Wharton Transfer

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>Yeah if your interest is engineering, Wharton is probably not your cup of tea unless you want to dual between the two schools. As for classes -- it is not necessarily harder in one class or another. Science/math/physics/and especially CS is my forte (I helped my Engineering roommate with a majority of his homework) but I am not going for an engineering degree of any kind. It is challenging to do well in already-challenging classes where everyone else does well because then the standards are much higher in a tough subject. It really depends on your strengths. This is why it's hard for Penn to evaluate rigor given such a small record. But yes for engineers it is probably the hardest because I think they have the lowest average GPA? It's a little harsh since a lot of the subject matter has a clear-cut answer to most of it. I mean look at Math 104 -- people get slaughtered even in that class, and the Engineers have to take a lot more classes like this. Anyways thanks for the congratulations -- btw are you AT? I think you lived down the hall from me in Hill.</p>

<p>As for your statement about the 3.4 vs 3.7 thing... mind you the GPA thing is not some number they set. They go in descending GPA order for as many seats that are available. So if a bunch of 4.0 students applied for 15 spots, the 3.9 person may not even get a chance. The reason why the M&T cutoff is so high is because there are so few people who drop M&T (cough cough JCo), making room for other people. Thus the ones who get the limited slots are the ones with the killer GPAs. They add the other requirements (recs, etc) because they want to discourage people from transferring in since it is indeed a hard program and they don't want just anyone getting in, I think.</p>

<p>The reason why adding more criterions in addition to "GPA" would make it harder is simply that in itself -- it makes it harder -- there are more possible criterions for one to fail at. I don't know how they can fix this other than adding a sort of interview process, eliminating those that were obviously just backdooring. Thing is, everyone's in Penn already so we already passed the test of the admissions officers. It's kind of difficult to pull anything more from a fresh start in college since all we really have is GPA. Some people from high school get higher starts in college because they have credit from high school or came from better schools, etc (like I had to take 104 because I simply did not have the credit -- high school didn't offer it and I couldn't take the AP/IB for it) and so it would be questionable to add in course rigor especially since everyone has different skills. I'm personally very happy about Wharton because I felt like I really earned it -- I've had a lot on my plate that most people don't have to deal with and I feel like this symbolizes a start to something good.</p>

<p>Anyways if you wanted to apply for a dual I am sure it is still possible mathematically -- it is always good to keep options open.</p>

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<p>fair or not, I don't really see how else it could be done. By using a numerical quantity there's really no room for argument, whereas you can imagine the clamor there would be from dissatisfied students if the administration had arbitrarily assigned "difficulty ratings" to classes.</p>

<p>the engineering cirriculum DOES make it very difficult to maintain the average. Chem 053 really hurt my GPA, but what incoming SEAS freshman who want to keep their options open should do is minimize engineering only classes. I kept enough options open so that I could go wherever I wanted when I figured out what I wanted to do exactly.</p>

<p>So, I took the required math and sciences (can't really progress in engineering without 'em): 114/240, chem101, phys 152 (had credit for 151). The only engineering class I took was EAS101 which i really regret doing. I didn't learn much from the class and all it did was lower my GPA. The rest of my classes were econ, writing, & stat. I did have the minimum base required if I was going to stick with just engineering, but I also took an easier course that I was interested in (stat111) instead of the engineering class.</p>

<p>So the real key for any incoming freshmen is to plan your schedule based on what you want to do at penn. If you are planning on getting 2 degrees or you have a sudden change of interest during your first semester, make sure you plan your schedule taking into account:</p>

<ol>
<li>You might not get in. Plan your schedule so that you're not screwed over in your home school if that happens.</li>
<li>Keep your schedule flexible. Especially if you're planning a transfer, use up a lot of your distribution/free credits on courses that will work towards your second school's requirements.</li>
<li>Postpone the more difficult courses. This might strike some as trying to "game the system" but since that's the way things work you might as well accept it. Take the "soft" class that strikes you as interesting but will also boost your grades. Use up some of your free credits.</li>
</ol>

<p>However don't place all your hopes on the second school. It's only going to get harder and harder to get a second degree from Wharton as more and more people apply as freshman. The school you're in now is the one you applied to anyway and is probably flexible enough. Wharton is the most competitive IT/DD school, but systems engineering and econ or PPE in college can lead to careers in similar fields.</p>

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<p>
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As for your statement about the 3.4 vs 3.7 thing... mind you the GPA thing is not some number they set. They go in descending GPA order for as many seats that are available

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<p>Yea, it's based on available places; I just said 3.7 randomly because I think that historically the cutoff has been around 3.7. You do need 3.4 for your application to be considered, which I think is 'reasonable'.</p>

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btw are you AT? I think you lived down the hall from me in Hill.

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<p>I just sent you a PM.</p>

<p>About adding more criteria other than GPA, well, you are correct in that there are more possible ways in which you can 'fail', but it also opens the opportunity to students who really have strong reasons for applying but whose GPA doesn't meet the cutoff for that year (but it's still competitive). It also helps to spot backdoor applicants, as you said. Maybe they could also separate pools, ie make an Engineering pool, and a College pool, and offer places according to the number of College/Engineering applicants (this based on the hypothesis that engineers' load, in general, is harder, and that their average GPA is, as you said, lower). An application with more requirements may even reduce the number of applicants (because now it takes more work to apply), and perhaps stop some kids who think along the lines of 'Cool, I got a 3.8 GPA, so maybe I'm going to apply for a Dual degree with Wharton and see what happens. After all, I just need to submit a form, and I will probably get in. I don't lose anything and I gain the Wharton prestige.'</p>

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Anyways if you wanted to apply for a dual I am sure it is still possible mathematically -- it is always good to keep options open

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<p>Well, funnily enough, it's not possible mathematically! If I get straight A's in all of sophomore year, my GPA doesn't even reach 3.6 (from this you can probably infer that my GPA kind of sucks, ;p). For it to reach 3.6/3.7, I would have to take a ridiculous amount of credit units and get A's in all of them. The only option is that, I get straight A's all of sophomore year, and somewhow the cutoff at the end of Spring 2007 is really low. But for this, I need to take Acct101/102, and Stat430/431 (or ESE301/302), and I'm not sure if 'spending' those 4 cu's is worth it considering the very very small chance I have.</p>

<p>MichaelJ, the advise you give is certainly wise. Personally, I preferred not to 'minimize' any engineering classes, because that would have slowed my engineering progress considerably. I decided to risk it and take a 'regular' engineering curriculum with Econ001 and Econ002. It didn't work out, but oh well, I can still easily do a Dual degree with Econ, or countless other options. Right now I have one thing at my advantage: lots of completed cu's.</p>

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<p>I would actually not advise taking an "easier" schedule in hopes of transferring. That kind of defeats the purpose of attending freshman year -- you should still get the most out of it. Say you minimize and then are unable to transfer for whatever reason. Then it was just a waste of time. You should not have a problem with the schedule because if you're interested in Wharton then most likely you're going to take Econ anyway and so it isn't so much an issue for such students. It really hurts the people who have to go out of their way to take transfer-necessary courses, which it should. I took OPIM because I figured it was a "test of last resort" -- if I got a bad grade in it and it kept me from being able to transfer, then it was probably for the best. But I liked OPIM and I like a lot of the business/math classes and so I was more sure of transferring.</p>

<p>I think your idea of separating pools is a wonderful idea though. That would be a good way to gauge GPA. The only drawback is that sometimes you might get an engineer who takes very few rigorous engineering courses but gets the advantage of having a more lenient cutoff. This was probably taken into account and is why the system is as it is now.</p>

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<p>Yeah, maybe if they see an engineer taking no real engineering classes, they could do something about it...</p>

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<p>An "Easier" schedule does not necessarily mean taking classes you would not have taken otherwise. You can easily sacrifice a free credit you would have used later on and use it freshman year instead. Thus you're really not giving anything up in the long run; you're basically just manipulating the peak of your GPA so that it occurs right at the end of freshman year.</p>

<p>Given the way the system works, I chose to do that. I would have been perfectly comfortable staying in just engineering, as I do have all the required first year courses, and then some (240 isn't exactly the easiest class); it's not like I'm telling SEAS pre-frosh to take 8 ridiculously non-seas easy classes.</p>

<p>Given the risk of not getting the magic grade, no one should ever hinge their whole schedule based on their acceptance to a second school</p>

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<p>Coming back to how difficult it is to transfer externally into Wharton...</p>

<p>I got an email from my academic advisor a few days ago and she said that they accepted only 24 out of 378 applicants. Thats like 6.3%. Yes it's definitely not easy.</p>

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<p>The few the proud the marines.</p>

<p>Oh, and those Wharton transfers I guess maybe.</p>

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<p>I think MichaelJ raises a good point - if the measures weren't so objective, then everyone and their mom and lawyer father would be calling and complaining that they/their kid did not get in and demanding that their application be reconsidered. This way it's a clear yes or no.</p>

<p>The reason why I said it would be harder to consider applications the way they do freshmen applications (not just adding additional criteria) is that they look at things like leadership and high school performance. Chances are that a lot of people applying for IT/DD would not have made it into Wharton as an incoming freshman because they didn't have all the pieces of the pie. Just because someone passed the test of admission for SEAS/COL/NURS does not mean they would have gotten into WH as all the schools value different things more than others.</p>

<p>But overall, I think adding subjectivity could make it really messy and difficult (and of course everyone would complain when they didn't get in ). </p>

<p>To be on your side though, Rudess, I do think that the process is harder for Engineers trying to do a dual degree since you guys are seriously pursuing the engineering curriculum. But, like someone else said, it is impossible for Wharton to regulate what courses SEAS students take and you know that there will be SEAS students who won't take any engineering classes with the intention to transfer out. Then you'll be ambushed by your own people.</p>

<p>I don't know. I guess I agree that it's not totally fair, but still think it's the best that they can actually do.</p>

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<p>Well, I don't think the mom and lawyer complaining thing is a strong argument. I mean, regular admissions applications are propense to this kind of complaining, too. They can just say "All decisions are final, we don't reconsider applications, we can't tell you why you didn't get in, period. (sue us if you want to, and then we'll tell you why you didn't get in.)". Basically any decision process that isn't based in totally objective criteria has this problem, but this doesn't mean every process should be changed to numerical, crude criteria just so that there are no objections to the decisions.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The reason why I said it would be harder to consider applications the way they do freshmen applications (not just adding additional criteria) is that they look at things like leadership and high school performance. Chances are that a lot of people applying for IT/DD would not have made it into Wharton as an incoming freshman because they didn't have all the pieces of the pie. Just because someone passed the test of admission for SEAS/COL/NURS does not mean they would have gotten into WH as all the schools value different things more than others.

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<p>I agree with the 'schools look for different things' part and with the fact that it is possible that some people who got into SEAS/SAS/Nursing would not have gotten into Wharton (in reality, we never know what would have happened with any specific candidate). However, in this case, there are a limited number of available spaces, and I think the objective would still be to fill up all those places. Chances are the admissions commitee will still find enough qualified applicants to fill in those places. As long as the number of applicants doesn't suddenly increase by a lot, I would't say the difficulty of getting in would change significantly (the applicaton would require more things, tough).</p>

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But, like someone else said, it is impossible for Wharton to regulate what courses SEAS students take and you know that there will be SEAS students who won't take any engineering classes with the intention to transfer out.

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<p>This is precisely why I'm suggesting that the courseload of the applicant is looked at by someone. If there is an Engineering applicant that hasn't taken any engineering class, then this would be taken into account in the admissions decisions (chances are the candidate is, as you say, a backdoor applicant.)</p>

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I don't know. I guess I agree that it's not totally fair, but still think it's the best that they can actually do.

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<p>Yeah, I mean, maybe it's better if they leave it that way... I don't know... it's certainly an interesting discussion. Thanks for your valuable input and for replying to my question.</p>

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<p>hrm speaking of possible backdoor, don't they also try to screen for that during the initial application itself?</p>

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<p>what exactly on an application would hint that a person is "backdooring"? </p>

<p>do whoever runs the internal transfer process ever actually say, "yeah you have a 3.8 GPA but we think you are backdooring so you'll have to stay in CAS"? I kind of doubt it.</p>

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<p>no one does that for internal transfers, but an indication of someone trying to backdoor would be hs classes/extracirrics/internships that point to one school while the student is applying to another. For example, if someone with only liberal arts education and a strong slant towards the humanities, and terrible grades in math and science applied to SEAS (hoping to backdoor college) they might think they are trying to backdoor. But do they actually do anything about it?</p>

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<p>what if I already got rejected once, when i applied in high school?</p>

<p>And if I have a 4.0 at university of michigan...will that still work out ok?</p>

<p>i got straight out rejected from ed</p>

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<p>I will be attending Columbia University next year, but I'm having second thoughts after being accepted early decision. What are my chances at transferring to Wharton with a 1570 SAT (math and verbal), a 760 writing, and about a 3.9 GPA?</p>

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<p>dL17 - see mishra's post above - they take like 25 out of 400 transfer applicants, so no matter how good your scores are (and you don't know what your college GPA will be yet) your chances stink - they just don't have that many seats open up. Maybe if you bought every Wharton freshmen a burrito at Taco Bell or something they'd have more vacancies. So make the best of what you have - put all your heart into being a Columbia student - if you have one foot out the door you won't have the best experience.</p>

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<p>pennfan i have noticed that u post at many different threads and give different stats and years of graduation...whats the deal?</p>

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<p>so just to clear up the confusion...</p>

<p>if i'm a CAS student looking to transfer into Wharton, all I need to do is take Math 104, Econ 001 and 002 and have a very high GPA? They don't look at my extracurriculars or the types of courses (econ based or humanities based) i'm taking?</p>

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<p>That is correct, ghu3.</p>

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<p>wow.... OLD THREAD!!
lol... 25/400... crazy.. do advisers actually tell us the "behind scene" of transfer admission:|</p>