Western Schools for the 3.0-3.3 kid

<p>Mamaduck I have no stats and I guess I am wrong (or per CLU-I am wrong) but we live about 20 minutes away and I have only know one guy who went there, recruited for a sorts team, and he left after the first year. It was never on the college radar for any friends of my kids…my D only applied because she received a VIP application. CLU does have a tuition guarantee-if a student is admitted to a top UC they will receive a scholorship for the difference of the tuition between the two schools-to allow a private school education for the cost of a public school.</p>

<p>I don’t doubt you - California is a big state! Perhaps they draw from other areas. I know my D would never go to our “local” schools - in fact, the closest is an 8 hour drive away!</p>

<p>Hi Sockher Mom- sounds like you must be close to us- my kids wouldn’t look at Pepperdine either! Surprisingly, we do know quite a few kids from our town at Cal Lu and even stranger, most live in the dorms. My kids just can’t figure that out since it is no more than 15 minutes from our house (we just drove by there last night going the back way and I timed it). A couple of the kids we know are there because they got great scholarships, and a couple are playing soccer there. My S was just approached by the soccer coach for next year but is not remotely interested because it is so close. </p>

<p>Mamaduck- if your D is interested in California, you might look at Sonoma State Univ. It is set in the wine country above San Francisco and is in a very pretty area. Our oldest D was very shy and quiet, and loved it there. It is a small school and class size was very small and intimate. Her instructors all knew her and really went out of their way to help all of the kids. It is close to Santa Rosa and about an hour from San Francisco. I would rank it above some of the other Cal States academically, but still within the range of this thread. Of course you would have to look at the OOS tuition…</p>

<p>We really liked Sonoma state, which is in our “referral areas”. I believe it might be an impacted campus now.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.calstate.edu/sas/impaction-campus-info.shtml[/url]”>http://www.calstate.edu/sas/impaction-campus-info.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Takeitallin and sockhermom, I’m in the Cal Lu area, too. DH is an adjunct there and loves the working environment. We have also attended some cultural events there on campus. One of D’s friends just decided to transfer from UCSB to Cal Lu where he will play a sport. He missed athletics and likes the small learning environment there.</p>

<p>Update on University of Denver - no merit aid in the acceptance package for my daughter’s stats. “Although your academic standing is excellent, we received so many competitive applications we regret that we cannot offer merit aid” Now, we just have to cross our fingers that their financial aid might meet most of our EFC gap. I really cannot tell much from their financial aid statistics.</p>

<p>D applied to Sonoma State. Waiting for results</p>

<p>Did seem like a nice campus. Good to hear it has a great learning environment</p>

<p>Like Shrinkrap, I haven’t been on this thread for awhile but thought I’d post quickly to let you know that we have had the same experience. Our California-native son has just completed his first semester at Michigan State and has matured so much in the last few months. Getting in is a stressful experience for those of us with kids in this range, and I have to admit the first semester I was pretty worried about how he’d do. But he has exceeded our expectations so far (fingers crossed it continues). Hang in there everyone, and best of luck as decisions start getting made.</p>

<p>DS got the same letter from Denver as Coral’s–too bad but still waiting on one more school and hoping for good news</p>

<p>Hey Western posters! So my parents are just beginning the college search for my sophomore brother. His GPA is (so far) well above this thread’s cutoff, but by the time graduation comes around he likely will not have taken many challenging courses. Therefore, it’s important that he goes to a school where the level of academic rigor is not overly excessive. He’d like to stay in the West Coast and will probably apply to UWash, Washington State, UOregon, Oregon State, University of Arizona, and maybe a few UCs, but my parents are thinking about some of the smaller Catholic schools. My family is nominally Jewish, so schools like Pepperdine are out. </p>

<p>Does anyone know how religious these schools are?
-University of San Diego
-University of Portland
-University of San Francisco
-Gonzaga University</p>

<p>Of the schools listed, I only know USF well, and know it to very liberal and inclusive. I have a Catholic friend who thought it was too liberal for her kids. The school wears it’s Catholic affiliation lightly.</p>

<p>^ Agree with this assessment of USF. I’m not that familiar with the others.</p>

<p>I grew up near USF and went to junior high a couple blocks from there, it is very boring. There is no college feel at that school. Use to go and use their tennis courts and go in the main building, would never see students. With so much to do in San Francisco students must be out all the time because never see them near the school.</p>

<p>First, a thank you to those on this thread and other 3.0-3.3 threads. Your comments were very helpful to us as we put together a list of potential schools for my son. Now I have a few questions for those of you who are familiar with the schools in question.</p>

<p>My son is a smart kid with a frustrating array of learning disabilities. We had a hard time getting him diagnosed at first, because he tends to test above average (though not by all that much) on most general instruments. His school district didn’t want to dig too deep, though his elementary school teachers were adamant that he was not making the grade in the classroom. After investing in more thorough testing we learned that he has a number of areas in which he struggles, but the greatest challenge he faces is slow processing speed. While there are a number of strategies he can use to improve his performance, the most important accommodation he needs is the one that no public school can provide: small class size. For middle and high school we sent him to private schools with small classes where he really blossomed as a student. He is a kid who works hard for his B+ average, takes pride in being a good student, and is excited about going to college. He is active in extracurricular activities (SB president, basketball team co-captain, and hundreds of hours of community service). He was frank about his LD struggles on his applications, and he’s had good luck so far on his admissions. Now that we’re getting a better idea of his options, we need advice regarding the specific schools.</p>

<p>A few factors/needs/wants to keep in mind:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>He wants to study Environmental Science (leaning much more heavily on the science side and less heavily on the social science/policy making side). He thinks his interests are more on the Biology than the Earth Science end of the discipline, though he is flexible about this.</p></li>
<li><p>He does much better in small classes and will need to meet with teachers and TAs outside of class on a regular basis. </p></li>
<li><p>Our financial resources are limited. We can afford a CSU. UCs would be a challenge, though we would not receive aid (we would get it done by having him take on the maximum student loans, which we would help him pay off). Anything over $30k per year will force us to take on significant debt. </p></li>
<li><p>He would like to stay reasonably close to home, and definitely on the West Coast. We live in Northern California. He prefers cool weather to hot, and is not a fan of Southern California.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Thus far, he has been admitted to:</p>

<p>Humboldt State
Saint Mary’s
Southern Oregon
University of San Francisco (decent financial aid extremely unlikely)
Willamette ($18k in aid, combined merit and need based)</p>

<p>He still has applications outstanding at:</p>

<p>CSU Monterey Bay
Cal Poly Pomona
Cal Poly SLO (super unlikely)
Sonoma State
UC Davis (super unlikely)
UC Merced
UC Riverside
US Santa Cruz
University of the Pacific (financial aid likely to be limited, though better than USF)</p>

<p>We recognize that all of these schools represent trade-offs. The CSUs have smaller classes and are the most affordable, but they have the worst student:faculty ratio. They also have the worst graduation rates. The UCs have a better student:faculty ratio, but their classes (especially inroductory science classes) are huge. They’re also far from cheap. Willamette seems ideal (small classes, great ratio), but it is expensive and farther from home than the others. Saint Mary’s and USF are close and have small classes, but they will be by far the most expensive options. Right now, of the schools to which he has been admitted, Willamette and Humboldt are his favorites, though he still has to visit Willamette.</p>

<p>If you are familiar with any of his options, we would love your advice.</p>

<p>1)How is their LD support? Is tutoring available, or just extended time/audio books, etc. If tutoring is available, is it offered for all subjects?</p>

<p>2)Are professors available and willing to meet with students outside of class?</p>

<p>3)How strong is the Environmental Science program? What is its reputation among those in the field?</p>

<p>4)For the CSUs and UCs, are state budget cutbacks negatively affecting faculty morale? If so, how is this affecting the students’ experience?</p>

<p>5)For the private schools, are the better student:faculty ratio and individual attention worth the price?</p>

<p>3) Of the schools he’s been admitted to, Humboldt State has, hands down, the best environmental science program. It’s extremely strong in both the biological and oceanographic side of the field, and offers almost unparalleled opportunities for field work.</p>

<p>SOU is next, and seems to offer a great deal of hands on experience for those interested in the ecological side of environmental science. The geology program, and physical part of the environmental science curriculum seems a bit lacking.</p>

<p>USF appears to offer a decent ecology program, but the physical science aspect of environmental science is lacking.</p>

<p>I would not recommend Willamette, or St. Mary’s for environmental science. The course offerings seem too limited, and I don’t believe they offer any classes in GIS (important for internships and post undergrad employment). Tbh the programs seem like they were added as an after thought</p>

<p>Of the UCs your son applied to, and has a chance of getting into, UCSC has the best environmental science program. Riverside comes next, followed by Merced. Santa Cruz’s location makes it excellent for almost every subdivision of earth/environmental science.</p>

<p>I’m not sure about how much aid it would give, but has your son considered University of Denver? I’ve read it has good LD support and a strong environmental science program.</p>

<p>Whenhen, re: Catholic schools for non-Catholic students & Gonzaga:</p>

<p>I have one daughter currently at Gonzaga, and another just accepted. For all the Catholic universities, it might be helpful to look at the core curriculum to see what the requirements are for religion classes and what the the college says about them. (Gonzaga: 4 philosophy classes and 3 religion classes. <a href=“Office of the Provost | Gonzaga University”>http://www.gonzaga.edu/Campus-Resources/Offices-and-Services-A-Z/Academic-Vice-President/RELI_univ_core_course-learning_outcomes_7-13-12.pdf&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>Lots of non-Catholics attend Gonzaga - almost 50% of the student body, I think. I don’t believe a non-Catholic will be harrassed or discriminated against. But the atmosphere is inherently Catholic. If someone is going to be freaked out by a crucifix in every classroom, a priest on the bench with the players at the basketball games etc., it’s probably not a good fit.</p>

<p>The emphasis of the philosophy/religion curriculum seems to be on critical thinking and understanding why you believe what you believe and putting your beliefs into action for the good of society. </p>

<p>One of the Jesuit priests talked about it this way at parent orientation:</p>

<p>If you’re Catholic, we want you to leave as the best Catholic you can be.</p>

<p>If you’re Mormon, we want you to leave as the best Mormon you can be.</p>

<p>If you’re a Muslim, we want you to leave as the best Muslim you can be.</p>

<p>If you’re a Presbyterian, we want you to leave as the best Presbyterian you can be.</p>

<p>If you’re an agnostic, we want you to have thought it through, be able to explain why, and to be the best agnostic you can be.</p>

<p>If you’re an athiest - —(Punch line) “Why the hell are you here?” - that is, why would an atheist choose a school with these requirements and atmosphere?</p>

<p>My daughter wasn’t excited when she saw the first religion class on her schedule. (She hadn’t noticed the religion requirement before she enrolled.) She complained that she’d been through 13 years of Catholic school and what more could they teach her? The class ended up being her favorite class that semester (Old Testament).</p>

<p>whenhen, thank you for your detailed reply.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Are you sure about Willamette? They definitely lean hard on the Earth Science end of the spectrum, but they seem to have decent (though limited) program. Here are the major requirements:</p>

<pre><code>BIOL 110 (NW) Principles of Biology (1) or
BIOL 125 Ecology, Evolution and Diversity (1) or
BIOL 210 (W; NW) Biodiversity: Discovering Life (1)
CHEM 115 (NW) Introductory Chemistry I (1)
ECON 122 (US) Principles of Microeconomics (1)
ENVR 105 Introduction to Environmental Science (1)
ERTH 110 (NW) Physical Geology (1)
ERTH 112 (NW) Physical Geography (1)
ERTH 333 (QA) Geographic Information Systems (1)
POLI 210 (US) American Politics (1)
POLI 304 (W; AR) Politics of Environmental Ethics (1)
ENVR 495 (W) Senior Seminar in Environmental Science: Part I (.5)
ENVR 496 (W) Senior Seminar in Environmental Science: Part II (.5)
Plus 3 from:
BIOL 255 General Ecology (1)
CHEM 230 Environmental Chemistry (1)
ENVR 333 Biogeography (1)
ENVR 347 Quaternary Paleonevironments
ENVR 445 Forest Ecology and Policy (1)
ERTH 350 (W) Environmental Geology (1)
ERTH 351 (W) Archaeological Geology (1)
And 1 from:
ECON 345 Environmental Economics (1) or
IDS 347 Chemistry, Economics and the Environment (1)
ENVR 332 (W) Sustainable Agriculture (1)
ENVR 349 Environmental History of Zena
HIST 315 (TH) Western Civilization and Sustainability; Origin to 1600 or
ENVR 326 (TH) Environmental History (1)
ENVR 327 (W) Water Resources (1)
ENVR 332 (W) Sustainable Agriculture for the 21st Century (1)
ENVR 445 Forest Ecology and Policy (1)
POLI 341 Environmental Policymaking: Politics and Process (1)
</code></pre>

<p>I realize they offer nowhere near the choice of Humboldt (where close to 12% of the students graduate in an Environmental Science field), but I was wondering if the smaller class size and better student:faculty ratio might give him more support and a better foundation. Of course at Humboldt he’d have the luxury of coming in with scores and grades at roughly the 75th percentile, rather than the 25th-35th percentile at Willamette.</p>

<p>I guess I should have also mentioned concerns regarding graduation rates. My son is not at all flaky,but I know that peer group can have a significant impact on school completion. The six year (!) graduation rates for these schools are:</p>

<p>Southern Oregon 33%
CSU Monterey Bay 38%
Humboldt 40%
Cal Poly Pomona 51%
Sonoma 53%
Merced 58%
Saint Mary’s 61%
Riverside 65%
UOP 69%
USF 70%
Santa Cruz 73%
Willamette 77%</p>

<p>Hmm the page I was looking at must have been different than the one you saw. In that case Willamette looks like a good option (though I still believe Humboldt State has the best program)</p>

<p>whenhen,</p>

<p>Thanks also for making me look at the SOU program more closely. It looks great. I wish the graduation rate were not so terrifying.</p>

<p>The Saint Mary’s offerings are super limited, though there appear to be many interesting classes hidden away in the Biology program (that’s where they house Ecology, Conservation Biology, and Evolutionary Biology). I imagine that one could create a more well rounded, less Earth Science dominated program by adding a Biology minor, or do a Bio major with an Environmental Science minor. I find it fascinating how different the various Environmental Science programs are, depending on whether they are outgrowths of Earth Science or Biology departments.</p>

<p>The info about Willamette’s Environmental Science program is here: <a href=“http://www.willamette.edu/cla/ees/info/index.html[/url]”>http://www.willamette.edu/cla/ees/info/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I totally agree about Humboldt. I have a former student who went to Humboldt and works in the field (for the state). She speaks very highly of it, especially the fact that all undergrads do research. She said that at the UCs only the top students have the opportunity to do research. Humboldt is affordable, not too far away (6 hour drive), and my son liked it when we visited. I was pretty thrilled to see that the student convenience store sells fresh vegetables! If not for concerns about ratio, state funding cutbacks, and graduation rate, it would be a no brainer.</p>

<p>Willamette is a great school and offers the things that a small private school can: lots of teacher/student interaction and small classes. We have a bright daughter with LDs who sounds a lot like your son and she really thrived at a small LAC in the midwest; teachers knew her and were available to answer questions, clarify points and make suggestions. She had such a great experience that we urged our son who doesn’t have LDs to attend a small LAC, Willamette was one he had great interest in.</p>