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<p>I still am not sure how you’re asserting “this is no longer a viable strategy” when your children got into Midd in the last few years.</p>
<p>“Ordinary smart kids” going to MIDD with the offspring of the mega rich and connected who sent their kids to prep schools=ordinary smart kid now being one of them by association. Isn’t that the assumption here at CC? So, you did it! Now, you get to see if it is really true- your kids being lifted by their wealthy, connected peers. Personally, I think this is faulty thinking. You have to be wealthy to roll with the wealthy, especially after college. The only direct way I have seen this happen for ordinary smart kids is to marry into it or make their own wealth. Otherwise, after college everyone goes back to their own social/economic group, and the circle continues with a few exceptions of course, but not enough to get upset about. </p>
<p>One benefit of the elite schools is the internships offered. I seems it is much easier for these kids from the top schools to get access to truly meaningful internships, which often leads to employment at a very good company. This is true for the ordinary smart kids at these schools, not just the rich, connected kids. This one benefit does give the ordinary smart kid a boost. But, it is just a boost. Not enough to justify 200,000 debt for the ordinary smart kid or family.</p>
<p>"One benefit of the elite schools is the internships offered. "</p>
<p>-Internships are offerred absolutely everywhere. D. got awesome Med. School Research Lab one that lasted for several years, gave her opportunity to write grant proposal and receive 2 of them and present findings. All it took was email to person in charge and light interview. D. went to state UG. Later, prof. in charge nominated her for Phi Betta Kappa, worked perfectly. She had tons of various opportunities at her state school some of which she had to turn down because of time commitment to others. As I have mentioned, she got connections as of now…because she has connected herself, no help from us in this area.</p>
<p>MiamiDap- and next I wrote “it seems it is a lot easier…” Of course there are internships everywhere, but the quality, quantity, access and alum sponsor’s seem to be plentiful for almost all at the elite institutions. In fact, Stanford has in recent years started pressing internships for soph. summer and junior summer because of the unfortunate trend in the past years of many of their graduates not finding career tract jobs after graduations. NOT what they are selling at Stanford. It’s suppose to be the golden ticket, remember? </p>
<p>Hooray for your D MiamiDap- glad you can share her great fortune, however, many posters report their college students can’t find internships OR part time jobs in the summer. And it is not because these kids are not good students.</p>
<p>And before I get the “show your evidence”- my evidence is from parents of students at Stanford right now who are getting paid jobs in NYC, flown out for interviews and in addition to the salary, their students housing is provided. Now, this is open to all who apply and are invited to interview, but in this one company the student and every other student had an alum advocating for them. Together the alum and student competed for the job. The parents are thrilled their student won the prize internship. Possible next step is job offer by December- This to me is a major advantage of attending an elite. It is not all merit, no matter how much the middle class wants to make it so. Footnote- family on full aid at Stanford, came from upper middle class suburban High School, kid got Stanford through sports, now family house in foreclosure, more kids in high school to educate. So not the dream it may seem, at least to some of us, but that is not how the family views it.</p>
<p>Ok, gotta love a post about living an ordinary life! I really love living one, and on some level truly don’t understand the burning desire by so many people to get into the same schools (except, of course, for the fact that they give great aid with no and minimal loan packages - that I get). </p>
<p>The richest man I know personally never went to college. He started a trucking company. He is the most generous person I know, too. He’s a patron of the arts and a big supporter of just about every charity in town. He’s influential in more than just this corner of the world, and he didn’t need a big name school to get it. Sure, he’s the exception. But if you ask how a kid can make an impact without the brand name school, I’d say through hard work and generosity. And the latter is perhaps more important that the former.</p>
<p>What happen later is not a function of the name of UG that you went. I am not even advocating one type of school over another. If one is accepted to the very top and family has unlimited resources, and some of them do not even worry too much about future job opportunites, why not? Go for it. However, this thread is NOT about this type of families. It is about middle class who worries about sending their kids to HYP. So, here I am saying, this it is artificially created worry!. Worry about health, jobs, current bills to pay,…whatever and send your kid to school that first, he can get into and second you can afford and third, make sure he knows what to do there at his college, so that the opportunites will be looking for him, not the other way. My own D. was not fortunate or lucky or priviliged, she has worked very hard and her state school presented her with opportunities. It will happen to every single kid who is going to put forward effort, who was not told that going to top school will assure his success, who has developed self-relience, believing that hard work will assure his success, not the name of his UG…</p>
<p>I really appreciate everyone’s comments. I agree with most of them, just wanted to hear what others thought.</p>
<p>I think that having students from many diverse backgrounds is a good thing.</p>
<p>I actually don’t expect my children to get or deserve an admissions “boost”, but my comment is more philosophical. Is there still a meritocracy in this country, or is it really all more and more about the money, world-wide as we go global.</p>
<p>And this goes with other posts about whether college coaches, elite camps, etc. are “worth it” or actually necessary in this environment.
(HYP was meant to stand for “selective colleges”).</p>
<p>OlympicLady is right on the money - I have an experience that would match a decade of Harvard. By some freak whim of the Gods of Finance I live in a neighborhood where the ‘elites’ live without being an elite myself. By high school none of the elite kids go to the (first or second in the state) public high school. We barely know what our elite neighbors in the McMansion next door look like. They live at a different Riemann plane for those of you who got 820 on the Math SAT… Likewise, their kids disengage the Hoi Polloi kids friendships once they hit high school.</p>
<p>Going from a blue collar back ground to what most people would consider upper middle class in one generation is pretty upwardly mobile.
Having parents with that background gave your boys a huge advantage for their future.
However it will be up to them what to make of it.
I doubt that " elite" camps & such would have given them any additional advantage, as kids who go to Hotchkiss & Andover end up at the same colleges that they are attending.</p>
<p>OldbatesieDoc: I’m completely baffled by your opening statement. On one hand you send your children to LAC over state universities but on the other hand you have problem with parent sending their children to private K-12 schools and categorized that as packaging.</p>
<p>Can you elaborate what’s the purpose of sending your children to LAC over state universities and how that is different from parent sending their children to private schools over the public schools?</p>
<p>I don’t quite see the question the op posed.</p>
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<p>Um… That’s their job to figure out. Why it has to be parents? Being educated is a life long endeavor, I would think. You’re MIT graduate. Pretty elite but I don’t get the sense that you are rich and influential they way you envisioned in your post. So then, why worry about getting into elite schools?</p>
<p>D1 is still very close with her private school friends (K-12). She and her best friend from high school will be roommates come Aug. We know the girl’s family very well and we have known her since she was a little girl. Most of D1’s high school friends have jobs in NYC, whereas many of her college friends are still looking.</p>
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was this posted somewhere by the OP and then removed? It was quoted or referenced by a poster or 2, but I cant find the original line. Assuming it was first stated by the OP, it makes perfect sense that the OP appreciates the unique opportunities afforded by the LAC environment, since her DH teaches at one, and perhaps they might even live on or very near campus. </p>
<p>And nowhere did the OP say she had a “problem” with parents sending kids to private school. She said they couldn’t really afford it and didn’t have the personal desire to do so. Don’t see anything confusing. Just see the standard lament that kids growing up in what may have been considered “average/traditional” middle class lives face stiff competition in today’s college application environment. That said, both fared well, are at Midd, and one was a recruited athletes, so is more than just "average?</p>
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<p>Here the OP clearly stated - </p>
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<p>That’s completely different, POIH. She is not talking about private school.</p>
<p>I find the whole thread rather odd, though – queries about “whether it’s necessary” when the poster didn’t do these things and her kids got into a top LAC. Well, obviously they weren’t necessary, then. The whole thesis doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>Exactly right, pizzagirl. The $10k “packaging” of students" has to do with using high priced college consultants to present the student in their application
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<p>A college consultant might suggest somewhere along the line, if they were consulted early, that a family consider private school for a student. But it has nothing to do with the overall concept of “packaging” and nowhere did the OP say she had a problem with kids going to private school. She just didnt choose it for her kids (for primary/secondary school)</p>
<p>Hmmmm. The thread is a little off, I agree. I shouldn’t start threads late at night. I really didn’t express myself very clearly, and my kids DID get into a good school, so “end of story”.</p>
<p>But these musings come on top of the recent NYT articles on Amherst College’s economic diversity policy <a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/business/economy/25leonhardt.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/business/economy/25leonhardt.html</a> and another article about how the newly rich Chinese are paying coaches to get their children into top US schools.<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/business/global/30college.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/business/global/30college.html</a>
So in another 5 or 10 years, will there be any spots left for these kids? And if they aren’t part of the “upper echelon” of decision makers in our country, will our country still reflect the values of the middle class?
Like it or not, our last 5 presidents all attended “highly selective” HYP schools…</p>
<p>OBD – I think I hear where you’re coming from, but I think your premise is what I will call CC blinded. I see plenty of familiar names on this thread and most of us are probably sending our kids to these “same 50 schools” you’re talking about. We like to talk this selective college game - we’ve become interested in this whole process for our kids. But, IMO, just because it matters to us here on CC, doesn’t mean it REALLY matters. It matters here and it matters at my kids uber elite (read: expensive) prep school, but it doesn’t matter a whit amongst my physician specialist colleagues or amongst the fortune 500 execs who live in my 'hood.
You speak of these kids with ‘fab test scores and amazing grades getting rejected everywhere’ – I say baloney! They get accepted to a lot of really stupendous schools if they just open their eyes and look beyond the usual suspects that everyone wants to talk about. IMO I don’t believe these schools have special powers. At most they are a “hook” for success in life. And just as only a fraction of great athletes, URMs, legacies or development cases gets into HYPS only a fraction of HYPS grads find success on a grand level. I believe most of the grads from these schools we hold in such ridiculously high esteem lead lives that are little different from the bright, hardworking focused kids that graduated from Big State U or St. Somewhere. It’s the talented, bright, hard working part of the equation that matters. All Harvard acceptance means is that you probably kicked butt between the ages of 14-17. BFD! If you’re still doing it at 30, 40, 50 years old then that’s something.
Meritocracy exists. The persistent application of talent, focus, hard work and good decision making will be rewarded – I just think we just have to remind our kids that it won’t necessarily happen in the form of a fat envelope from a really fancy college and that education is a means not an end.</p>
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<p>Good heavens, you aim high! I’d be happy if my kids were educated, able to support themselves and their families and be happy, productive adults. I don’t think everyone has to be influential on the world stage. There’s plenty of work to be done in our families, neighborhoods, local towns and cities.</p>
<p>I was raised in a lower middle class family and was able to attend college by getting a generous scholarship to a local university and living at home. H and I paid for our own post-graduate schooling and were able to jump up a couple of notches on the socio-economic ladder. </p>
<p>But I agree that whereas my parents didn’t worry about how to pay for college because they didn’t have money (first gen), H and I are in a much different situation when it comes to paying for college for our kids (second gen). We knew that it would be on our shoulders to come up with a plan.</p>
<p>And that’s the way it should be…I’m grateful for the leg up, society–but we can take it from here.</p>
<p>What can middle class Americans do to get their kids educated and connected enough to be influential on the world of the future?</p>
<p>Think outside the box.
This organization was founded by a girl from Seattle when she was * 11*.
[Richard’s</a> Rwanda IMPUHWE | Bonding girl to girl, building peace, and looking into the window of Rwanda to empower the future leaders of the world](<a href=“http://www.richardsrwanda.org/]Richard’s”>http://www.richardsrwanda.org/)
They just got a matching grant from the Paul Allen Foundation. For a girl who hasn’t graduated from high school yet ( inner city public, at that ), she seems pretty influential to me.
:)</p>