<p>MichaelJ: Congrats :D And yeah I know what you mean about the A- thing.</p>
<p>Sent a PM</p>
<p>im so happy - my sister just found out she got into Wharton today from SEAS.....yay!!!</p>
<p>JCo is not going to be pleased with me, hahah. Believe me JCo I'm different!! :D:D</p>
<p>Legend no :(</p>
<p>question ... how would you plan your 4 years with a transfer? it seems RIDICULOUS!</p>
<p>what do you mean? like how would you take your first year classes if you plan on transferring?</p>
<p>I would make sure that you the minimum amount of required courses your first year so that while you maintain a lot of flexibility in your courseload, you're not screwed if you don't get your internal transfer. Since the schools (except for engineering) have a lot of free/distribution credits, you'll find that a lot of classes overlap. Common ones are Econ & Math. Those are the classes you want to take your first year.</p>
<p>I took a risk though and signed up for OPIM, a Wharton-req class which was actually very cool -- I'm glad I took it. Learned a lot from it. But I wouldn't advise doing something like that because there is the chance that transfer fails, rendering such classes useless in terms of allocating requirements, but it is still a worthwhile class I think.</p>
<p>Basically, as a freshman, take what you want and work Econ and Math into it, as MJ stated. Be prepared for a slight kick to the groin with Math though. Odds are, it was taught poorly at your high school. Be prepared to face really bad test grades unless you really know what you're doing.</p>
<p>Max, what math did you take?</p>
<p>What math would a freshman end up taking if he tested out of 104 by getting a 5 on the AP? Are there easier rather than harder options?</p>
<p>114 or 115 is what you would take. 115 is intended for people who are planning on never taking math again, like premeds, and is more over a cursory wrapup of math, whereas 114 prepares you for the next step, 240.</p>
<p>legendofmax, can you elaborate on why you learned a lot from OPIM?</p>
<p>Also, am I the only one who thinks that evaluating Internal Transfer/Dual Degree Wharton Applications on just GPA basis is unfair?</p>
<p>OPIM was cool because it teaches you how to find optimal solutions to stuff... like our second Case was one where we had to create an Excel/VBA thing to look at an array of computer-part websites w/stores and figure out which stores would get us what we needed at the lowest cost given the opportunity costs of visiting a store etc. OPIM is like "Here's your resources, here's the crap holding you back, figure out the best decision." </p>
<p>Rudess there are more requirements than just GPA for transfer but yes it is questionable. You'd think there would be something more I guess? What about it strikes you unfairly?</p>
<p>For a Freshman at Penn, what else do they have under their belt besides GPA? I agree, perhaps the rigor of the courseload should be looked at, but GPA is more or less all they have.</p>
<p>well if you think it's unfair, then apply to Jerome Fisher M&T program instead =D. In addition to your GPA, they also look at two teacher recs, courseload rigor, essays, and possible extracirriculars. The only catch: The cutoff GPA has been around 3.93 these past few years.</p>
<p>"114 or 115 is what you would take. 115 is intended for people who are planning on never taking math again, like premeds, and is more over a cursory wrapup of math, whereas 114 prepares you for the next step, 240."</p>
<p>I'm guessing 114 is a lot harder than 115. Do most wharton kids take 115? How hard is it?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Rudess there are more requirements than just GPA for transfer but yes it is questionable. You'd think there would be something more I guess? What about it strikes you unfairly?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, there are other requirements (like the classes you need to take, i.e. Econ001/002, Math104, etc), but crude GPA is what they use to decide who gets in and who doesn't. Once you have the requirements to apply, if your GPA is above the cutoff, then you get in, otherwise you don't.</p>
<p>What I think is unfair about this is precisely what JCoveney mentions -- the rigor of the courseload. By basing the decisions on just GPA, they are basically saying: "if you really want to get into Wharton, do everything you can to have a high GPA." I could've taken 4 (easy) classes first and second semesters (4.5 cu's) and have a much greater chance of getting a GPA above 3.7 or whatever. But instead, I decided to challenge myselft by taking 5.5 cu's and 6.0 cu's, respectively, including some not very easy subjects, and now all my chaces of applying for a Dual Degree are gone. Crude GPA is definitely not the best criterion, if you asked me.</p>
<p>
[quote]
well if you think it's unfair, then apply to Jerome Fisher M&T program instead =D. In addition to your GPA, they also look at two teacher recs, courseload rigor, essays, and possible extracirriculars. The only catch: The cutoff GPA has been around 3.93 these past few years.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, M&T requires much more things, and the application is similar to a regular admissions application (essays, recommendations, etc), but then again it's much harder to get into M&T, and you said it yourself -- there is a cutoff. Although, are you sure there is an 'official' cutoff? I had the impression that for M&T, as long as you had a GPA above 3.4, then you apply, and applications are judged holistically after that (of course you would probably need a very high GPA to have a chance, but that is because of how competitive the program is).</p>
<p>yeah, actually i don't think there's a cutoff, it's more of a general rule that your GPA should be around 3.93. I've heard that people with 3.87s get rejected</p>
<p>I think for M&T they just want to make it extremely hard. There is probably not a strict 3.9 cutoff but if you're really close to it it'll probably be fine. </p>
<p>Rudess: I am sure you are correct about people taking easy courses. I don't think any of my courses were overly easy though other than the Writing Seminar. But I had Philosophy (notorious for giving sub-A's), OPIM, Chinese, Math, Econ, 20 hours of work study a week, etc. Basically the schedule of a Whartonite with a harder language minus the MGMT course and a crapload of work study -- so I do not feel that my schedule was at all easy. The math could have been a lot harder though to make it more rigorous but I plan to do that next year, anyway.</p>
<p>But Rudess if you do plan to switch next year, you can do it after the next semester or after the end of the year. However your GPA will need to be higher than 3.8 most likely. Did you try to apply already?</p>
<p>If you don't like the requirements for transferring into Wharton or doing a dual degree with Wharton, then maybe you should have applied to Wharton directly. It's much easier to transfer out of Wharton or do a dual degree when you start in Wharton than the other way around. </p>
<p>Would it really be much fairer to have someone arbitrarily decide whether one class (or two or three or four) is more difficult than another that a different student is taking? How can you compare that many classes and that many applications? And based on what? </p>
<p>I think you are much better off with them judging just your GPA than them judging you like they would freshmen applications. Because then hardly anyone would get in. Would that be a better option for you?</p>
<p>Sorry, but it annoys me when people complain about how hard it is to get into Wharton after you're already at Penn. If that's what you wanted then you should have applied straight to Wharton in the first place. And if you think it's unfair then imagine how much harder it would be for everyone if they used more than just GPA. If anything you should be happy.</p>
<p>Also, Wharton students can't take Math 115. It says that on their website.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But Rudess if you do plan to switch next year, you can do it after the next semester or after the end of the year. However your GPA will need to be higher than 3.8 most likely. Did you try to apply already?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, I did not apply first year because I don't have a high enough GPA. And chances are I will also not apply at any point of sophomore year because it's practically impossible that my GPA is above 3.7 by then. Just for the record, the subjects I took were: 1st semester: Phys150, Chem101, Chem053, CSE120/130, Econ001. 2nd semester: CSE121/131, CSE260, MATH114, ECON002, PHYS151.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you don't like the requirements for transferring into Wharton or doing a dual degree with Wharton, then maybe you should have applied to Wharton directly. It's much easier to transfer out of Wharton or do a dual degree when you start in Wharton than the other way around.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with you; applying to Wharton in the first place is probably a better strategy. Personally, I did not because 1) My first interest was always engineering; 2) I didn't even seriously considered and/or researched Wharton when I applied; 3) I did not know enough about the Dual application process in order to 'discover' that applying to Wharton first is a better strategy. Still, even if 3) was not a reason, I wouldn't have applied to Wharotn in the first place; if your interest and first priority has always been engineering, applying to a business school may just feel 'weird'.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Would it really be much fairer to have someone arbitrarily decide whether one class (or two or three or four) is more difficult than another that a different student is taking? How can you compare that many classes and that many applications? And based on what?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, this is precisely the issue, but I think there are some ways in which the courseload and classes can be taken into account. I don't feel like proposing something serious now, but I mean, if you look at class averages or some other grade statistics, I think it would be 'clear' that it is harder to get an A in Chem or Phys than it is in Econ or Philosophy... I don't want to get into a harsh debate here... Also, I think engineers in general have a harder courseload than college students (I'm not saying this is a fact, but I think many people, including college students, would agree), but nevertheless, this is not currently taken into account, as Engineering Dual Degree Applications, College Dual Degree Applications, and Internal Transfer from College Applications are all considered within the same pool. Note: it may appear that I'm throwing this 'College rant' at legendofmax, but please don't take it personal. I seriously congratulate you for getting into Wharton.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think you are much better off with them judging just your GPA than them judging you like they would freshmen applications. Because then hardly anyone would get in. Would that be a better option for you?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But why do you assume that by looking at other things besides GPA, then it is harder to get in? Basically if they keep the 'you need at least 3.4 for your application to be considered' requirement, but instead eliminate any further cutoffs and also ask for a personal statement or something, then the number of applicants wouldn't change by that much, and people with GPA's below 3.7 would stand a chance.</p>
<p>
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Sorry, but it annoys me when people complain about how hard it is to get into Wharton after you're already at Penn.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not really complaining about how hard it is to get in; I'm discussing the fairness of their current selection method and the possibility of using other criteria. Maybe it is the same thing, but oh well...</p>
<p>
[quote]
If that's what you wanted then you should have applied straight to Wharton in the first place. And if you think it's unfair then imagine how much harder it would be for everyone if they used more than just GPA.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, Wharton is not what I wanted. And again, you assume that if they use more than GPA then it's harder. Why?</p>
<p>
[quote]
If anything you should be happy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not happy, I'm not sad. The intention of my original question was mere curiosity -- I wanted to see what everyone else had to say about the issue. Probably my posts after the first question (and this post, too), seem like a rant from a poor engineer who will not be able to get into Wharton, but really, it's not that I'm angry or anything. I always saw the possibility of a Dual degree with Wharton as an 'aggregate value' to my engineering education and as an interesting intellectual challenge, but definitely not as the beginning and end of all things.</p>
<p>Wow, this post is long. I guess you can see how much free time I have!</p>