What about the second generation?

<p>This is something I have been pondering a lot, especially with the horror stories of these kids with fab scores and great grades being rejected everywhere. I'd like to hear some comments, or at least vent a bit.</p>

<p>My H and I attended MIT and Bates on merit-we were first generation, lower middle class who were recognized for our academic achievements, and have gone on to be successful, but not rich or powerful. That actually makes our children at a disadvantage for being accepted at colleges of the caliber we attended.</p>

<p>We didn't make enough money(nor have the desire) for our kids to attend private schools, prep courses, expensive camps, private lessons, etc. Our kids had to contribute to our household, and held mundane jobs like babysitting their younger siblings, paper routes, and cutting lawns.We thought that Boy Scouts, the science fair, sports, great grades and test scores would be enough to show their merits. We really had no idea that this is no longer a viable strategy for people in our income group and social class-comfortable, but not rich.</p>

<p>Now that our sons are at Midd-where our oldest squeezed in off the wait-list and our younger son is a recruited athlete-we hear from them how ultra-wealthy and well-connected many of their fellow classmates are, and that they both feel incredibly lucky to be there. They actually have said they would consider sending their own kids to prep school to improve their chances!</p>

<p>So my point is, that in a global market, where the Chinese are paying upwards of $10,000 to have their kids "packaged" for US colleges, and the best and brightest from every continent want to go to the same 50 schools, what can middle class Americans do to get their kids educated and connected enough to be influential on the world of the future? Will there be any ordinary smart kids admitted to the HYPs of the next generation??</p>

<p>I'm interested to hear what others think about this.</p>

<p>HYP aren’t for the ordinary smart kids. They aren’t for the ordinary anybody. They are for the extraordinary. </p>

<p>There are, and will continue to be in the future, plenty of good schools for ordinary smart kids to go to.</p>

<p>I guess by ordinary, I mean brought up in an “ordinary” way.</p>

<p>Lots of people who are very influential on the world didn’t attend HYPS - it’s not a requirement. Aside from that, not everyone admittied to HYPS comes from a well connected family or spends $10K to have their kids packaged for it. Somehow, others manage to get accepted.</p>

<p>Honestly, you just do the best you can within your means and desires to best prepare and enable your kids and then it’s a combination of how well they were enabled (which doesn’t always mean $$$), how well they themsleves performed, and a certain luck of the draw as to where they’ll be accepted.</p>

<p>And people realize that attending HYPSM isn’t a stamped ticket to success and that not attending one of them doesn’t mean one can’t succeed.</p>

<p>I guess by ordinary, I mean brought up in an “ordinary” way.</p>

<p>My kids are first gen college.
It is only a slight boost for extra selective colleges because there are so many of them out there.
Our kids did similar school year activities to your kids & were accepted to all the schools they applied- the difference seems to be, we looked for good fits- stats & financially.</p>

<p>Harvard is not full of extraordinary kids. It is a mix that includes students who may be immature, may drink, may not be motivated, may be depressed, etc.etc., just like any other campus.</p>

<p>I know from experience that students brought up in an “ordinary” way do add to the mix and are admitted. “Ordinary” can be quite refreshing, and would seem to indicate authenticity, a big plus in this day and age of packaged applicants.</p>

<p>There’s always room at the top.</p>

<p>I am a physician and my husband is an academic at a top 50 LAC.
You & your spouse have made a huge jump from being first gen- to prestigious well paying careers.</p>

<p>Congratulations, but I am not sure why you think your kids should get an acceptance boost for it.</p>

<p>I like what compmom had to say, that there’s room for ordinary kids at great schools. My own philosophy is that parents should treat their kids as kids, not science experiments. </p>

<p>OP, there’s no cause for regret. No matter where your kids land, they’ll be authentic. That’s worth a lot.</p>

<p>I agree with ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad’s comment in posting #4. Well said!!</p>

<p>I think what you’re seeing is a preference for small liberal arts colleges among students who attended elite private high schools. </p>

<p>Universities attract a different mix of students, including a substantial group that avoids liberal arts colleges because they don’t want to study liberal arts or don’t like the idea of going to a college that may be smaller than their (public) high school.</p>

<p>My daughter just graduated from Cornell, which is roughly equivalent to Middlebury in terms of academic caliber, but a very different world in terms of size, environment, and students’ interests. At Cornell, students majoring in the liberal arts are in the minority and ultra-wealthy students are few and far between. If there is a dominant socioeconomic level, it is that of your family (and mine), and if there is a dominant population on campus, it is “ordinary smart kids,” most of whom went to public schools.</p>

<p>My oldest was brought up in the ordinary way, but did extraordinary things at a very young age. (Reading at 3, programming at 7.) All we did was provide the materials for his interests, but he went to public schools, with a few targeted camps in middle school. He got into H, but chose to attend a different school.</p>

<p>My younger son is smart, but not nearly as precocious. I think he feels there’s a little too much wealth at Tufts.</p>

<p>I think both kids did fine with their public school education. They had very similar admissions results as their cousins who attended private schools.</p>

<p>I’m a little perplexed at how you are concerned that your kids are at a disadvantage in going to the kinds of schools you and H did – when indeed they ARE going to a school of that caliber. They got into one of the top 5 LACs even with a “normal” upbringing and without fancy schmancy lessons, etc. I don’t see the point being made.</p>

<p>

Middle class Americans have produced influential thinkers, writers, entrepreneurs, leaders, etc., since there’s been an American middle class. As ucsc<em>ucla</em>dad said above, HYPS on the resume is not a pre-requisite for success. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t worry about the packaging so much - adcoms usually spot the difference between that and genuine talent and intellectual potential.</p>

<p>What I do worry about for my 3rd-generation-college grandchildren (who have yet to make an appearance) is how their parents will pay for those educations. As a donut hole family, we have had to pinch hard to fund college. My kids are good savers, hard workers, and will make their kids’ educations a priority. But if the tuition bubble doesn’t burst soon, I don’t know how the next generation will afford it.</p>

<p>Our kids went to public high schools, got very good grades (but not val or sal), had good test scores (but not 2200+), pursued normal extracurriculars. They each got in to several top 10 LACs - they had no interest in the Ivys or big Us. Although there are many upper-middle class and wealthy private school kids at top schools, there are plenty who aren’t.</p>

<p>Like others, I am more worried about future generations affording college than in getting accepted.</p>

<p>I’m getting a bit philosophical here but from your original post you want your children to be influential in the world and well connected but you decided, by your own admission, not to follow that path. How then do those values get transferred if neither the example nor expectation is set?
My guess is you were raised with great aspirations in order to achieve your education levels coming from modest backgrounds.<br>
Being smart is a good start but not the only ingredient.</p>

<p>The reality is that most people who go to prestigious colleges in the Northeast end up leading pleasant but fairly ordinary lives after college. I think that if ambitious people really knew just how ordinary most alums of these places are, they would get a reality check. Don’t worry about it.</p>

<p>Amen, njsue</p>

<p>OP,
“what can middle class Americans do to get their kids educated and connected enough to be influential on the world of the future? Will there be any ordinary smart kids admitted to the HYPs of the next generation??”
-I belive that we are middle class and my own D. fits into category of “ordinary smart kids”. She has never had single “B” in her entire life, graduated #1 from private prep. HS, graduated Summa Cum Laude (Phi Betta Kappa, numerous awards, recognitions) from college and starting Med. School in 5 weeks. Her path was to go to state school on full tuition Merit scholarships. She saved us lots of $$ and we are willing to support her financially thru Med. School. She never understood why people are so desparate about HYP, Ivy, Elite schools in general, but choose to go to top 20 Med. School (she had choices). She is well connected already because of her hard working ethic and previous experiences both at HS and UG. She hopes that her connections and reputation will help her to gain position at one of the best Medical clinics in the world which is related to her future Medical School.<br>
D. has been advised by HS conselor and pre-med advisor at her UG to apply to Ivy’s, including H. She did not have any desire, instead she has always relied on her hard working attitude. It has worked so far. We are praying to keep our jobs for at least 4 more years. I do not want her to have loans.</p>

<p>“where the Chinese are paying upwards of $10,000 to have their kids “packaged” for US colleges”</p>

<p>This may make a good sound bite, but many of the US upper and upper-middle families have been doing “packaging” for decades. Some private consultants here charge upward $50K and their business seems to be thriving. </p>

<p>Most competitive US colleges have quotas for international students, just as quotas for many other categories. There will always be seats for middle class and first generations. The fact that the supper competitive schools getting more and more applications is due to a combination of increase in awareness, heavier recruitment, and general inflation of educational credentials… </p>

<p>And while the American middle class was much more homogenous a few decades ago, now it is much more diverse. There are new entrants of African, Asian, and Hispanic Americans, and others. It may be getting harder for certain groups, but easier (or at least possible) for others. </p>

<p>I also agree that attending certain schools may help, but does not determine the success of the students, and this does not even take into account the very different ways of defining success</p>