What are my chances of getting into Yale, Penn or Duke?

Chance Me / Match Me!
, , ,
1

Hello! I’m new here and I’m looking for some advice. I’m from Brazil and I’m going to apply next year. My dream schools are Yale, Penn and Duke (although I have just learned about LACs and started having a little crush on Williams small classes).
I wanted to know how good my profile is and what should I do in order to improve it, specially given that the pandemic hit it really hard here and from march 2020 to this month schools were closed.

So, firstly, about my background. I’m from Brazil, as I said. I’m white and I come not from a wealthy background (my father is a high school teacher and my mom works as a graphical designer) but still, considering the general economical conditions of my country, I can say that I’m really privileged to be born in this conditions.

About my academic profile: schools are different here from the US, so we don’t have APs or something like that (still there are Brazilians who get accepted into top US schools). The average GPA is also different in each school, because each one has a level of difficulty and a level of quality, which can both either be really high on really low, that depends a lot from the school. In general, I can say that I study in one of the best and hardest schools in my city (maybe in the country) and I’m one of the best ranked students in my class, considering my grades. Here we don’t exactly do school ranks (although they can exceptionally make it for me if I want to study abroad), but to be honest I’m kind of confident about my academic profile.

About my intended majors: I really like politics, philosophy, diplomacy and languages as subjects, so I think about majoring whether in International Relations or PPE (I like it better than polisci, although of course I like polisci as well) and probably minoring in philosophy or linguistics. Yale and Penn offer both majors, and Duke has program II so I could probably design something in order to study what I like there as well.

So now, about ECs and awards.
ECs:

  • I go to MUNs. I have been to around 15 so far (10 or 11 as delegate, 4 as chair) and I intend to go to at least 10 more before I graduate. I wanted to have attended more MUNs, but due to the pandemic most of them here were inactive.

  • I’m the lead member a project which is officially also a MUN (that makes me secretary-general), but given that my participation in it is different than my participation in MUNs, I consider it a different EC. We host a large number of high school students in the conference (around 300, and its last edition, being online, hosted more than 200 students from all over the country). It is, to me, a very special project because it’s not only a debating conference, but also an educational and a “philanthropist” one. We bring specialists in subjects such as History, Sociology and IR to give lectures to high school students, so they can learn, and we provide deeply researched study materials to our participants, which are made with the help from university students.
    We also raise money to donate to a vulnerable group and we try to engage people who attend the event to help them. Last year, we raised money to help venezuelan refugees, we produced and sold ecobags and donated the profit to them and, at least, we organized a large meal with foods they make (which is basically where they’re getting money during the pandemic). We also brought an indigena activist to talk to students about the difficulty of his people during the pandemic (the indigena population is one of the most vulnerable groups in the crisis here in my country), telling how they could help.
    One other thing we do is to host low-income delegates for free, which may seem obvious, but not many conferences here do.
    And last but not least, I tutored junior delegates to attend Yale Model United Nations online.
    I entered the project last september and I’m going to leave it on may 2022, which totalizes two editions of the event.

  • Every week, I volunteer for around three hours in a project where I teach french to students with no opportunity to pay for a language course (only 1% of the population speaks English fluently, so probably less than this speaks other languages). We also do activities related to the Sustainable Development Goals, in order to work political education.
    It’s been half a year since I’m in this project, and I intend to remain there until I graduate from high school.

  • I’m a german tutor in my school, so I help young kids with german (my school has a partnership with Pasch, which promotes german lessons, so we can have german classes here if we want to). Not sure if this should be considering the same EC as the previous one (being the EC just “tutoring”).

  • I attended a winter program in Germany to study German for three weeks there. I was one of 11 Brazilians selected to the program. I went there with another person from my school, which was also selected.

  • I’m the pianist of my school’s orchestra. The problem is that we haven’t played since the beginning of the pandemic, so I’m not sure if that’s a good EC. In the end of my high school, I’ll have participated in the orchestra during two years.

  • This one I haven’t started yet, but I’m going to next month. My friends and I are working on a podcast. Our goal is to discuss controversial political subjects with people who know something about it (such as economists and political scientists). We already have the script and the guest for our first episode. We’re just working on some technical details before releasing it.

Those are my concrete ECs, but there are other things I do that I don’t know if they could be considered ECs.

  • I study languages by myself. I speak French fluently and I learned it with apps, by watching YouTube videos, by reading (a lot) about grammar in the internet, by listening to music and podcasts, by reading things in french and by talking every week to a native french speaker that I met online. I began doing this in my first year of high school and I took quarantine as an opportunity to really take french further.
    And although my school does offer german classes, people in general don’t really speak it, because the level is kinda basic, to be honest. But I also take that as an opportunity to study by myself, because there’s a bunch of materials I can use for free. So I’m one of three students that are going to get a B1 certificate (I was supposed to get it last year, but it was canceled due to the pandemic). Most of my colleagues didn’t even do the A1 test.

  • I took quarantine as an opportunity to study music by myself as well. I play the piano since I was 8, and I began playing the guitar (alone) when I was 12, but I had never really gone far with it. So last year I really tried to study guitar more seriously, so now I can play some jazzy things (and a little bit of classical stuff). But my most important musical study last year was singing. I decided that I wanted to sing, so for over an year so far I’ve been practicing alone (reading about it, watching YouTube videos, doing exercises and recording myself), and I did make some good progress. So I think I should prepare a music portfolio for college.

Those are pretty much my ECs. I feel like I need to improve them, and to do that I’m applying to summer programs (such as YYGS) and I’ve been publishing texts in Medium. I believe writing could be a good EC if I published more and If I won any essay contests. One thing I did was to write the preface of a book that father wrote.
I’m also trying to participate in national olympics related to subjects I like, such as History, Economics and Linguistics.

About my awards, I’m not sure if I have many.

-I won an essay contest in Germany when I was there, but it was simply a contest between the 11 Brazilians participating, so I’m not sure if that’s much.

  • I won a silver medal in the National Olympics of Science.
  • I was twice elected class-president (before high school I was also class president for other two years).
  • I’m one of around 30 worldwide selected ambassadors for Yale Model United Nations.
  • I was twice selected best delegate in MUNs.

I guess that’s all about my profile. If you guys have any suggestions, It would be extremely helpful. Also, as I said, I’m new here, so please forgive me if this isn’t the write format to post that kind of question or something.

Thank you!

2

How much do you think your family can contribute financially each year towards costs of college?

3

Oh, I forgot this. I definitely depend on financial aid, like most people from my country that go to college in the United States. Here people don’t save money for college, so unless you’re a millionaire, if you’re brazilian you can’t afford going to college in the US if you don’t receive an almost full financial aid. But I don’t necessarily need a full financial aid from the university, because there are programs here that help us afford college abroad.

4

What is your GPA (or equivalent), and your standardized test scores?

You might want to look at the Common Data Set for each school – generally Section C, and specifically Section C1, Section C7, and Sections C9-C11. Section C1 give the number of students who applied, were admitted, and then enrolled for a given academic year; Section C7 gives the academic and non-academic admission factors considered, and the weight attached to them, by the school; and Sections C9-C11 give date on GPAs and standardized test scores for first-year students who matriculated at each school for any given year. Review of this information from the CDS from each school may give you some insights into your chances for admission.

5

So, are you from Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Caterina or Paraná?!

Here’s the thing: you are asking a US university to gift you ~$300,000 of education. There are many, many people- both in the US and around the world- who would like a free degree from Yale, Penn or Duke.

You are asking them to do that with one objective piece of information (your IELTS/TOEFL/DATS score), or possibly two (SAT/ACT, which are optional for 2022 entry), and one piece of evidence about your academic ability (your transcript). The rest is your essays, your LoRs, and ECs.

All three schools turn down more than 90% of applicants, and international students make up around 10% of those admitted. So, in round numbers, that’s a 1% acceptance rate.

Has your school ever sent a student to any of these schools? to any US school?
Will your advisor say that you are primus inter pares in your school, and back it up with examples of how extraordinary your are?

1 Like
6

Hello!
First of all, thank you for your answer. But I don’t understand why it is important to say the state where I come from.
And yes, I am aware that it’s extremely hard to get into these schools. But pointing that out doesn’t exactly give me a concrete notion of how to improve my profile (with all due respect, of course).
A good GPA and good test scores are definitely important, but that’s not, in most cases, what makes me different from other applicants.
I wanted to know, based on the information I presented, which are basically my ECs and honors, if those can be considered competitive and, if not, how I could make them better.
Of course, I don’t expect anybody here to predict if I am going to be accepted or not (which is impossible). I would simply like some feedback on how to improve my ECs and honors.

7

Thank you, I’ll take a look at those!

8

Since you are crushing on Williams College, look at Amherst College, too. Amherst College has Open Curriculum, but they are need blind to international students last time I checked. One recommendation I think is helpful is to follow schools on social media, specifically any diversity clubs or international student clubs. This way you may be able to reach out to a current student about the particulars of what it took to get accepted, what it is like, etc. You can also look at each school for professors that are from Brazil and try to connect if they offer something of interest to you. I have daughters at both schools and as you get further into the process and have any questions, feel free to reach out.

2 Likes
9

Are you looking to apply for classes starting in the fall of 2022? If you are, there really isn’t very much you can do to improve your profile or chances at this point. Now is the time to be working on essays and applications and putting effort into school work, not the time to be looking to add more things to your profile. ECs are evaluated in terms of length of commitment and accomplishments.

Your best bet at this point is looking for schools where you have a better chance of getting in and getting the financial aid you need. If you have an idea of what your family can afford to pay, then we can see if you need to be looking for merit aid (which will not be available at top ranking schools).

10

Hello!
No, actually I’m applying to classes starting in 2023. If everything goes right, my class is the class of 2027.

11

It isn’t! I was just guessing, b/c those 3 states have the strongest populations with German ancestry (we used to live in one of them).

National level awards are a really strong asset for you (if your silver medal was at the upper level), and being on the national olympiad team is good enough for Cambridge University, so if you are at that level you should lead with it! It is objective evidence of your academic qualifications (plus your LoR from that subject should be outstanding).

I am sorry that you felt my response was unhelpful, but these questions were relevant to being able to say more:

Has your school ever sent a student to any of these schools? to any US school?
Will your advisor say that you are primus inter pares in your school, and back it up with examples of how extraordinary your are?

What do you feel makes you different, from the point of view of a university looking at you as a possible member of the community?

From here. I see your strong MUN background- but it is not a strong differentiator, as there are just so many students who also have one. You show initiative in your learning things on your own (such as French, guitar, singing), but what does that bring to the university? Note that I am not being critical of you or your achievements! This is a tough process you are embarking on, and figuring out the hard questions can help you figure it out.

Probably not a helpful addition to your application.

12

Haha oh okay, sorry if I seemed rude! No, I’m not from any of those states.

13

Not at all, I didn’t think it was unhelpful, actually I felt that maybe I just dropped to much information without being too clear, and that’s on me.
And yes, my school has sent a few students to the US, but none of them to really competitive schools. And yes, I believe I can have some good recommendations from inside there. However, in fact I do have some concerns that, given that my school hasn’t sent people to really competitive schools, even if my profile can be considered outstanding inside my school, that doesn’t give me a very good idea of how outstanding it is in general.

14

That’s probably the most difficult question to answer. I’d say that I could appear different if I could be seen as a potential diplomat, both literally and metaphorically. Most people from my background who are interested in politics and IR usually have basically activities related to some kind of political engagement.
And I try not to be restricted to those. I also have a solid involviment with languages and a little bit with art. Those things are not only deeply connected to culture as a subject, but also to the idea of a certain sensitivity about dealing with the different.
So I try to give not only the impression that I have a political potential, but also that this potential is “unique” in the fact that I’m someone considerably sensitive to different realities, being able to serve as a good communicator and being someone who appreciates dealing with what’s different from me.
That’s how I wanted do develop myself, in order to become someone who deals with conflicts.
Definitely I’d have to write good essays about this.
I’m not saying that I consider myself a super special person or anything, I’m just pointing out a possible way of looking into my profile so I could be seen as different from other applicants interested in politics.

15

Haha yes! Amherst has also appeared on my radar. It seems like a fascinating place as well. I’m definitely gonna do some more research.
And thank you very much for your disponibility! Surely it would help a lot if some questions of mine could be answered once in a while.

16

That’s a good advice, thank you! If I may ask, what could “something of interest to me” be?

17

The short answer is that your chances at these schools are incredibly slim because you’re an international looking for the gift of a very expensive education. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t apply but there are thousands of very accomplished applicants rejected every year from all 3 of those schools.

1 Like
18

They may teach courses that may be of interest to you or have been interviewed or published articles, studies, books that are along the lines of a major you are thinking of pursuing.

19

Hi Gabriel, Your ECs are impressive but it’s your grades, class rank, and standardized test scores that will be considered first.

What is your GPA on a 10 point scale? Do you have a general idea of your rank in percentile terms?

Have you taken the TOEFL or equivalent? Are you planning to take the SAT or ACT? While elite schools are still test optional for this year, they might not be for next year. A strong SAT or ACT will also add context to your grades.

To answer your question, the overall chance of getting into any of these schools is less than 10% and closer to 5%. I know many students with perfect grades and test scores and varied ECs that got rejected from these schools. For international students your chances are much smaller than that.

Your chances at Duke improve if you are academically qualified and if you apply binding early decision but they will still be quite small.

As others have mentioned, if attending school in the US is the dream, apply to schools that meet full financial need and are need-blind for admissions. Some colleges are need-blind for domestic (US) students but not for international applicants. So read the fine print.

The challenge is that the private colleges and universities that offer full need based aid and are need blind are also the hardest to get into. So you should balance your list with schools that are more realistic and also affordable. There are also some schools, generally public state universities, that give automatic scholarships for certain grades/test scores. If those are of interest, let us know and I’m sure you will get many suggestions.

Also keep in mind transportations costs, health insurance costs (can be around $3,000 annually), and other incidentals for your budget.

Finally, as I’m sure you know, the federal university system in Brasil is excellent so you should have many fine choices there if you don’t get into an affordable college or university in the US.

Best of luck!

2 Likes
20

This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.