What about St. Mark's?

oldprep · September 8, 2007, 5:19pm

I went to one of the larger New England boarding academies twenty years ago but when I revisited it last year I found that it had become rather impersonal and so highly competitive that I actually thought it would be detrimental to my childrens' college admissions prospects to attend such a pressure-cooker. Instead, I looked at all the St. Grottlesex schools and the other old-line boarding schools. St. Paul's I worried about because of the scandals; St. George's struck me as not serious. Groton I liked but worried as well about a couple of scandals over the last ten years. To my surprise, because I hadn't heard of it except in old Doonesbury cartoons, I came away most impressed by St. Mark's of Southborough. It's got a great faculty, a wonderful atmosphere, a fantastic campus, and yet -- to my surprise -- it seems less hard to get into than its peer schools. This was odd to me because by almost every historical definition it's one of the great American prep schools, and academic experts running from Digby Baltzell to the guys who wrote "Preparing for Power" (about modern prep schools) include it in their lists of the most elite boarding institutions. So why isn't St. Mark's popular? Is it just out of fashion these days or is there something else going on that I haven't heard about? I would love to hear why young people aren't fighting to get in the way they fight to get into St. George's and Middlesex. Pray tell.. please!

shelley14 · September 8, 2007, 5:43pm

Do a search for St. Mark's. From time to time there are posts on it. My daughter was accepted two years ago. We really liked the school - great math program and seemingly very solid academics. I actually thought she would end up there. But after revisit day we realized there would be little accomodation for her sport (figure skating). And, she really did not want to do the three team sports a year requirement. Except for that I think she would have been very happy there.

prepparent · September 8, 2007, 9:31pm

oldprep, there are many students wanting to attend SMS. I would not go by CC. I have a D at MX, you may want to look at it as well.

cate_intl · September 8, 2007, 9:50pm

I considered St. Mark's, but it doesn't offer much aid to internationals so I crossed it off my list. I'm sure a lot of people out there has SMS as their top choice. According to boardingschoolreview, its acceptance rate is 38%.

olivia567 · September 8, 2007, 11:51pm

BSR isn't very accurate, but I'm not going to challenge the percentage. I think Peterson's might be more correct if you try there. The only thing I find BSR useful for is student reviews.

cate_intl · September 9, 2007, 4:15am

ehh...yeah. But Peterson's doesn't have info about St. Mark's, last time I checked. I think even if BSR isn't very accurate, it's probably a close approximation.

oldprep · September 9, 2007, 12:46pm

That's right, there's not even a mention of St. Mark's in Petersons, which I find quite odd. It's as if the school doesn't market itself...

And that's my bigger point. Why are some schools -- and judging from the posts on board, those seem to be Hotchkiss, Choate, the Academies, and Groton -- "hot" in the eyes of today's future applicants, and other schools -- like St. Mark's, in particular, not fashionable? What makes a "hot" prep school these days? Is it size? College admissions? Relaxed rule structures? "Moderness?" Lots of sports? What's the key that makes two equally good schools have widely different levels of popularity?

prepparent · September 9, 2007, 12:55pm

IMO, CC future preps look at college matrics. This seems to be the most important. Big mistake imo. I do not think Groton is really that "hot". Groton only gets about 650 applications each year and for the most part, I keep reading that students are not happy and seem more stressed thn anything else. Interesting note about Groton, I recently read that 95% of seniors apply ED.

D#2 looked at SMS and seemed to like the school but ended up not applying. Two things changed her mind, the location of freshmen dorms and she felt the school needed to be "cleaned up". Hmm

Burb_Parent · September 9, 2007, 2:35pm

SMS is in petersons: <a href="http://www.petersons.com/pschools/code/instVC.asp?inunid=2092&sponsor=1%5B/url%5D">http://www.petersons.com/pschools/code/instVC.asp?inunid=2092&sponsor=1</a>
Some schools pay extra to provide more than the basic information, and their names come up first when a search is conducted. SMS only provides the basic info.
The majority of boarding/prep schools are overlooked on this board.

Lexima · September 9, 2007, 9:00pm

St. Mark's is high on my son's list along with other St. Grottlesex schools. He is interested in Latin and history so he likes schools with strong Classics and humanities programs.

As someone noted in a different thread, some viewbooks are very busy (and obviously targeting teenagers) while some are low-key but draw you in with compelling facts or beautifully written essays. Some don't put much effort into marketing at all, relying instead on campus visits.

It seems to me that among the boarding schools with high academic standards, the ones that market heavily (esp to students) attract many applicants and have lower admission rates. These schools are most frequently mentioned in CC (maybe they are seen as trophies by kids). The schools that rely more on quality and historical reputation may have a higher admission rate but maybe the applicant pool is more self-selected. I don't know.

Oldprep, I know grads of the large academies who, like you, think their children's college admission prospects will suffer by attending their pressure-cooker alma maters. I can think of a few where the family's legacy status with the colleges did not even help when the kids were applying from a very competitive pool.

oldprep · September 9, 2007, 9:22pm

Lexima, that's an interesting observation about the marketing issue. I've noted that some of the schools -- e.g. Deerfield -- have absolutely brilliantly conceived viewbooks. In comparison, St. Paul's is pedestrian, although well presented, and St. Mark's is downright dowdy, relatively speaking.

On your other point about college admissions, the "good old days" of semi-automatic admission to the Ivys for even just slightly-above-average boarding school graduates are clearly long gone. And personally, I think that's great, as it makes our kids work harder. But it certainly complicates the boarding school issue a lot. I appreciate everybody's insightful replies to my original question.

biffgnar · September 10, 2007, 9:59am

Please do not judge a school's desirability by how often it is mentioned on CC. Student posters here are a fairly small group and tend to self-select themselves into a short list of schools. There are many good schools that get very little mention on CC and which often can be the best fit for kids. That was the case with my D. When faced with a choice between some schools that get a lot of mention here and one which many CC posters would consider a notch (or two?) down (perhaps even from St. Marks), she chose the school which gets a lot less press here. My wife and I could also see that it was the best fit for her and were very happy with her choice.

ops · September 10, 2007, 1:52pm

St. Mark's is an excellent BS and don't let the CC chatter or lack thereof mislead you. As for popularity, I believe it really comes down to who you talk to. Many moons ago, everyone wanted to go to XXXXX, now all I hear is YYYYY. I say that what is "hot" is wherever your child decides on attending and he or she will talk it up to the end. Comes back to the right fit.

Inquiring_mind · September 19, 2007, 3:22pm

Yes, St. Mark's is a very good school. My son also found St. George's not serious enough, but did not think that way at all about SMS. It is a school that is in that hard to find, just below the most competitive admmissions but still very academic category and they seem to have a good healthy attitude.

We found in our admissions process that sometimes the schools that had the least fancy booklets were the ones that put the most human effort into our visits. Definitely worth a look. They do have a new head of school.

Also, I would be wary of ruling out schools because of "scandals." When less than savory things happen and are dealt with at respected places, they make the news because they sell. You will find misbehaving kids and adults everywhere, but at some places problems are kept more quiet or even worse overlooked.

D_yer_Maker · September 19, 2007, 3:31pm

The scandals that you DON'T hear about are the ones that are problematic. If a school is addressing the matter and dealing with it openly (as allowed by privacy laws) and holding itself accountable, then that's a PLUS, not a negative.

HOW schools address scandals is what's important to me.

liv_amp_learn · September 19, 2007, 9:42pm

I agree D'yer. I think it's important for schools to be open and accountable for what goes on. It's important for them to learn from those experiences and improve themselves. Sweeping things under the rug to save a reputation can cause a lot of problems and create a lack of trust.

erkybk · March 19, 2008, 8:12pm

THE FOLLOWING IS A BOARDING SCHOOL RANKING CONSIDERING sat, COLLEGE MATRICULATION, NUMBER OF AP CLASSES, ASSETS INCLUDING EMNDOWMENT PER STUDENT. THIS IS CALLED COMPOSITE RANK. I KNOW IT IS A CONTROVERSIAL TO INTRODUCE RANKING. BUT I HAPPENED TO GET THIS DATA FROM INTERNET. SAINT M ARK;S SCHOOL(SMS) IS RANKED AT 18
OUT OF TOTAL MORE TAN 330 BOARDING SCHOOLS. THAT IS ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD. I AM HEARING THAT SMS IS TRYING TO RETIRIEVE THE GLORY OF THE OLD DAYS AND THE NEW SCHOOL HEAD AND HIS STAFF ARE WORKING HARD TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY WILL BE ONE OF THE TOP BS SOONER OR LATER.

1
Phillips Exeter Academy

2
St. Paul's

3
Phillips Academy Andover

4
Groton School

5
Deerfield Academy

6
Choate Rosemary Hall

7
Hotchkiss School

8
Lawrenceville Academy

9
Milton Academy

10
St. Andrew School (DE)

11
Thacher School

12
Middlesex School

13
Peddie School

14
Taft School

15
Concord Academy

16
Cate School

17
Loomis Chaffee School

18
St. Mark's School

19
Westminster School

20
Emma Williard

21
Woodberry Forest School

22
Episcopal High School

23
Webb school (CA)

24
Miss Porter's School

25
Blair Academy

26
Mercersburg Academy

27
Asheville School

28
Hill School

29
Governor Dummer Academy

30
Brooks School

31
Northfield Mount Hermon

32
Pomfret School

33
Kent School

34
Tabor Academy

35
Suffield Academy

36
Cranbrook Schools

37
Stevenson School

38
Western Reserve Academy

39
Portsmouth Abbey School ( C)

40
Williston Northampton School

41
Santa Catalina School ( C)

42
George School

43
Masters School

44
Madeira School

45
St. James School

46
Westover School

47
Holderness School

48
Virginia Episcopal School

49
St. Catherine's School

50
Salisbury School

51
Annie wright School

52
McCallie School

53
St. Stephen's Episcopal School

54
Kimball Union Academy

55
Berkshire School

56
Canterbury School ( C)

57
Cambridge School of Weston

58
Lawrence Academy

59
Gunnery

60
Avon Old Farms School

61
Proctor Academy

62
Dana Hall

63
WESTTOWN

64
Worcester Academy

65
Culver Academy

66
Baylor School

67
Fountain Valley School of Colorado

68
Mount Michael Benedictine (C )

69
Rabun Gap-Nacoochee School

70
Cushing Academy

71
Ethel Walker School

72
Stony Brook School

73
Wyoming Seminary

74
Millbrook School

75
Lake Forest Academy

76
Tilton School

77
Brewster Academy

78
Wilbraham & Monson Academy

79
Trinity-Prawling School

80
New Hampton School

81
Putney School

82
Hun School

83
Foxcroft School

84
Darlington School

85
Shattuck-St. Mary's School

86
St. Timothy's School

87
Christ School

88
Webb school (TN)

89
Wayland Academy

90
St. John's Prepatory School (c )

91
Kiski

92
Purnell School

93
Blue Ridge School

94
Villanova Prepatory School ( c )

95
Hawaii Prepatory Academy

96
Vermont Academy

97
Kents Hill School

98
Gould Academy

99
Stoneleigh-Burnham School

100
Walnut Hill School

101
Subiaco Academy (c )

102
Colorado Rocky Mountain School

103
Hebron Academy

104
Chirstchurch School

105
Chapel Hill-Chauncy Hall School

106
St. Bernard Prep ( c)

107
St. Stanislaus College Prep ( c)

108
Girard College

109
Andrews School

110
Northwood School

erkybk · March 19, 2008, 8:26pm

This is another ranking list obtained from different source. This ranking considered SAT, endowment/student, #of AP class, # of sports class,

<h1>of extracurricular activities, boarding percentage, student to faculty ratio,</h1>

percentage of the faculty who have advanced degree(MS, PHd), # of students per class, and history(how long ago it was founded).
SMS is ranked at 12.

<ol>
<li> Phillips Exeter Academy, NH</li>
</ol>