class of ~300 each. Only around 19 end up choosing it eventually.
Berkeley’s reputation does not equal to the Ivy League AT ALL. I understand it hurts, but even many Berkeley students, given the opportunity, would have gone to Ivy League schools or Stanford.</p>

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<p>look uh, guys idk if most of you are getting the point. have you been to berkeley? its not like the ivies at all, regardless of what academics it does or doesn’t have.</p>

<p>its like, uc santa cruz is one of the top colleges on the planet (in the universe?) for astrophysics, one of the best in the country for linguistics, etc etc. its like, it has really strong academics in some areas, but we’re not talking about that. obviously santa cruz is nothing like the ivies.</p>

<p>i’m not asking about that kind of stuff here. i just mean atmosphere and mythology, not academics research etc. that stuff can add to it, but when you say stuff like UW and UC berkeley it doesn’t really make any sense in that frame of reference. i’ve visited both of those schools and they aren’t like the ivies, and i feel like a lot of the schools mentioned in this thread aren’t like the ivies. sorry. beggars can’t be choosers but i feel like you guys are focusing on the wrong things to answer my question the way i want it answered. haha i know thats selfish but there you go…</p>

<p>but to the people who do get it or even only kind of get it, thanks. i feel like yeah we’ve come up with the best we can. i feel like the prestige the west coast has is way different huh. like schools like reed that are kind of tucked away and way into drugs and experimentation, humboldt is kind of famous for that too i guess, and santa cruz too, being woodsy and sort of studious (more santa cruz than humboldt but i think calling santa cruz generally studious is a stretch except in graduate astrophysics or linguistics). the other kind of mythology i guess the west coast has is all of the tech schools and research schools like caltech berkeley etc. and i guess to an extent the rest of it just gets wrapped up in the mythology of the west coast (mostly california?). which i guess is the same as the ivies. so i guess thats kind of the west coast mythology.</p>

<p>ivy mythology is different, obviously. its like… hard for me to describe. i feel like i’ll do it wrong and i don’t want you guys to get me wrong haha. idk, maybe someone from the east coast can chime in on that. its like old school preppy, brick castle school buildings, sport events, schools from the late 1600s early 1700s, movie ivy stuff i guess. you know, like… idk. whatever that is. sorry.</p>

<p>then in terms of ivy kind of mythology theres schools like ucberkely yeah, who have some secret societies i guess but i think the nonacademic comparison really stop there. the students at the ivies, i know, aren’t like they were in their early days anymore, but the berkeley students are definitely way far from that. ha. reed i guess is closest and then stanford because i guess it was started in part from ivy sources. or at least molded by that idea. what i’m looking for is kind of whatever imagery is similar between the ivies and any schools on the west coast. i feel like sheldon jackson in alaska kind of felt that way for me just because it was old and sort of up north and secluded. maybe because in some way it reminds me of the shining haha, that kind of remoteness.</p>

<p>idk i’m sure the more i’m talking the more i’m turning most of you off of this conversation. so i’ll just stop while i can ha.</p>

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<p>Nobody has mentioned Deep Springs College, probably the most exclusive school in the country. Its beginnings and mission have a somewhat mythical quality. It evokes “There Will Be Blood” (with perhaps a little whiff of “Brokeback Mountain”). Cowboy, irrigator, butcher by day … reading Plato under the stars by night … then off to Harvard, Chicago, or Berkeley after 2 years in the high desert. But DSC is a tiny, remote, one-off creation that never took off as a model for a distinctly “western” approach.</p>

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<p>I know Berkeley is just a 'fall back" school for Stanford and HYPSMC. But I am not sure if Berkeley is commonly known to serve as a “fall back” school for those lower-ranked Ivies. I have known smart kids who turned down lower-ranked Ivies for Berkeley and vice versa.</p>

<p>In my previous post, I compared Berkeley with Cornell, not with Stanford. And, if you think Berkeley is just a “fall back” school for many, so is the other Ivies, and most especially, Cornell. </p>

<p>Berkeley students compare quite well with Cornell’s students. Let’s take a look at the student data of both schools so you can see for yourself that you have again committed a grave mistake about Berkeley.</p>

<p>Acceptance rate:
Berkeley - 23%
Cornell - 21%
Early decision acceptance rate:
Berkeley - NA
Cornell - 31%</p>

<p>Top 10% of high school class:
Berkeley - 99%
Cornell - 88%</p>

<p>SAT score (25/75 percentile): (Math and Critical Reading scores only)
Berkeley - 1270-1490
Cornell - 1280-1490</p>

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<p>^^^ Exactly. To call Berkeley a “safety school for many” (per MrPrince) is extraordinarily misleading. It <em>may</em> be a safety school for the Best of the Best of California residents who choose to apply to schools with single-digit acceptance rates plus Berkeley. No other way can it even be mentioned as other than a reach. It is, in fact, a reach for many of the top California hs students.</p>

<p>Disclaimer: I am an alum of both Cal (UC Berkeley to “outsiders” :slight_smile: ) and Stanford.</p>

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<p>I believe what the OP is referring to in regards to “mythology” or mystique - stands apart from any academic comparison. Schools in the west are too new to compete with the eastern mystique - it wouldn’t matter if their academic stats were all uniformly better than the Ivies, they would still be the younger upstarts of the academic world and there would be buzz about their vocational focus and how they still didn’t compare to the educational vision of the Ivies if that were the case (which it isn’t, I’m talking hypothetically here). This is why students dream of Harvard while Harvard treats undergrads with much less regard than many other schools…but the mystique of Harvard lures them, and always will. In acadamia tradition markets itself.</p>

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<p>I believe that rankings are mis leading. Berkeley might be ranked highly but it can’t match the exposure and feel of the IVYs. Even in Engineering, something Berekeley is ranked uber highly in, I feel that all IVYs and Duke, MIT, Stanford, Caltech and Northwestern are better. While Berkeley might give you a better Physics knowledge you will still earn more if you go to the above mentioned schools.</p>