What are my chances (Yale; possible music double major)?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Yale University
1

Hello! It’s the summer before my senior year and I’ve been researching universities and preparing my application, and I’m wondering what my chances are with my scores/ECs/interests. I am interested in applying early action to Yale. Thank you if you choose to read all this :slight_smile:

I go to a large public high school in Minnesota, about 1600 kids.
Unweighted GPA is a 4.0.
ACT score is a 35 (I took in once last October) with an essay score of 11.
AP Language and Composition (5), AP US History (3), AP Literature and Composition (probably a 4/5), AP World History (probably a 3/4)
I plan to take the Biology E and Literature SAT Subject Tests in August.

My senior year classes are French II (online), Honors American Gov. and Politics, Honors Economics, Honors Anatomy and Physiology, Creative Writing, Drama as Literature, AP Calculus, Sterling Strings, Symphony Orchestra

Cross Country Running, 4 years
Orchestra, 4 years, Concertmaster
Sterling*, 2 years, Concertmaster
Pit Orchestra, 2016
Prom Quartet, 2 years
Open Mind student publication, President
Math Team, 4 years
History Day, 1 year (Taking A Stand for Gay Rights: Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld, advanced to state)
Speech, 1 year in high school, 2 years in middle school
DSYO Youth Symphony, 8 years, Co-concertmaster
DSYO Camerata, 2 years
St. Luke’s Volunteer in the Education Department, Summer 2016
Busking for charity on the Lakewalk with Stephen Bailey in fiddle classes, 2 years
All State Orchestra, 3 years
Hester Scholarship, 2015
Solo and Ensemble “Best in Show,” 2017
I’ve played the violin for 11 years with lessons and the piano for 1 with lessons.
During my summers (since about 7th grade) I’ve participated in local string camps (UMD music experience, Quartet Project) and I will be attending the Indiana University Jacobs School of Music Summer String Academy.

*Sterling Strings is a chamber orchestra performance group at my school. We do community outreach performances at nursing homes, business events, and elementary schools. In the month of December, we have tons of gigs; sometimes 3 per day. We memorize all of our music and ‘stroll’ around the room while we play. We’ve played at the Mall of America and in Chicago together.

I want to pursue a double major in music and in an academic/career-oriented field. Music is my life, but I’m also very excited to explore my other interests in depth. I’m particularly interested in nature and the botany, so I might try environmental studies, ecology, or some botanical science, with a focus on sustainability and conservation.

I’ve researched universities where I’ll have many academic and musical opportunities and plenty of flexibility. I plan to apply to Yale early action. Other universities I am considering include Princeton, Northwestern, University of Michigan, Harvard, McGill, University of Minnesota, Oberlin College, Brown, and Columbia.

A big part of my application is going to be music, which is hard to convey over text but I really love it! I’m currently working on the Wieniawski Violin Concerto in D minor and a Bach Partitia in D minor. I’m also working on a Bach Invention on the piano :slight_smile:

Thank you so much for reading this!

2

You have a shot. Be aware that even for someone with your excellent GPA/ACT, Yale is one of the most selective colleges in the world and the low odds make Yale a reach for everyone. Also keep in mind that hundreds of members of the freshman class at Yale every year are violinists of some sort or another so your violin related EC’s won’t make you stand out unless your talent level is fairly exceptional. The situation at HP and to a very slightly smaller degree BC are similar. UMich often turns down kids with your stats on the assumption they will enroll elsewhere. McGill seems like a match. Consider expanding your list and be sure to add more matches and some safeties.

3

Thank you for your advice :slight_smile:

4

I would say you have a very good shot at these schools! Not only are your academic qualifications good (on par with what these schools want to see) but your ECs are centralized around your passion for music and are also very outstanding. Most of your ECs have to do with music, which is very good, but you have also achieved things on a very high level, which is what colleges would like to see. Here is how I would chance you:

Yale (EA) - Low Reach (only if you apply EA though, since about half their incoming class is from EA)
Harvard - Reach (it is a reach for everyone)
Princeton - Reach (it is a STEM-oriented school, but because of that, they may want more music students)
Brown - Low Reach
Columbia - Reach (again, it is a STEM-oriented school, but they may want music students)
Northwestern - Reach
University of Michigan - High Match
McGill - Low Match/Safety
University of Minnesota - Safety
Oberlin College - Safety

An advice about applying: If your first choice is Yale in that you will DEFINITELY attend if you are accepted, then you should definitely apply EA since the application pool is smaller, yet they accept almost half of their incoming class from that pool. However, do note that the EA pool is generally more concentrated in athletes and legacy students. Also, generally the highest-qualified applicants (who have done some crazy things in high school and are VERY talented) usually apply EA, so I am not sure how that will affect your chances. I would still apply EA since if you don’t get in, you may get deferred to the RD pool where you’ll get a second chance. Also, I don’t know if you should indicate that you’re interest in double majoring in ecology since not too many of your ECs are centered around that. I would say just indicate your interest in music on the common app, and then you can always declare a double major in ecology once you are accepted if you would like. That’s all I have to say. Good luck!! I would love if you could chance me back here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1995754-chance-me-low-gpa-rank-cornell-rice-wash-u-ucla-etc-p1.html

5

You have a very good shot! Agreed, expand and add some safeties. Liberal arts colleges are tremendous for your interests- Bowdoin, Kenyon, Grinnell, and Lawrence are all great east coast picks. I believe Cornell has a large environmental/biological department as well, but they may not offer you the flexibility that you mentioned wanting.

Keep working hard!

6

Thank you so much for your advice

7

Thank you so much for your advice!

8

OP, IF you apply to Yale SCEA, UMichigan, UMinnesota, and McGill can be applied to at the same time. I don’t know whether McGill or UMinnesota suffer from Tuft’s Syndrome (what tdy123 thinks UMichigan does in not accepting students that they think will enroll elsewhere).

Fwiw, in DS’s case, applying to Yale and UMichigan got him accepted at both schools early. I would apply to both, since if rejected or deferred at Yale, having an acceptance at UMichigan will be reassuring. It’s obviously not a safety for anyone, but you are very qualified at UMichigan, and will also be seriously considered at Yale.

Good luck at this exciting time.

9

Thank you!

10

Feel free to message me about positioning your application - I was performing at a similar level when I applied, but didn’t apply as a music major.

11

Okay, thank you! I’m not sure how much I should focus my application on music, because I know that it’s not the only thing I’d want to study at university; however, I haven’t done very much EC-wise about my other interests. What do you think would be the best strategy- focusing everything on the music aspect, or expressing my other interests even though I don’t have ECs to back them?

12

@luciyh - there’s a lot of excellent advice from @ixnaybob, @gibby, and other parents on this thread whose kids have attended (or are still attending ) Yale. What they mostly say in their postings regarding extracurriculars is that its not the activity itself that matters most. It is instead the length of time that you have been committed to that activity, as well as the depth of your commitment . For example, like @exyalie15, I am also a musician (violinist) and am entering Yale as a first year (non-music major) student this fall. I have been playing my instrument for 13 years, have spent all my summers studying and performing classical music, and have also tried, like an athlete, to be a “credit” to my schools by participating in all-state conferences/performances. Like you, I had a very strong GPA and standardized test scores. I also have very long-standing community service engagement, and my high school club activities were an expression of my other long-standing academic and social interests. In other words, you should follow the excellent advice offered by other folks on this site and absolutely avoid “padding” your application with activities that don’t mean much to you. Instead, be authentic about your love of music and all the other things you do that fill your life with joy and purpose.

13

I graduated from Yale a few years ago, and didn’t play much at college (which is something I’ve come to really regret.). I played at a professional level prior to college though, and was also concertmaster of various youth orchestras, so I think our backgrounds are quite similar.

I wanted to add a few things though - first of all, Yale’s undergraduate music major isn’t performance focused, despite the incredibly strong graduate school.

Secondly, you obviously have a strong background in music - anyone can see that. However, there will be stronger applicants. When I was at Yale, there were many students who’d gone through Julliard and similar pre-college programs and were concert soloists. Many of these students aren’t actively involved in music once they get to college, but from an admissions perspective, they’re the ones who are the musical hooks at a place like Yale. Your achievements within music speak to dedication and excellence, but aren’t quite at the elite level to get you in without strength throughout your application. I don’t think you should dilute your extracurriculars, because what you’ve done on violin is great, but be mindful about how you position your academic achievements. Rather than just describing music as an art you’ve been working at for ages, I’d consider also showing how it works as a tool for you to contribute to your community.

14

@lucieyh and @exyalie15 - I know a lot of the musicians entering Yale this fall. The world of classical music, (as you already know!), is quite small. We have attended Meadowmount, Aspen, Julliard, MSM Pre-Colleges, etc., together, and I’m sure if you are attending the I.U. Jacobs School this summer, you are technically and musically comparable to this group. What I meant to say in my previous post is that Yale will look at your academic qualifications first and foremost - and will only ask the violin faculty to listen to and watch your musical video if you have first passed “academic muster.”

I also wanted to suggest a couple of schools that aren’t on your list, including Johns Hopkins/Peabody and Emory -
the latter for a music merit scholarship. Elizabeth Faidley teaches there now, and she is an amazing violinist. Since you will have to send videos to all these schools, my ranking of the difficulty of admission will vary from the ones others have provided above. Princeton, for example, has a performance major, but like Yale, will evaluate your academic and other accomplishments before evaluating your musical ones. Northwestern has a really great undergraduate music program and if you want to attend, you should ask your teacher(s) to reach out to their violin faculty over the summer to see if you can take a lesson in advance of your application. Brown does not have a strong classical music program but does have a very good jazz program. You seem like a good “fit” for Brown, given your music-oriented community service work, and I think that good classical musicians will have a bigger “hook” there than at Yale or Princeton.

In short, you don’t have to be a musical prodigy, or already have a professional career, to be a strong candidate for the non-conservatory programs you want to apply to. You are academically accomplished, sound like a thoughtful person and have demonstrated consistent interest in an art that is challenging and rewarding for you.

Best of luck to you!

15

“also showing how it works as a tool for you to contribute to your community.”

A very good suggestion regardless of whether musical talent and achievement, per se, constitutes a hook. My S basically played his instrument into Yale College, along with good stats. He had a solid audition tape, but he had not attended any pre-college music program. He is taking a performance class with a professor at the School of Music and performs a lot for the Yale community. There are plenty of performance opportunities at Yale.

16

I’ve written this before , but here it is again. . .

More specifically, my first impression of your EC list is that it’s unbelievable. Here’s why: If you have devoted as much time as you say you have to music – and I’m taking you at your word – then you don’t have very much time in the week to devote to the other activities you listed, such as

My advice: Pick one, two (at most three) of the above EC’s and list them on your Common AP, but omit the rest. Even if you did do everything on your EC list, you don’t have to list everything you ever did. Remember, sometimes “less is more.” Don’t believe me? Watch this video of a Stanford Admissions Officer discuss this student’s file; please watch to the end of the video where she discusses how this student’s EC’s are just not believable because there isn’t enough time in the week for the student to do everything they said they did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96XL8vBBB7o

17

I agree with @gibby here - from what I recall, I decided to only list 4 activities in the common app (there were 8 slots I think). It was a gamble (I thought), because pretty much everyone around me filled in all 8 - which I could have done, as can you too. But I knew the other 4 “things” were much less commitment, and if anything, I felt that they would detract from the overall theme/focus of my application.

My stats were fairly similar to yours (actually, your stats are even better in most regards). And it all worked out for me!

18

I just wanted to mention again what somebody noted above, which is that Yale’s music major does not include a performance track. While there are opportunities to take lessons for credit, participation in performance groups (like the YSO) are not for credit.

19

Yale’s undergrad music major is a B.A.

Also, upstream someone suggested this was not a reach. Yale is as much ofma reach as the other,schools on this applicants list. He or she is a strong applicant…but so are most of,the other 90% or so who don’t get accepted.

Also, upstream someone said something about having to attend Yale if applying EA. That is NOT true. It’s an EA acceptance, not an ED acceptance…and it’s not binding. This student can continue to apply to and get accepted elsewhere even IF accepted to Yale in the SCEA round.