what are good things about wake forest compared to other schools?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Wake Forest University
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<p>i didn't mean to insinuate that one must be shallow to love wake. though, those who are less shallow and materialistic may find the material excess and overall pretentiousness abrasive. </p>

<p>also, keep in mind that not everyone has medical school potential, and despite your satisfaction with the bio department, other departments admittedly participate in grade deflation and many divisional classes are unnecessarily difficult. i've maintained a GPA between 2.95-3.05 with a major GPA a couple points higher, so I've done fairly well. I just know that for the same amount of work, it would be much higher at a school with similar repute that doesn't encourage its professors to round down. </p>

<p>lastly, i agree with your last point that individual taste and expectations will largely determine one's experience. as long as you don't go into it thinking its the best kept secret in academia, and your expectations are informed and realistic, you should be fine. if you don't want to deal with some of the b.s. i've described, then consider some other options in your search.</p>

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<p>i also encourage potential students to view student newspapers online to get a feel for the issues and priorities of varying campuses. its much more informed than boards like this considering one gets attacked when their views differ from the regular posters.</p>

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<p>"if anyone questions my "sour" posts, look at the immaturity and frat-tastic attitudes on display at juicycampus dot com."</p>

<p>Oh please -- citing Juicy Campus is immature in itself. Agree with ginnyvere -- you can find these posts about every school on that website.</p>

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<p>So true. And one can quite often simply change the campus name at the top of school newspapers and have many of the very same issues.</p>

<p>Money is NOT the root of all evil at Wake or anywhere else. But it may be fair to say that certain elitist attitudes and wasteful, materialistic behaviors which its over-supply can and sometimes does foster, may be.</p>

<p>And the same can be said for attitudes of envy, anger, jealousy, allowing oneself to feel like a 2nd class person because he has fewer zeroes in the check book or a lower limit on his charge card or a '95 Ford Taurus with 147K miles on the odometer vs. a new Jeep softop or Beamer, and destructive and derogatory finger-pointing can be equally as ugly, diminishing, and useless.</p>

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<p>hahaha, juicy campus is a joke. most of the people I know post "[insert expletive] geed" as a joke. Sure Greek life is big deal and I know that it makes your life easier, but it is not a necessity. I do fine (I'd like to think) socially and I'm not in a frat. You just can't have a condescending attitude towards those that are in a frat or a sorority. </p>

<p>Concerning materialistic, conservatives who are rich, I also disagree. Personally, I love Hillary, am about as anti-materialistic as you can be, and am taking a bunch of loans to even go here. Furthermore, I know many people here who are similar to me in those respects. </p>

<p>Other departments being hard? Biology is perhaps the hardest department. I don't buy that the school is too hard. I have only taken one class where I felt that I was being unrealistically evaluated. If you work hard the good grades will come, sure they might not be 4.0's or 3.9's or anything like that, but a 3.4-3.5 is reasonable and admirable. </p>

<p>Sure Wake is not a perfect place, but I really do think it part of it is having a good attitude.</p>

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<p>my son would pass the caucasion test, but he’d fail the ‘money card’, and while not the Princeton Eating Club social stigmatizing, he would suffer at WF, better he attend a school with more economic diversity, ie scholarship students. Thank you for your posts, even tho you were knocked for being ‘sour grapes’, your posts are illuminating. We’ll save the admission fee on this one.</p>

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<p>corneliasusie, notice that this discussion is from 2008! Before your son rules out applying to WF, you might want to try posting a current thread on the topic.</p>

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<p>Corneliasusie, I completely agree with siliconvalleymom. Wake Forest (and every other school) change over time so what is valid in 2008 might not be valid in 2013. I’m an accepted ED student for the Class of 2017, and everyone I’ve talked to at Wake today is thrilled with their decision to go to Wake. Actually, my dad is also a Wake grad ('85). We went to homecoming and I could not count the number of people that he knew that came up to him, and congratulated me and said that I would love Wake Forest. Though you don’t get the brand recognition of many top institutions that doesn’t mean that Wake isn’t a top tier school. You go to Wake to be a part of a tight knit community. And maybe Wake Forest does have some affluent students, but what top private school doesn’t? With top private schools costing in the range of 55-60,000 dollars a year, the students there are often going to be of a wealthier background. But that doesn’t mean that their aren’t modest students that fit in. On my Wake Forest tour, I had a guide who was a first generation Hispanic student, who had to have most of his education paid for, through grants and loans by the college, he seemed to have no issue assimilating into campus, and from what he said, Wake seems to do a great job with financial aid! Greek Life might play a larger role on campus than at some other schools, but note, the MAJORITY of students are still independent. At least check about 40% of students are pledged. That means there are plenty of opportunities for non-Greek students on campus. But besides those objections, I chose Wake for it’s size. The only school that can come close to doing what Wake is doing in research at the size of Wake Forest, is Rice, I’m from North Carolina, and I find NC much more appealing than Texas. And diversity is more than skin deep. That was what the Wake Forest essay was on this year. Though I’m an African-American, I did not linger on the fact that I’m in a racial minority group but I did discuss how experiences I have had would add to the Wake Forest community. Don’t think bad about a school based on one person’s opinion. There are "BadNews"s at every school in the country. And note, Wake has a very high retention rate at 94%. Look at the facts.</p>

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<p>I’ll be the contrarian here. There is an adage that is oh, so accurate. CHANGING a college or university is like trying to turn an aircraft carrier in the middle of the Missouri River. It doesn’t happen often and never quickly. </p>

<p>And when one looks at the history of institutions and the higher education industry more generally, the real issues of change are few and far between.</p>

<p>Wake experienced one of those some 35 years ago when it bailed out on the Southern Baptist Convention when the brothers wanted them to return an NSF grant used to build a greenhouse. Essentially the issue was one of values and more specifically evolution vs. Creationism. When that happened, the student body size, construct, diversity changed. Furthermore, an already fine academic institution became more secular and more mainstream. They were able to raise more money and become a somewhat more national institution vs. a predominantly NC school. It’s law school became less focused on preparing Andy Griffith type attorneys and more geographically dispersable barristers. The med school went from being separate in name and spirit … Bowman Grey … to WFU Med School and a much more credible, validated institution. The campus began some transformation that continues. And btw, it was the campus re-location and essentially master-planned back in the late 40’s and early 50s, compliments of the tobacco kings, R.J. Reynolds that REALLY initiated WFU’s transformation … some nearly 70 years ago. (Isn’t that ironic for modern-day do-gooder academics! And Duke is not any different.) </p>

<p>So what’s the real point? WFU is a vastly different, far more elitist and secular place today than it was in the late '70s. It’s not and likely never will be Duke or Davidson or UNC. But then Elon, down the road will never be a Wake or Furman or W&L. They’re all good.</p>

<p>Conversely, it is NOT much different than it was in 2008. That is laughable and at least naive, if not ignorant. </p>

<p>WFU is a fine place, and gaining in prestige and “quality”, at least by secular academic standards. The campus has and continues to go thru a major overhaul. The basketball fervor has been watered-down, thanks to a watered-down ACC and no mo’ tobacco road. Football’s gotten better. Yes it is changing, at a similar pace to turning the USS Harry Truman in its drydock. VERY slowly. </p>

<p>And imo, MUCH of the pablum here is simplistic perception. That Hispanic tour guide? Not random at all. But as college admissions schemers throughout the land know, suckers are born every moment. More “genteelly” noted, youth is impressionable. </p>

<p>Learn to know what you’d like to learn about campuses. Figure out what the real questions are that will lead to insightful responses of value for you and those things are important. And come to realize that institutions don’t merit our worship. It’s a business deal. What will you really get for the mass of cash dear ol’ daddy will dole over. </p>

<p>What many mostly fail to recognize is that in many regards, a lower-end Duke admit would have been far better off being a middle of the roader at Wake. Or that a low-end Wake Forest admit would have been far better off being a star/stud at Elon. Great professors, the guts of the matter, strive to teach to the “middle” of their pedagogical prodigy. And those middle masses are sorely different at each of these places and among each of these niches of higher education.</p>

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<p>@WhistlePig</p>

<p>I think that a lot of what you say is simply an opinion. Some schools change faster than others do… I think that a smaller school is more susceptible to change than a larger one would be.</p>

<p>The one thing I wanted to comment on is your comment about Davidson. I’m pretty sure that it is somewhat widely accepted that Wake is a more prestigious school than Davidson is. Same with UNC - although UNC is rated slightly better than Wake is, they are VERY similar-level schools academically. However, another point - the education given at Wake, Davidson, Duke, Vanderbilt, W&L, etc – it isn’t all that different. All are top-notch educations. </p>

<p>I wanted to agree vehemently about your last point; in many cases, going to a school where one can thrive is a great idea (although, with the grading system at Wake, I’m not sure that a middle-of-the-road student at Wake would be equal to a low-end student at Duke…). </p>

<p>Wanted to reiterate this point:
“Learn to know what you’d like to learn about campuses. Figure out what the real questions are that will lead to insightful responses of value for you and those things are important.”</p>

<p>Yes.</p>

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<p>pinkcupcake … Allow me to clarify one over-riding point … of course mine is opinion. Just like all of yours is yours. And others’ theirs, as well. All of what we write and read on this forum is “opinion.” It’s what you and I think we think.</p>

<p>We’re all entitled to our opinions, but all opinions do not carry equal weight. Some are simply wind, wishful thinking, ax-grinding, vane attempts to portray oneself as informed, and more. Others are based in substance, research, experience, knowledge-based info, observation, etc. Together, they won’t provide “the truth”, but they can begin to expose some of it. Remember, in the end, this is simply a beauty contest. Where one might see you as gorgeous, others don’t see it at all. Trust me, none would describe me as such, btw. :eek: </p>

<p>And so with all respect due, I’ll stand behind my “opinions” and encourage you to do some substantive research that goes beyond reading the Princeton Review or Fiske’s or the promo for those places you’ve determined merit your perception of impressive or otherwise or going on a PR campus tour or talking with a student who wants her decision to attend Duke to be affirmed by your doing the same. I’m confident you’ll discover some new, perhaps more valid conclusions about this interesting subject matter when you determine to ask tough questions and demand validation that goes beyond someone’s … opinion.</p>

<p>I’ll not bother to validate my own background, credibility, or lack there of. While it would serve to lend disparate weight to my opinions, then I’d have to charge for my services to you. In your ignorance of that, you’re free to accept or reject my contributions without paying a single cent. Consider it a gift you might not be able to afford.</p>

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<p>y’all stop arguing. I highly doubt anyone is making their final college choice based on the views of anonymous internet warriors.</p>

<p>I go to Wake, I love it. WhistlePig doesn’t like it. Big whup. Difference of opinion.</p>

<p>Get over it and move on, folks.</p>

<p>Go Deacs.</p>

33

<p>Wake is a better school than Carolina. It’s not close. </p>

<p>Wake alum tend to stick together and you’ll get contacts at some of the best firms in the world. No job will turn you down because “you only went to Wake Forest.” If you do well and want to go to grad school, you can pick your school. I have friends that went to Harvard Law, Yale Law, Wharton, etc and didn’t think they were exceptional at Wake. Wake places students at Goldman, BOA, KKR, JPM, Stephens, etc. etc. etc.</p>

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<p>As a current student, I’d like to quickly chip in my 2 cents about this discussion. I attended Wake on a whim - am a first generation high school graduate and was fortunate enough to receive one of major merit scholarships that Wake offers. Before the scholarship offer, Wake was the last school that I applied to (had free application waivers). </p>

<p>So, about Wake changing or not over the last couple years…it is a most definitely has. As a senior, the student body has gotten significantly less “preppy” and southern and much more diverse - mainly in the racial/ethnic category. Other forms of the diversity that has increased is from religious and sexual/gender identity. When I came to Wake, it was very much a taboo to be openly out (especially in Greek life) and now, I know several out men and women in multiple Greek organizations. A traditionally “southern and conservative” fraternity recently gave a bid to an openly gay rushee.</p>

<p>I would argue that the Wake Forest from 2008 and the Wake Forest in 2013 have changed in some significant ways, and some ways have stayed relatively the same.</p>

<p>Wake is much less southern, conservative, and preppy than before. Most students are still pretty straight-laced, but it doesn’t seem like every student walked out of a J. Crew/L.L. Bean catalouge anymore.</p>

<p>Wake is still very wealthy, perhaps even more now than before. When I applied at Wake, it advertised itself as need-blind - not anymore. If one comes from a modest background, it is not hard to fit in; however, there will be times when a more limited budget can cause hurdles in regards to one’s social life. For example, many of my friends will want to dine in some decently pricey places (think $20-25 an entree) for a college student without realizing that it may not fit in everyone’s budget. </p>

<p>Wake students in general are still generally friendly and social, but also rather elitist when interacting with members of the greater W-S community. I doubt this is unique to Wake’s student body, but I can’t tell you the number of times W-S locals were shocked that I was a Wake student because I was “not snotty and arrogant”. Wake students still study very hard, and it seems the younger classes are even more academically inclined than the older students. Professors and the administration are very approachable and engaged. Professors here are probably the best thing about the education offered. Easily at least 90% of my professors have been great teachers, approachable, and very accommodating so that students can get the best education that is possible.</p>

<p>However, back to a slight negative - that student body is still not that intellectually-inclined. If your idea of college is to have a community of both students and professors that will engage with you with all types of intellectual discourse, this ain’t the best place. Students here care about their academics, but it’s more of a “Work hard, play hard” mentality. Outside of classes, most students will rather party, socialize, work out, etc than go get some coffee and talk about their latest intellectual curiosity. </p>

<p>Now, I’d like to end things about my experience of Wake’s “prestige and name brand” - specifically with job recruitment. Sorry guys, but I have to respectfully disagree. Most biz firms have heard of Wake, but we are definitely not the same tier as UVA/Georgetown/UMich and other schools we are ranked closely to. For management consulting, none of the top strategy firms (McKinsey, Bain, and Boston Consulting Group) do much recruiting for Wake student. Most bulge bracket investment banking firms do very light recruiting too. We do get Deloitte Consulting, Wells Fargo Securities, Big 4, GE, Pepsi and etc. </p>

<p>Compared to the schools we are ranked closely to, we are noticeably on a lower tier for recruitment by the top firms in the business world. If you are trying to find employment out in the west coast, it is even more dismal. </p>

<p>The lack of target recruitment, and the fact our grades are deflated relative to our peer institutions does hurt us in the job market. I have had to explain my GPA to recruiters many times, especially when I was interviewing against Duke/UNC/Vandy/Georgetown students who all had a 3.8-3.9. It is not impossible to have a very high GPA at Wake Forest, but it is less common that peer schools. Overall, most recruiters see Wake as a good school, but clearly a step below UVA and the like.</p>

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<p>Nice post wfu2013, thanks for taking the time to give us your perspective, much appreciated.</p>

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<p>Also, I’d argue and say that Wake is NOT definitively better than UNC. Looking at the enrolled student profile, the average Wake and UNC student is pretty similar. I think Wake may have slight edge, but is not significant like UNC vs Vandy or UNC vs Duke. From a job recruitment standpoint, I’d say most employers would put UNC students at the same level as a Wake students. If we’re talking about educational quality, that’s probably hard to argue either way. Wake is pretty much like a LAC in a university shell with the benefits and negatives of such, while UNC is a top large state school with the benefits and negatives of such as well.</p>

<p>Also, UNC’a large student body and close proximity to Duke affords them much better on-campus recruiting opportunities. The large student body helps out because if x firm only typically recruits the top 5% of WFU seniors and the top 5% of UNC seniors, well that ends up being like only 50 WFU students and more like 200+ UNC students that would be qualified. Plus, a lot of firms who come to Research Triangle to recruit Duke students can/will also go to UNC because it is conveniently located nearby. A lot of firms will not spend the significant funds to bring on-campus recruiters when the pool of applicants is rather small, and there no other close peer institution.</p>

<p>If you’re deciding on UNC vs WFU, let it be determined by culture fit, preference for large vs medium sized, cost, etc. </p>

<p>To be fair, Wake’s reputation has been steadily improving, to the point that Wake is where Vanderbilt was perhaps 20 years ago. Vanderbilt has only recently become ultra competitive and now its undergraduate program has both an elite regional and national reputation, and a very strong international one as well. 20 years ago, Vanderbilt was considered an elite southern institution with a fast growing national reputation (and a very strong east coast reputation). That’s where WFU is today, and I am sure the Administration is trying to get WFU to be the next “Vanderbilt” in terms of the prestige and reputation in the next 20 years.</p>